996 GT3 Posted 17July, 2013 Report Share Posted 17July, 2013 2004 996 GT3 3.6L ENGINE - INTO A - 1998 996 C2 3.4L BODY SHELL Was really hoping I could rack brains re this - seems not many have done it before! We have been looking at the body shells & PET diagrams. - Understand the GT3 engine/box is longer & heavier (?) The 2 key parts that seem different are on: PET "REAR END" DIAGRAM - 801-35 A - TERMINAL PIECE - item 1 - this is VERY different. C2: - 996 551 973 00 GT3: - 996 551 173 90 B - REAR WALL - item 9 - large piece - but seems quite similar? C2: - 996 502 911 00 GT3: - 996 502 191 91 Would most appreciate any advice re: - Are these the relevant different body parts? - any other different parts people can think of? - Can we use the existing C2 REAR WALL to mount engine on to etc? - as guessing its a big job to swap in a GT3 REAR WALL!! many thanks JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 17July, 2013 Report Share Posted 17July, 2013 All I can say is consult Uncle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 I don't have the answer but I am very interested in the subject. After I've had my fun with the turbo SC this on my list of interesting projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 Gt3's are built on C4 platforms which have strengthened bulkheads (where the front diffs sit), the carrera (c2) front chassis is shared with the Boxster) so in theory you'll never have a proper GT3 geometry suspension set up on a carerra 2 chassis. Mechanically the engine will fit in the back with a few mods, (wet sump v dry sump ) gearbox same size but differs in weight.. One thing you need to keep in mind also is not just the mechanicals fitting, you need to consider things like early 996 3.4 throttle is cable driven whilst the later engine (Post 01) is fly-by-wire etc Good luck with the project.and keep us posted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 TO ALL - THANKS GREATLY!! PS - should have clarified: A- we are also swapping in my GT3 Cup Transaxle/Gearbox B- also fitting my GT3 engine wiring harness to manage GT3 engine. The GT3 engine wiring harness looks like it will "plug & play" into the existing C2 harness - @ just behind the seats - hopefully! ANY THOUGHTS RE: 1 - do you think this will still cause issues with the WIRING for the GT3 engine e-throttle? (As the Carrera 2 did not have e-throttle back in 1998) 2 - the GT3 box is longer I think - true? fitting issues? thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 if the GT3 engine/gearbox combo is heavier, I assume you'll be using the mounts from a GT3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 All I can say is consult Uncle! thanks - but really dont know whay you mean ??!! cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 Gt3's are built on C4 platforms which have strengthened bulkheads (where the front diffs sit), the carrera (c2) front chassis is shared with the Boxster) so in theory you'll never have a proper GT3 geometry suspension set up on a carerra 2 chassis. Mechanically the engine will fit in the back with a few mods, (wet sump v dry sump ) gearbox same size but differs in weight.. One thing you need to keep in mind also is not just the mechanicals fitting, you need to consider things like early 996 3.4 throttle is cable driven whilst the later engine (Post 01) is fly-by-wire etc Good luck with the project.and keep us posted... THANKS HEAPS! RE C4 VS C2 CHASSIS Yes, aware of this - but C4 shells very hard to find! To deal with this, we plan to: - front strut brace - bolt in roll-cage - ex factory issued GT3 CS 2004 - seam welding: - small spot welds along major points. The bulk of the work is on the side sills RE ENGINE/BOX MOUNTING - this is scaring all of us - including workshop! - can you clarify re: "the engine will fit in the back with a few mods" ?? - nb understand the Mezger engine is quite a bit bigger than the M96. The crank case alone is over 4" longer? RE - ENGINE ELECTRICAL - GT3 rear engine harness/ECU (we removed it) SHOULD just “plug & play” into C2 main harness @ just behind the seats hopefully - Big job to try to match up all individual wires if it doesn’t - Alternative: off-shelf engine management system - $1k - but big labour $ to install. cheers JB nb - advice received from UK panelbeater re fitting in GT3 larger engine: the difference is the rear hanger that is shaped like an arch at the rear of the car and the engine mounts. These can be modified, or by using parts off your old shell This modification has been done over here many times when required more by the guys who race these cars. So if you look from the back of the car with engine and gearbox out, you will see a cross member, this is different either by thickness or the cut outs. There is also difference in engine mounts brackets which have to be altered, this is easier if you have your old shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 another thought! is the 3RD RADIATOR really REQUIRED? - AS PER GT3 996 (IN CENTRE) - vs just the 2 Radiators on sides in 996 C2 - Does it have its own piping, circuits etc? - or just plug into the existing piping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 if the GT3 engine/gearbox combo is heavier, I assume you'll be using the mounts from a GT3? thanks - havnt made any plans there - but guess that makes total sense - we have the GT3 engine mounts. Most worried about fitting of the larger GT3 engine - ie mods required to REAR WALL? - or we do have to replace the entire rear wall panel? - a huuuuge job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J. Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 if a chevy LS3 V8 can fit with no rear wall modification, i'm sure a GT3 engine will fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 May I ask why? If its a track car, there was a 996 Cup roller for $35k (blown motor) on one of the Porsche club classifieds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 18July, 2013 Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 THANKS HEAPS! RE C4 VS C2 CHASSIS Yes, aware of this - but C4 shells very hard to find! To deal with this, we plan to: - front strut brace - bolt in roll-cage - ex factory issued GT3 CS 2004 - seam welding: - small spot welds along major points. The bulk of the work is on the side sills RE ENGINE/BOX MOUNTING - this is scaring all of us - including workshop! - can you clarify re: "the engine will fit in the back with a few mods" ?? - nb understand the Mezger engine is quite a bit bigger than the M96. The crank case alone is over 4" longer? RE - ENGINE ELECTRICAL - GT3 rear engine harness/ECU (we removed it) SHOULD just “plug & play” into C2 main harness @ just behind the seats hopefully - Big job to try to match up all individual wires if it doesn’t - Alternative: off-shelf engine management system - $1k - but big labour $ to install. cheers JB nb - advice received from UK panelbeater re fitting in GT3 larger engine: the difference is the rear hanger that is shaped like an arch at the rear of the car and the engine mounts. These can be modified, or by using parts off your old shell This modification has been done over here many times when required more by the guys who race these cars. So if you look from the back of the car with engine and gearbox out, you will see a cross member, this is different either by thickness or the cut outs. There is also difference in engine mounts brackets which have to be altered, this is easier if you have your old shell. Do you have the cross member that came with the GT3...? The gearbox differs from a standard one in weight due to a dedicated oil pump and external oil/water cooler, the GT3 gearbox is also an evolutionary step from the 993 TT whilst the Carrera is a completely different unit. I'd be thinking that a Motec tune would be much easier than trying to patch into the old carrera harness.. Just out of interest there was a GT3 roller chassis on ebay the other day that had suffered some track damage... might be worthwhile looking into..as much easier to put on a car-o-liner and jig it back into place then mucking around with a shell ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 May I ask why? If its a track car, there was a 996 Cup roller for $35k (blown motor) on one of the Porsche club classifieds. thanks - but road registered is our end game. Have a registered C2...plus a complete set of GT3 2004 drivetrain/suspension/brakes/interior/harness/cage/seats etc to swap in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 18July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 18July, 2013 Do you have the cross member that came with the GT3...? The gearbox differs from a standard one in weight due to a dedicated oil pump and external oil/water cooler, the GT3 gearbox is also an evolutionary step from the 993 TT whilst the Carrera is a completely different unit. I'd be thinking that a Motec tune would be much easier than trying to patch into the old carrera harness.. Just out of interest there was a GT3 roller chassis on ebay the other day that had suffered some track damage... might be worthwhile looking into..as much easier to put on a car-o-liner and jig it back into place then mucking around with a shell ?? Thanks again YES - have the entire GT3 body shell - not sure just what you mean re the "cross-member"? is this part of the rear wall - or engine hanger/mounts? ps - the black 2004 GT3 shell that was on ebay last week is mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted 21July, 2013 Report Share Posted 21July, 2013 another thought! is the 3RD RADIATOR really REQUIRED? - AS PER GT3 996 (IN CENTRE) - vs just the 2 Radiators on sides in 996 C2 - Does it have its own piping, circuits etc? - or just plug into the existing piping? IMHO Yes. I added a 3rd radiator to my C2 because excess heat is never a good thing and 996's run pretty hot from the factory, hence the availability of lower temp thermostats these days. Adding a 3rd rad was not difficult. It requires using some different coolant lines at the front of the car. I documented the mods I made to my coolant system here http://www.oz951.com/public/emmy.htm#Cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 22July, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 22July, 2013 IMHO Yes. I added a 3rd radiator to my C2 because excess heat is never a good thing and 996's run pretty hot from the factory, hence the availability of lower temp thermostats these days. Adding a 3rd rad was not difficult. It requires using some different coolant lines at the front of the car. I documented the mods I made to my coolant system here http://www.oz951.com/public/emmy.htm#Cooling AWESOME ADVICE! - thanks Kelly - great website too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 3August, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 3August, 2013 THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE! PROJECT UNDERWAY - PARTS REQUIRED FROM 996 GT3 BODY SHELL HAVE BEEN CUT OUT INCLUDING THE "BULGE" IN THE REAR WALL - AS REQUIRED FOR THE GT3 DRY SUMP ENGINE'S OIL TANK CHEERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 4August, 2013 Report Share Posted 4August, 2013 Start posting pics as you go mate. Keen to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996 GT3 Posted 13August, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 13August, 2013 Start posting pics as you go mate. Keen to see it happen. Thanks for the interest! project is in full swing - new rear cross member to accommodate GT3 engine en-route ex UK Martin - what is the best way to post updates...onto this story line etc - or some easier way? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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