997 Slow Crank (worse when hot)

[Francois]

Bunnings sell a kinchrome E-socket set and a few breaker bars too they are usually cheaper than the auto parts places on a few things.

You won't need any ramps or chocks for this particular job but they are handy to have for future ones. 

Thanks Dan. So that's a question I had; are you able to access & remove aero-drag plate, the cable nuts and thread the new cable in without raising the car?

Bunnings sell a kinchrome E-socket set

yup! $36

Was planning on getting that one indeed.

[dan_189]

Good question, having only taken apart a 996 I can't see any reason for a 996/7 to be off the ground to replace the starter + cable - which is what you're doing right? 

[Francois]

Good question, having only taken apart a 996 I can't see any reason for a 996/7 to be off the ground to replace the starter + cable - which is what you're doing right? 

Yes, I would be replacing: 

- A/S Cable (manual transmission), Part Nr: 997 607 019 03
- Starter motor , Part Nr: 996 604 103 00

Both parts circled in red.

[dan_189]

No need for the car to be off the ground.

1. Remove airbox

2. Remove plenum

3. Remove starter

4. Remove cable (off alternator and re route etc.)

5. Reverse steps for installation 

[Francois]

No need for the car to be off the ground.

1. Remove airbox

2. Remove plenum

3. Remove starter

4. Remove cable (off alternator and re route etc.)

5. Reverse steps for installation 

Sorry for the long reply (DIYing some lasagna in parallel )

Do I need to remove the A/C compressor to make room, or not needed? 

Does the alternator need to be removed in order to access the harness's nut?

I think there are some steps missing between 3 and 4:

Underneath the car: removal of the aero-drag reduction plastic cover and removal of two 10mm nuts holding the cable.

How hard is it to rethread the new cable?

[Francois]

Just ordered a lot of Porsche Parts!

- Brand new starter motor: 996 604 103 00, Brand: 'Dansk'

- Cable Harness: 997 607 019 03

- 6 Spark Plugs: 999 170 223 90, Bosch FGR5KQE0

- Polyrib Belt: 996 102 151 66

- Other misc parts (Window seals, air/oil/pollen filters for next year's maintenance)

Anyone heard of 'Dansk' starter motors??

[dan_189]

Sorry for the long reply (DIYing some lasagna in parallel )

Do I need to remove the A/C compressor to make room, or not needed? 

Does the alternator need to be removed in order to access the harness's nut?

I think there are some steps missing between 3 and 4:

Underneath the car: removal of the aero-drag reduction plastic cover and removal of two 10mm nuts holding the cable.

How hard is it to rethread the new cable?

Yes there are a few things missing that don't apply to the 996,

You have to remove the alternator as the cable attaches to the back of it, as for the AC compressor this might be 997 specific as the 996 has the jumper box that either needs the AC compressor to be moved or you can heat the box and it pops off. The 997 doesn't have this box.

[Francois]

Early Xmas cringles - got some parts in the mail this morning (but no lollies)...

A new starter motor, *the* cable, a new belt (I need to remove the belt for this job, so good opportunity to change it), spark plugs (next job) and a few other parts not pictured for other restorations (other jobs):

Still waiting for a few tools, and show will be on...

[quasio]

if ur going to do plugs..  u might as well do the coils as well.

also.. drivers rear plug/coil.. have fun  

also can i ask where you bought the gear from? pricing good?

 

Edited 18September, 2017 by quasio

[Francois]

if ur going to do plugs..  u might as well do the coils as well.

also.. drivers rear plug/coil.. have fun  

also can i ask where you bought the gear from? pricing good?

Howdy,

Yeah, not too sure about the coils, you might be right... I was thinking of doing them, but apparently if they don't look damaged, they don't require to be changed.

But you've got a point, if they look damaged when I actually remove them, would be good to have a spare set or at least a few...

Pricing-wise, well it's hard to get a cheap starter motor (including shipping).

My full order breaks down to this:

New cable: $147

Starter: $248 (not a Bosch)

Belt: $34

Bosch plugs, oil filter, oil sump crush washer, air filter, pollen filter: $145

Window gaskets, L/R: $100

Shipping: $100

-> Total of $774 incl. shipping. Payment in GBP to design911.co.uk. Shipping was very fast (3-4 days). What are your thoughts?

[quasio]

yeh most of my stuff i get from design911 as well, exchange rate is good for the moment. 

