'02 Boxster S won't start - looking for any insights from a video of the car cranking

[TrumpyAl]

I removed the throttle body to check that it's opening slightly while cranking and it is.

I need to double check these plugs but got distracted over the weekend. I've ordered a Durametric unit in the hope that it pull out something worthwhile logged by the car's brains.

What distracted me - I began my dabbling in the art of paintless dent removal. I have to say, it's very rewarding! I've not really attempted the final painstaking part of completely levelling out the lumps and bumps, but what I'm greatly encouraged by what I've managed to do so far.

Feature dent progress pics below. I had to stop at this point as I was running out of daylight and I've decided that I prefer having daylight to use for this job. But you can perhaps get the gist of how satisfying it is to gradually pull something back to where it's meant to be.

Before the first pull...


After the first pull.


I then switched from a pops-a-dent type screw puller, to a slide hammer approach, hence the different hardware glued to the panel, ready for pulling.




Getting there!

[TrumpyAl]

I've spoken to the service manager at Porsche Centre Doncaster and he's saying differently to the guy at Melbourne - he says that the immobaliser will let the car crank, but won't let it start.

I've purchased a PIWIS / Durametric code reader (it arrived with the software disc cracked!!!!) and when I get that working I hope to see something of use.  If it's the alarm system stopping the vehicle starting the I'd expect to see a code.

On an upside, the seats came up very nicely with the leather rejuvinator so that's something I guess!

[P-Kay]

Have a look as I'm pretty sure their software is available for download on their website.

[TrumpyAl]

Have a look as I'm pretty sure their software is available for download on their website.

Thanks, it turns out that I bought a pirated copy of an old version of the Durametric.

I'm waiting for pricing on shipping for the genuine article.  I'm hoping to save some money by buying it out of asia rather than from the US.

[Russ]

I think you'll find you need a 'real' PIWIS (Laptop with genuine software and Bosch KTS) to do any of the security functions like key programming - the basic durametric won't do it.

and i'm pretty sure to do it you need a code from Porsche after you provide them your VIN (at least that's the case for the later model cars anyway)

might be easier to get it done at a workshop with a real PIWIS or the dealer 

[TrumpyAl]

I think you'll find you need a 'real' PIWIS (Laptop with genuine software and Bosch KTS) to do any of the security functions like key programming - the basic durametric won't do it.

and i'm pretty sure to do it you need a code from Porsche after you provide them your VIN (at least that's the case for the later model cars anyway)

might be easier to get it done at a workshop with a real PIWIS or the dealer 

Cheers Russ, that's my understanding also.  The idea was to hopefully be able to diagnose the cause, not to reprogram keys etc.  But for $500, it's too risky as I may well not be able to aceive anything at all with it and resell can't be too great on a Durametric with only two VIN's left on it.

I'll double-check eveything once I have time to get back to the car (have been interstate), but unless I've missed something obvious it seems that I'll need to get a workshop to sort this out.  Can anyone recommend an indie in Melbourne?  My father-in-law has an indie contact but the feedback is that he loathes Boxsters so I'm not to keen on that option.

[tazzieman]

Cars are now cleverer than humans!

http://www.brookwell.co.uk/the-complete-guide-to-crank-starting-your-series-land-rover/

Why are there no simple , logical DIY fix algorithms for these modern cars?

It's always a drawn out trial and error process from what I read on the web.

[Russ]

Cars are now cleverer than humans!

http://www.brookwell.co.uk/the-complete-guide-to-crank-starting-your-series-land-rover/

Why are there no simple , logical DIY fix algorithms for these modern cars?

It's always a drawn out trial and error process from what I read on the web.

as someone who's spent an entire day trying to get a 50's Land Rover to start, I am thankful for modern day (non-british) electrics and computers

[tazzieman]

as someone who's spent an entire day trying to get a 50's Land Rover to start,

You probably didn't play with boxes of matches as a kid!

I'll take that 50s LR off your hands 

 

Trunk and branches just need leaves

Oh noes! Car has a computer! Arrrgh!

[TrumpyAl]

I finally got back to this and ordered a Durametric unit.  Seems like a nice little unit, and the software also seems first rate.

Looks like an open and shut case re: won't start.  Hope to post good news as soon as I can source a crank angle sensor.

[firstone]

Well done

[TrumpyAl]

Porsche - $415

aPorsche Apart - $285

Masterparts - $290

Rockauto - $170

 

Surprisingly difficult to get my hands on a reasonably priced crank angle sensor!

In the end it was so much cheaper to order from the US I'm prepared to wait.

[TrumpyAl]

I replaced the CPS a few days ago and *sob* nothing changed.

I've had it almost starting and it seems like it was flooded.  But removing the fuel pump relay and cranking until there's no more fuel being delivered still, at no point, has the engine running.  If it was simply over-fuelling then I'd have expected it to fire as it transitioned from too rich to too lean.

The plug that I pulled sure seemed like it as getting both fuel and spark.

I'm somewhat stumped at this point.  I'm resisting the urge to throw a key/immobilizer/DME set at it to get a known combo in there.

[Redracn]

Time to go back to basics. If you have fuel in close to the correct amount and you have spark and you have adequate compression and the spark is delivered at the correct point it should run. 

Simple fuel check is wet plugs after cranking that dry quickly. But you may still have a fuel problem as the amount is wrong. Have you checked All cylinders. You would struggle to start it on 3cylinders cold. 

Check spark by putting a plug into the coil grounding the plug body and cranking whicle wathcing the plug gap. Do not touch or hold plug or coil while doing this. Stand well back. Check all cylinders. One or both banks of the ignition might not be grounded correctly/broken wire.

