'02 Boxster S won't start - looking for any insights from a video of the car cranking

[TrumpyAl]

Hi All

I've purchased this as a project car and am working through it's issues one-by-one.  The ignition switch had never been changed and was misbehaving badly so that was easy (I found it was cheaper through Volkswagen than Audi, I'm in Australia).

It's a tiptronic.  Slight weeping from RMS.  Slight coolant leak from the radiator outlet (inlet) on the engine, the one on the Intake side of the car.

However, whilst the car now behaves normally as far as electrics goes, it won't start so I've made a video.  My hope is that it's near-start symptoms might be familiar to someone who's had the same problem and can perhaps point me in the right direction.

As you can see, it kicks and skips, but won't start.

It has spark.  And I took all the plugs out and cleaned them.

It certainly smells like it has fuel.  I couldn't hear the fuel pump so I jumped the relay and whilst the pump noise was very reassuring, no change in behaviour.

I've tried Aerostart but it made only a slight improvement but no chance of a start.

It has under 80k kms (less than 50k miles) on the odometer.

I have only a generic ODBII tool and it usually has no codes, and occasionally has one 'unknown' code.

No scary noises at all from the engine while it cranks.

Coolant looks normal.  Engine oil does too, though it needs changing.

Service history unknown.

I have only the valet key.

It's my first Porsche and I'm verrrrry much looking forward to the first drive.

Any insights?

Thanks in advance!  Al.

[Stew F]

Kinda sounds like a fuel issue to me.   When you took the plugs out were they wet?  Were they sooty or clean?  Might pay to try to start it then pull one again.  Definitely got spark? At the plugs? 

 

What is this coolant stuff you speak of?

[ByronBayChris]

I place my vote for dodgy wiring from your alarm system has melted. Mine (94/911) did that last week. Similar symptoms. 

Check alarm wiring

[TrumpyAl]

Thanks for the responses gents, it's much appreciated!

 

Kinda sounds like a fuel issue to me.   When you took the plugs out were they wet?  Were they sooty or clean?  Might pay to try to start it then pull one again.  Definitely got spark? At the plugs? 

 

What is this coolant stuff you speak of?

Plugs were wet yes, and sooty.  Yes, I had a plug out and it was sparking at the plug.  I might pull another plug now and see what there is to see - good thinking.  Actually, I might pull the whole set and pay more attention that the spark is strong and consistent.

 

I place my vote for dodgy wiring from your alarm system has melted. Mine (94/911) did that last week. Similar symptoms. 

Check alarm wiring

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do so.

It's a pity that I'm not more familiar with the car as I'd be able to pick up odd sounds that might indicate a slipped cam timing etc.  I'm assuming that IMS failuer bad enough to stop the car starting would make an almighty racket(???)

[Mike D'Silva]

Pretty sure it's not IMS related.. I am thinking it would be good to make friends with a porsche dealer to read the codes? Don't the modules in the cars, need to "talk to each other" in order to operate?

[firstone]

The valet key won't start the car. You need the transponder key.

You said new ignition?

New key?

[TrumpyAl]

The valet key won't start the car. You need the transponder key.

You said new ignition?

New key?

New ignition switch.   No, the key came with the car and works on the drivers, the ignition barrel and the console lid lock so I can't imagine that i's a new one.

All ponderings welcome thanks!

[firstone]

Yeah the key will work to turn the lock but the transponder unlocks the code for starting. 

So you need an ignition key from porsche and have it coded by them to your car. 500ish

[Redracn]

I am not familiar with the 02 boxster but here are my thoughts on the problem.

I had a similar sounding problem many years ago in a electrically simple car. The ignition switch had failed and would only power the ignition during cranking. As soon as the key returned to the run position the ign power was cut due to a faulty contact in the switch. Modern cars are a bit more complex and this type of fault may not possible.

