johnhedge Posted 26April, 2019 Report Share Posted 26April, 2019 Hi, I'm considering upgrading my 964's engine control unit. I'm aware of Motec's units. Who else makes them, please? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 26April, 2019 Report Share Posted 26April, 2019 John, there are lots! I'm upgrading mine ATM and my short list was Haltech, VEMS and Motec. Haltech and Motec are very well supported locally. I did a 2 day training course with Haltech which was very useful. Their website and YouTube channel is also worth a look. There is a guy in Estonia who does plug n' play kits using VMS ecu for about 1200 Euros which I think would be hard to beat if you just wanted a replacement "Stage 1" upgrade that could be then expanded further if needed later. You'll find him on Facebook and there is a 944 owner on PFA who has converted his car. The advice I got time and time again is to choose your tuner and then choose your ecu brand and model based on their advice. You probably need to decide what you want your new ECU to do first. Also need to decide how much "modification" you can accept to the original engine harness. I've opted to keep my modifications fully reversible (Heaven's knows why!) so have a adaptor harness that plugs into the existing body harness and then uses a separate "auxiliary" harness to run the new functions. The auxiliary harness has ended up having as many conductors as the standard body harness! If you just want to free yourself of the need to reflash chips as you make engine modifications, fit modern injectors and eliminate your AFM and distributor, most entry level ECU's will do that nowadays. However to continue knock control will mean you need the next step up. There are some good threads on PFA and Pelican as lots are people are doing EFI's particularly with ITB's on their SC's and earlier cars. Unfortunately not many are doing upgrades on 3.2's and 964's so will good to hear your experience when you do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 What a great reply Peter. I'm currently having my engine rebuilt. It is a blue print build. I'm not interested in tracking. I just love driving it. My mechanic is a Motec fan and was pointing me at the M130 as it has knock control but the price has focused our minds on what else might be available that doesn't break the bank! He's got a tuner in mind which he's worked with before. Thank you for all the information. I'll certainly update the forum with my experience , hopefully, later this year. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstone Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 My 2c. If your engine builder and tuner and systems have been down this track before? You did mention blueprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 I don't know the tuner, firstone. Anyway I like to do my own research. J firstone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 2 hours ago, johnhedge said: What a great reply Peter. I'm currently having my engine rebuilt. It is a blue print build. I'm not interested in tracking. I just love driving it. My mechanic is a Motec fan and was pointing me at the M130 as it has knock control but the price has focused our minds on what else might be available that doesn't break the bank! He's got a tuner in mind which he's worked with before. Thank you for all the information. I'll certainly update the forum with my experience , hopefully, later this year. John what do you mean by it has knock control? your car has knock sensors, almost any ecu would be able to accept their input (my haltech wired straight in to them) the haltech is the iphone of the ECU's available- shiny packaging, good marketing, ok product, and importantly almost everyone knows how to tweak them. more than adequate for what is required of a simple 2 valve six cylinder. but, you can see how some of the setups (fuel maps, ports) in the other ECU's can be more cleverly set up. adaptronic is now owned by haltech so the haltech stuff is about to jump forward significantly thanks to having andy doing R&D under their roof now. i would have liked emtron or adaptronic or whichever, but if i'm on a road trip, most shops can tweak a haltech if something goes wrong. that said, it is no good picking something your chosen tuner is not familiar with. Cheshire Cat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 clutch-monkey; I was led to believe the M84 didn't have knock input which is why we moved on to considering the M130. (which is 50% dearer!) " if i'm on a road trip, most shops can tweak a haltech if something goes wrong." I was under the (wrong?)impression that ECU's were a set and forget item. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 8 minutes ago, johnhedge said: clutch-monkey; I was led to believe the M84 didn't have knock input which is why we moved on to considering the M130. (which is 50% dearer!) " if i'm on a road trip, most shops can tweak a haltech if something goes wrong." I was under the (wrong?)impression that ECU's were a set and forget item. John they are, but if a sensor fails, or something falls out of sync, some ecu's can be easier to read to diagnose fault point. i have ITB's and will be doing road rallies so ability to tweak a tune and diagnose faults away from home base is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 Ok understood. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 23 minutes ago, clutch-monkey said: i have ITB's and will be doing road rallies so ability to tweak a tune and diagnose faults away from home base is important. Haltech 2500 I recall? Sam, Are you using a bespoke harness or a combination of existing harness with an auxiliary to handle the extra functions? 3 hours ago, johnhedge said: .. I'm not interested in tracking. I just love driving it. My mechanic is a Motec fan and was pointing me at the M130 as it has knock control but the price has focused our minds on what else might be available that doesn't break the bank! John, Similar situation to you but with a modified 3.2 with twin knock sensors amongst other things. My tuner persuaded me to a M130. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 Are you happy with it Peter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 10 minutes ago, johnhedge said: Are you happy with it Peter? Don't know yet as it's still being assembled. Still with a bit of work to go: Under the 3D printed mount is the M130 and some relays. A patch harness connects it to the original body harness on the left. The new auxiliary is about to have its plugs installed. The 964/993 knock sensor bridges have been mounted to the heads since 3.2 cylinders don't have a suitable boss unlike the later cars. The other end of the auxiliary harness. I didn't want to go the ITB route and wanted to keep the standard 3.2 intake manifold. But did delete the AFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 I'll be interested as you sound as though you're further down the path than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 I'll be interested too John as it's been off the road for a while! I was planning to do a thread once it's finished as not many owners do upgrades to this extent on 3.2's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 2 hours ago, Peter M said: Haltech 2500 I recall? Sam, Are you using a bespoke harness or a combination of existing harness with an auxiliary to handle the extra functions? John, Similar situation to you but with a modified 3.2 with twin knock sensors amongst other things. My tuner persuaded me to a M130. yep we unpinned the original plug from the oem ecu and repinned it into the haltech. there are diagrams out there for the 964 plug telling you what wire is what so it wasn't too bad. are you doing the same with the m130? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 1 hour ago, clutch-monkey said: ... are you doing the same with the m130? Sam, I managed to buy a plug that fits the body harness socket and have used this to make a harness adaptor. Unfortunately the standard ECU for 3.2's are so basic with batch fire injectors and not much more that the new auxiliary harness has had to have around 30 conductors to cover all the extra sensors, CoP's etc and even with using the thin Tefzel insulated conductors has ended up the same size as the standard harness! Have also found some problems with the accuracy of the wiring diagram in the Bentley workshop resulting in having to do some repinning. Have you finished your tuning? Care to post a bit more about your ecu upgrade? I reckon there are a few of us who would be very interested!😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 9 hours ago, johnhedge said: What a great reply Peter. I'm currently having my engine rebuilt. It is a blue print build. I'm not interested in tracking. I just love driving it. My mechanic is a Motec fan and was pointing me at the M130 as it has knock control but the price has focused our minds on what else might be available that doesn't break the bank! He's got a tuner in mind which he's worked with before. Thank you for all the information. I'll certainly update the forum with my experience , hopefully, later this year. John If you must go Motec my advice is to stick to an m600 with knock module as it will do all you need at a lower cost. There are also many other options out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 58 minutes ago, Redracn said: There are also many other options out there. I'm pleased you've popped in Red, but ya can't just throw us a few crumbs! If you owned a 964 and you wanted to modernise the ECU to run full sequential, direct fire, delete the AFM and have some engine protection functions, what would you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 44 minutes ago, Peter M said: I'm pleased you've popped in Red, but ya can't just throw us a few crumbs! If you owned a 964 and you wanted to modernise the ECU to run full sequential, direct fire, delete the AFM and have some engine protection functions, what would you use? I can only say so much until the 7th of July when my muzzle expires. Peter M and Mike D'Silva 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Cat Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 motec for the price of 3000 without any knock module built in... good way to waste money... btw when you start googling around pelicanparts for "knock sensor" there are funny results might be found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 27April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 Thanks for the advice Red but the M600 seems to be priced at the same $3,000 approx as the M130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Cat Posted 27April, 2019 Report Share Posted 27April, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 05:56, johnhedge said: Hi, I'm considering upgrading my 964's engine control unit. I'm aware of Motec's units. Who else makes them, please? Thanks, John What`s the original purpose of upgrading the ECU if you don`t mind me asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 28April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 28April, 2019 No I don't mind you asking. It helps me focus on that same question. My engine used to cut out due to a single mass flywheel and an after market a/c system. That together with re shaped cams, light pistons (higher compression), valves, ported heads and a desire to increase hp is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Cat Posted 28April, 2019 Report Share Posted 28April, 2019 5 minutes ago, johnhedge said: No I don't mind you asking. It helps me focus on that same question. My engine used to cut out due to a single mass flywheel and an after market a/c system. That together with re shaped cams, light pistons (higher compression), valves, ported heads and a desire to increase hp is the answer. so, basically for a reason :)) I know of only one aftermarket plug`n`play ECU that Peter already mentioned above - VEMS. The rest - wire in which means you can go with literally ANYTHING (from megasquirt to magnetti marelli) as long as you know how to tune. If you don`t know - find your tuner and he will sell it for you, wire it in and tune to a spec you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhedge Posted 28April, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 28April, 2019 that's two more names I'd never heard of before, CC. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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