The fact the ECU is trying to spark and fuel indicates it is relatively happy with the crank and cam sensors. (Did the Crank sensor error stay away after you changed it?)

Compression test the engine or ensue the starter struggles 3 times per revolution.

You need a timing light to check spark position. 

If you have fuel and spark then the security system is NOT trying to prevent the engine from running. 

Other obscure issues like camshaft jumping teeth or the drive sprocket slipping on the crank, damage to cam or crank position sensor trigger wheels or the movement of them to the crank or cam. Bad sensor reading causing incorrect fuel calculation. Check the engine sensor with the Durametric also check the fuel pulse width when cranking and the cranking rpm. Blocked/jammed injectors or very badly contaminated with poor spray pattern.

The ecu could have other diagnostic information that teh Durametric is not able to display.

 

 

[Russ]

Time to go back to basics. If you have fuel in close to the correct amount and you have spark and you have adequate compression and the spark is delivered at the correct point it should run. 

Simple fuel check is wet plugs after cranking that dry quickly. But you may still have a fuel problem as the amount is wrong. Have you checked All cylinders. You would struggle to start it on 3cylinders cold. 

Check spark by putting a plug into the coil grounding the plug body and cranking whicle wathcing the plug gap. Do not touch or hold plug or coil while doing this. Stand well back. Check all cylinders. One or both banks of the ignition might not be grounded correctly/broken wire.

The fact the ECU is trying to spark and fuel indicates it is relatively happy with the crank and cam sensors. (Did the Crank sensor error stay away after you changed it?)

Compression test the engine or ensue the starter struggles 3 times per revolution.

You need a timing light to check spark position. 

If you have fuel and spark then the security system is NOT trying to prevent the engine from running. 

Other obscure issues like camshaft jumping teeth or the drive sprocket slipping on the crank, damage to cam or crank position sensor trigger wheels or the movement of them to the crank or cam. Bad sensor reading causing incorrect fuel calculation. Check the engine sensor with the Durametric also check the fuel pulse width when cranking and the cranking rpm. Blocked/jammed injectors or very badly contaminated with poor spray pattern.

The ecu could have other diagnostic information that teh Durametric is not able to display.

all of this, but agree with the stuff in bold - there's a few things the 'home' version of the durametric can't do, that the pro one can (but then again PIWIS can do more still)

anyone know what voltage the ignition system of a Boxster is? it's not one of the high discharge ones that can kill you is it? I'd be finding this out before shorting plugs against things

[TrumpyAl]

Thanks gents, I feel so in the dark with this car - I mean I don't even know what a boxster engine normally sounds like when cranking!

The first test I did was for spark and it was sparking on the cylinder that I tested, though I recall thinking that the spark did sort of come and go if that makes sense - at the time I put it down to the awkwardness of grounding it.  I will make something up to make this easier and then check all cylinders (I hadn't thought of that).  Perhaps I'll start by pulling all plugs to see if they all look the same - they did when I removed the last set, but it is easier to read new plugs.

The second test I did was to disconnect the fuel pump relay and use aerostart to eliminate fueling issues.  It didn't make any difference.

Cranking RPM was around 750 if I recall correctly - I'll double check.  I can also plot the rpm against time in a graph and see if there's a pattern that might be interesting.  I may also just confuse myself with that.  Checking the injector pulse width is a good idea, though I've forgotten what sort of a figure I should expect (it's been a decade and a half since I left the industry) so I'll post it on here in the hopes that someone can enlighten me.

So, whilst I do need to re-confirm all the things that I "know" from previous tests (PARTICULARLY THAT ALL CYLINDERS ARE BEHAVING THE SAME), I'm thinking that this leaves ignition timing and cam timing.  If it was a Windsor V8 i'd have that confirmed in about 15 minutes but not so easy with this thing.

It's a pity that my only remaining contact in the industry is three hours (and a lot of towing $$$'s) away in Shepparton.

I might take a day off next week and get organised.  Hell, I might just take the whole week off.

[TrumpyAl]

Well I didn't take the week off, but I did take the morning off and pulled the plugs.  They were new when I put them in, so reading them is relatively easy even though the engine isn't starting.

The front two cylinders are both very black and sooty - so they have spark, and presumably too much fuel.  The cylinder that I've previously checked for spark was one of these two.

Two of the other cylinders, one on each side, are almost completely clean and smelled very strongly of fuel - so fuel but no spark.

The remaining two are what I'd call normal, though looking at new plugs in a car that doesn't start isn't really a normal situation for me.

I did use an Ohm meter to do quick test of the coils on one side but that was a tad confusing - they all had zero resistance between the outside two terminals and infinite resistance between all other terminals.  Anyhone know how to bench test them?

If not, I'll find some more time and test each coil pack on on the plug that I've tested previously.  Hopefully a couple of them are dead and replacing them will get the poor little thing running again.

As for the pitch black two?  I might just leave that until the engine is running.  If I can get it running on four cylinders then I'll be in much more familiar terrority.  First thought is gummy fuel from sitting around too long jamming the injectors open - but that's just a wild guess.

[Redracn]

Some combustion activity is good news. Spark should have no trouble jumping 2cm.

Storing a car with any alcohol in the fuel is bad news for the fuel system in general, pumps and injectors in-particular.

[TrumpyAl]

Thanks Red.  I managed to find a similar tool.

All coils are firing well, over a 2cm gap, so I'm going to turn my attention to the fuel system.