US is getting a little cheaper again, and sometimes amazon can send parts over. but i do prefer design911, as the brands are a little more known. Other options are FCP euro, they have some lifetime guarantee thing now, unsure how it works if you're in Aus, but they'll replace anything, including consumables!  like worn brakes and stuff apparently.

(haven't tried)

 

Yeh u'll probably want to change the coils too, just coz once u've done the job, u dont really want to do it again, coz it's a pain in the A$$. Note the coils i got from design911 were a different shape to the originals, but they come with the new bolts, which are a torx head (8 spanner works) instead of the allen key bolt. seem to work fine. 

[Francois]

yeh most of my stuff i get from design911 as well, exchange rate is good for the moment. 

US is getting a little cheaper again, and sometimes amazon can send parts over. but i do prefer design911, as the brands are a little more known. Other options are FCP euro, they have some lifetime guarantee thing now, unsure how it works if you're in Aus, but they'll replace anything, including consumables!  like worn brakes and stuff apparently.

(haven't tried)

Yeh u'll probably want to change the coils too, just coz once u've done the job, u dont really want to do it again, coz it's a pain in the A$$. Note the coils i got from design911 were a different shape to the originals, but they come with the new bolts, which are a torx head (8 spanner works) instead of the allen key bolt. seem to work fine. 

Cool, thanks for the tip... I doubt they would replace used brake pads and discs though... :-)

Argh $h1te... maybe I will order a half dozen coils then... 

[Francois]

FYI... either way, they're not cheap:

6 Coils (Beru)

Design911: AUD $326 inclusive of shipping.

FCP-Euro: AUD $350 inclusive of shipping.

MasterParts: AUD $478 inclusive of shipping.

RosePassion: AUD $436 exclusive of shipping.

Edited 18September, 2017 by Francois
frenglish

[quasio]

Cool, thanks for the tip... I doubt they would replace used brake pads and discs though... :-)

Argh $h1te... maybe I will order a half dozen coils then... 

Apparently.. they do!.. i know it's weird, but it specifically gives that as an example..

 

[Francois]

Hi Guys :-) Just an update on this job to keep you posted...

To be honest - the first attempt - I failed - (sh*t in my pants actually and abandonned!). After having removed almost everything I had to remove, I was a bit surprised by how far the starter motor and the 'infamous' cable were located and how hard the access was. Scared of doing something wrong, such as dropping and losing a part or not being able to put everything back together properly, I stopped and reassembled. I was happy when the car started again afterwards, although I hadn't fixed anything.

During the weeks, that followed, I kept remembering my failure and the slow crank problem was getting worse to the point as the car refused to start last saturday after a quick wash... I had spent quite a lot of money on the parts and tooling alone, so I prepared myself for a new attempt. This time, I knew what it looked like "in real" and not through an Internet DIY and what the difficulties were: distance to the parts, difficulty to access/manipulate and - in my case - the fear of screwing things up.

On the following day (Sunday) night, I started the work and spent about 6 hours on it and was able to perform the dissassembly and replacement of the two parts: starter and cable. The following night, I spent another 2 hours finishing off (reattaching the

Followed a few DIYs and details that I had been reading over and over in the past couple of weeks.

In a nutshell:

- E-brake engaged, gear engaged, disconnect the battery, raise the car (I used ramps), chock front wheels and make sure you are working safely (isolate battery cables, chock front wheels, I even placed concrete blocks under the car in case the ramps were to fail...).

- From the engine bay: remove airbox, throttle body, plenum, AOS hoses, power-steering reservoir

- Remove the alternator (nightmare... Note: Pelican parts DIY article has good tips for this)

- Unbolt the A/C compressor, so it can be shifted aside (no need to remove it!!)

- Disconnect old cable (to replace) from alternator and old starter motor (also to replace)

- Remove the 2 safety nuts from the starter motor with a super long extension (universal joints and wobble extensions are priceless for this)

- Remove the starter motor by shifting it out slowly, install the new one (a pain to get the screws back in...)

- Remove the 2 clips holding the old cable (a nightmare, but stick to it - it is possible) and important so you can reattach the new one like it should be.

- From underneath the car, remove the two rear-most aerodynamics plates about a half dozen nuts and about 8 torx screws

- Locate the cable coming from the engine bay (more or less in the middle of the car), open the little "door" and disconnect (nut) the electrical connection. Important to do this before removing the other nuts. remove the other nuts along the cable all the way up to the bottom of the engine bay.

- Replace the old cable with the new one. I firmly attached the new cable to the old with some tie-wraps and pulled the old one from underneath the car. This guided the new cable through.