If you have acess to a timing light you can check that the spark is present after you release the starter motor. Also the timing can be checked but it sounds like it is fairly right. 

I assume the video is with the main fuel pump relay bridged? 

If you are game enough just hold the starter on a bit longer. Might make a bit of noise but it has an overrun clutch and as long as you do not rev it to high or do it for more than a few seconds there will be no damage. This test will show that a loss of ign or fuel pressue after stopping cranking is the problem. Or the computer might decide to move from cranking mode to run mode by itself turning of the starter automatically.

I would expect that with a key issue the car would not fire at all or even crank.

 

 

 

[firstone]

I have the 01 boxster. I'll test the valet key in the ignition tonight. I would have thought it wouldn't turn over either. 

[Redracn]

I would expect a valet key to operate the car and maybe at a reduced performance/rpm limit but not acess gloveboxes etc. no point having a key that wont allow the car to be moved. 

[Russ]

so you kept your barrel/key but changed the switch? yeah that's not going to start

you need to program the ignition switch to your car, and then your keys are tied to your ECU and the VIN of the car, the keys need to be programmed to work otherwise you may as well be starting it with a screwdriver.

it's a dealer visit, as they're the only ones with the codes that go with the VIN to go into PIWIS to program the key

[firstone]

Well I just tried the valet key and my car started. The transponder key was 20m away in the house.

I checked the manual and it's not clear about whether or not it will start the car. It says, " it will work on all locks on the car".

It does however in a separate paragraph say, " the transponder key unlocks the immobilizer". 

Perhaps my immobilizer is disconnected? Hmmm

Anyhoo, I'm glad you brought it up.

Sorry to muddy the waters.lol

[TrumpyAl]

so you kept your barrel/key but changed the switch? yeah that's not going to start

you need to program the ignition switch to your car, and then your keys are tied to your ECU and the VIN of the car, the keys need to be programmed to work otherwise you may as well be starting it with a screwdriver.

it's a dealer visit, as they're the only ones with the codes that go with the VIN to go into PIWIS to program the key

The ignition switch is just a dumb switch though?

It seems weird to me that it would crank and spark, but not start if it's the car's anti-theft that's the problem.  It's not likely that anyone's going to be able to answer what happens when you try to hotwire a 986 without the correct key so werid or not - I think I should touch base with a Porsche dealer.  My father-in-law knows an independant Porsche restorer so that's another option if Porsche cant' shed any light on it for me.

Thanks for all the info guys, keep it coming and I'll be sure to update once I have an answer...

Or the computer might decide to move from cranking mode to run mode by itself turning of the starter automatically.

 

 

 

Interestingly, I was reading the owners manual this morning and it mentions that the first time you try to start the car the computer will automatically stop cranking once it fires.  For any subsequent attempts the computer will let you decide when to stop cranking.

[TrumpyAl]

I just spoke to Ivor in the service department at Porsche Centre Melbourne and was blown away at how willing he was to advise me.  If that was a Ford dealer they'd have offered no help at all other than suggesting a tow operator to get the car to them.

Ivor has confirmed that the dash light won't come on at all if the key is not recognised and I would have trouble getting the key out again(!).

So it seems that we're ok there.  He likes my plan to replace the plugs ($100 for double platinums) and also suggested that I drain the tank and put in fresh fuel as I have no idea how long it's been stationary.

He warned me against using Aerostart again.

My gut feeling is good on pursuing the the bad-fuel angle so I'll be taking his advice ASAP.  If you consider that the ignition switch was so bad that the car hasn't been running so other failures are unlikely - bad fuel makes the most sense.  Not a perfect theory but eliminating bad fuel is cheap and easy so I'm keen to do it.

[TrumpyAl]

What is this coolant stuff you speak of?

It took me three days but I finally got the joke here!!!  hehe

Well I drained the fuel and replaced it with 10 litres of fresh 98.  I also put in the new double platinum pugs that arrived yesterday and....no change!