- Reattach the 2 infamous clips (most annoying/difficult part of the job), bolt the new cable and work backwards to reinstall everything back in.

- Refill your power-steering reservoir with pentosin (CHF11s, replaced by CHF202 - both can be mixed btw), reconnect the battery, hope for the best and turn the key!

A few pictures of the nightmare:

 

Only the upper part of the starter motor can be seen in the back (notice the empty space on the left where the alternator was): 

Old started and (engine bay side of) old cable:

A few parts, that might need to go back in :-)

The shiny black tube contains the new cable. The 'unbelievable' clips are before and after the 90° angle:

The rotated A/C compressor:

 

And the result....

Before (hot start after a quick wash) - not the worse case:

 

After (4th hot start with parking lights on): 

 

As a take-away, of course, I'm extremely happy with this operation. All went well and the problem is solved. Happy with the accomplishment, being relatively inexperienced in his field but keen to learn!

I was sore for the couple of days following this epic!

Happy to help anyone who needs this done as well! 

[Raven]

Nice work on the fix..........yours was really bad didn,nt want to crank at all mine is nothing like that .......good work 

[Francois]

Nice work on the fix..........yours was really bad didn,nt want to crank at all mine is nothing like that .......good work 

Cheers, mate. 

I was lucky enough to diagnose the correct problem and save $300 on a new battery, which wasn't the problem. Battery is perfectly OK.

[Raven]

for moment I can live with mine it only seems to do it ever know and then .............these sorts of threads are good in the way that owners get to the source of the problem if you took the car to a dealer who knows how many $thousands it would cost you ..glad it all worked out 

[911 Snake]

Informative thread!

I'm in the process of having my workshop change the cable, starter and bolt this week after they found a fair bit of corrosion!!

Recently I've been experiencing a slow crank and as it turns out, not enough volts getting to my battery (only 6 months old).

After 5 days of not driving last week (coupled with only a few short 10 min trips the week before) my battery was completely dead.

Hoping this fixes the issue!

[dan_189]

49 minutes ago, 911 Snake said:

Informative thread!

I'm in the process of having my workshop change the cable, starter and bolt this week after they found a fair bit of corrosion!!

Recently I've been experiencing a slow crank and as it turns out, not enough volts getting to my battery (only 6 months old).

After 5 days of not driving last week (coupled with only a few short 10 min trips the week before) my battery was completely dead.

Hoping this fixes the issue!

It should, I had the same issue where the cable was preventing my battery from charging. 

[Francois]

7 hours ago, 911 Snake said:

Informative thread!

I'm in the process of having my workshop change the cable, starter and bolt this week after they found a fair bit of corrosion!!

Recently I've been experiencing a slow crank and as it turns out, not enough volts getting to my battery (only 6 months old).

After 5 days of not driving last week (coupled with only a few short 10 min trips the week before) my battery was completely dead.

Hoping this fixes the issue!

Difference was night and day on mine, I'm pretty sure it will be the same for you.

How much did they quote for the job, if I may ask??

[911 Snake]

13 hours ago, Francois said:

Difference was night and day on mine, I'm pretty sure it will be the same for you.

How much did they quote for the job, if I may ask??

Hopefully that's the case!

I'm getting a few other things done as well as a major service so all up will be quite a lot. 3k + inc major service

[Francois]

Hopefully that's the case!
I'm getting a few other things done as well as a major service so all up will be quite a lot. 3k + inc major service

Doesn't sound that bad if you're getting all of that. The starter and cable alone will take 4/5 hours at least on a 997 for a really quick mechanic. For me it's more like a 7-10 hour job [emoji23]

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get a great car in return [emoji4][emoji106]


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[911 Snake]

 

15 hours ago, Francois said:

 

Doesn't sound that bad if you're getting all of that. The starter and cable alone will take 4/5 hours at least on a 997 for a really quick mechanic. For me it's more like a 7-10 hour job

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get a great car in return


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Picked it up this morning and definitely noticeable when turning the key! Car feels fresher/tighter after new plugs, filters and oil change too. 

Placebo probably.. just like a sh!t, shower and shave the next morning after a big night - the hangover is still there but you do feel better! 

[bear924]

I had a slow start issue on my 996.1 gt3. Decided to replace the starter only and now car turns over much better. Would suggest anyone with start issue to check battery, check power distribution cable (positive from battery to firewall entry) for corrosion  (mine had none).. then replace starter. I'd only replace the cable if problem persisted after that point or cable connectors were loose.