I'll regroup tomorrow after a snooze and go over things afresh.  Thanks again gents.

[firstone]

Old fuel makes sense. How do you get the old fuel out of the line from tank to rail though?

More reading on the valet key on the forums. The frunk and trunk won't open. I feel safe now.lol

[Redracn]

The fuel system will be a circulating one so only a few seconds to refresh whats in the lines and injector rails. The injector on the other hand will take quite a bit to clear of the old fuel as what is in them must be injected into the engine before new fuel can enter the injector. 

[TrumpyAl]

Yep - I bridged the pump relay and ran it for 30 seconds or so to flush the stale fuel from the line and rail back into the tank.  When it didn't start after that I repeated the process, for another 30 second(ish).

After each attempt, rather than leave those new plugs soaking wet, I'm removing the fuel pump relay and cranking it for a while to pump some fresh air through and evaporate the fuel.

I do hope that it's just that I've not tried long enough - it's a happy thought!

I should add, that when I say I 'drained' the old fuel - I actually mean that I pumped the old fuel out of the tank by attaching a hose to the tank outlet and letting the bridged fuel pump do the work.  As the battery is out of the car so I can access the fuel tank underneath it (love the engineering on these cars, really nice to poke around a Porsche) I had jumper cables in hand and was starting and stopping the flow by touching the -ve jumper lead onto the battery.  Worked quite nicely.  I hope the mower tolerates the stale fuel as I have to do something with it!

There actually is a change, the car was previously cranking and regularly skipping as it would almost fire, but now while it's cranking it skips constantly if that makes sense?

I'll get another 10 litres of fuel this evening just to be sure that the ratio of stale fuel to fresh fuel is favourable enough that I can rule out fuel as a contributing factor.  Then I need to check out that alarm/cental locking/whatever it is module methinks.

[firstone]

Me too now. I nearly bought a new spare transponder key. 

I'll let you know what I find out about the immobilizer. 

[TrumpyAl]

Well my Boxster is now referred to as The Cheeky Imp - the additional fresh fuel made no difference!

So it's was time to get back to basics, but I'm not in the mood tonight.

So I inspected the under-seat Central Locking unit instead and it all looked 100% clean to me.  As did the adjacent wiring.  Carpet was dry so it appears that the horrid tape that was covering the splits in the rear window was doing the job.

Bonus pic of the double Platinum NGK plugs that I put in.

 

 

As I mentioned, I wasn't in the mood tonight for problem solving so I started on the leather.  Soaked the steering wheel and seats in Leatherique.  LOVE this stuff.

Sorry for the bad quality pic, but you can see where the 'oil' has already soaked into the crevices in the background.  This is verrrry thirsty leather so I'm hoping for an amazing transformation once it's nourished and clean.

Back to the main game tomorrow!

[jnr356]

air flow sensor

[firstone]

Porsche centre Gold Coast says the valet key has a transponder to start the car but limits frunk n trunk n fuel cap unlock.

MAF sensor clean?

[TrumpyAl]

air flow sensor

Cheers - I think I recall reading that disconnecting the air mass meter is an effective way of diagnosing it.  ie if disconnecting makes the car run better then it's faulty.

This seems to imply that the car should start and run with it disconnected, which it doesn't.  Well, it didn't - I'll re-check this now that I've refreshed the fuel and replaced the plugs.

[Redracn]

Also along the lines of the mass flow sensor is an air leak between the MAF Sensor and the inlet valves. Cracked rubber or hose left off etc. anything that allows air in after the MAF Sensor. Also especially after a car has been worked on a rag left in the inlet somewhere.

As a long shot if low fuel pressure, squeezing down on the return line to the fuel tank gently and with a rag to protect the rubber hose should make the pump work a bit harder and raise the pressure delivering more fuel and maybe an improvement. Areostart may not have been kind to the MAF sensor either As spraying it in the inlet would have soaked the sensor in it.