996 NA Values

[Metal]

MY02 Porsche Carrera 911 Coupe Red Book
 

*Private Price Guide	$38,200 - $44,100
*Trade In Price Guide	$32,000 - $37,900
*Average Km	130,000 - 240,000
*Price When New	$185,500*Price Guide (EGC)

 

My car is a Black on Black manual and has travelled 132,000 kms

 

Options:

C23: Australian version

030: Sport Type Running Gear (Suspension)

288: Headlight washer

411: 18" Carrera Wheels

601: Litronic (Xenon) Headlights

680: Bose Digital Sound

 

226 code I'm not sure about.. 

 

The vehicle has a factory fitted Aero Kit (Mk2) but from what I have read there were never any codes given for this option..

 

Not a lot of fancy options. Really just the basics..

 

From what I have read I believe this model to be the fastest of this NA Generation at claims of 0-100 in 5sec (or 4.9 depending upon where you read..)

 

The vehicle has a solid Porsche service history and I am the fifth owner. Unfortunately I was not provided receipts of any work carried out over its lifetime.. Just the service book (no notes on IMS/EMS changes inclusive) but it was the one I wanted so.. Flame away if you feel the need!

 

To be honest I was attracted to the colour combination with the body kit. I didn't want a cab. The kms weren't an issue for me as they were on the lower side (according to Red Book anyhow..) and I was sure as hell not going anywhere near a low low km version or worse yet one that had been placed in storage given the bearing issue. I'm not ready to replace it yet.

 

Now I'm not planning on selling any time soon but I was thinking about putting it up on Car Sales as I believe these models do take some time to move especially at an asking price of $50k which I think would be a good starting point to work negotiations back from. Maybe that's a bit steep..

 

What do people think about the current prices for Gen 2 996's currently? I'm seeing $45k as the start point on Car Sales.. This contradicts the Red Book value somewhat.. And where do you think they will head over say the coming 5 years? 

I'm thinking prices will remain somewhat steady with maybe slight depreciation but I'm interested to know others thoughts on the NA 996 range.

 

I know there's the IMS/EMS issue and that will likely have an impact on resale for some buyers given factoring in replacement to their offer.. But at the end of the day these cars are still Porsche 911 Carrera's and one reason why I chose an older Carrera over a more modern Boxster (plus I just don't like soft top convertibles).

 

As I'm a noob to the world of Porsche ownership (I purchased it outright about two months ago) I'll post up a few pics. I have swapped out the OEM tails for aftermarket smoked 997 style LED's and replaced the side indicators with aftermarket smoked LED's (of course I have kept the originals). That's just my way of making my Porsche my Porsche I guess. Resale eventually will include all OEM gear of course.

 

In two months I've come close to buying a second Porsche twice for no other reason but that I am in love with the brand.. I have no need for two.. I know this.. But I love the old air cooled 911's so I like to keep my options open hence my consideration to put my 996 up for sale only two months after buying it knowing it is likely to take some time to move it to a new owner and for me to find an air cooled model to fall madly in love with.. The other option may be the turbo 996 if sticking with water cooled..

 

Let it be known:

I freaking love my MY02 Porsche 911 Carrera and am in no dire rush to sell!

 

By the way I trawled through every ad for 996 Carrera's on Car Sales yesterday and there was only two ads out of all of the Gen 1 & 2's that stated anything about IMS upgrades..

I wonder if this is a case of shhh maybe nobody will ask.. Or whether people just aren't aware or do not give a lot of credence to the 5-10% of cars affected by IMS failure claims.. I'm not sure.. Just found it interesting.. And I'm not putting my head in the sand I know it happens.

 

http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/Metalbattle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsywlreviy.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[Stew F]

I've been considering a 996 as a daily driver for a while now.  I was in at Buik Motorworks today to pick up a sunroof seal for my SC and got talking to Mark about 996's.  He said that of the 5 or 6 major engine repairs he's done on them none were anything to do with the IMS bearing.  He's changed a couple out that were noisy, but still somewhat serviceable.  He seems to be of the opinion the IMS thing is a bit overstated.

[TrevMcRev]

I get exactly how you feel...  I too have a 02 996 Carrera manual coupe, fell in love and want an old aircooled and daydream about selling it to keep my eyes peeled for the right old girl...

I'd ignore redbook on these.  It also suggests a 996 GT2 is worth $92 - 117K!  For that price each I'll take ALL of them please!  One just sold for quadruple that.

And a GT3 is $55 - $72K. But are selling for around $150K

Now I know people laugh off the watercooled 996's as "non-desirable" and can only go down, down, down.

I don't think so.  When the top-line models are going up and up, a carrera 2 manual coupe can only get dragged up at some point.

It has happened in every other model before it.  When only 18 months ago a 996 GT2 could be had for $120-150K whist a 993 GT2 was $1,000,000 car I bet there were plenty of people saying, "yeah but it'll never happen to the watercooled cars!"  

Every other model of 911 has started with the hero variant going up.  At first it's only a 73RS that's valuable...who'd even want an S?...then an S is valuable but who'd want an E or a T?, then they are valuable too.  At first a 964 RS becomes valuable but who'd want a C4?...Then the Turbo goes up too, then the C2 manual, but then the C4 manual, then even a C4 tip Cab goes up.

So I hold on to the belief that at some point, when 996 GT3RS become unobtainable, GT2s cost more that a nice house, GT3s are a few hundred G's, and TT's jump up, then ultimately a Carrera 2 manual coupe will be the most desirable and valuable next car in line.

It's easy to get distracted by lower priced 996's in less desirable spec if you don't filter a carsales search to the same spec.

Right now there are only 4 cars on the market that match your spec of Mk2 manual C2 coupe.  They range from $49K (with much higher kms) to $58.5K.

I think this spec is still a $55K car.  And i'm sure one day we'll be kicking ourselves for selling one that cheap!

I also don't think the IMS is that big a deal, nor an expensive preventative fix.  Really, all the older aircooled engines have there own issues which seem to cost way more in comparison to repair.  Let alone all the other issues/niggly minor repairs needed with older cars.  

That's where I get stuck with the early car romance...to go from a perfectly good 911 C2 that everything works on, leaks no oil, has no dramas that financially would be pretty much a straight swap for a basket case aircooled car that needs a ton of money thrown at it.  Having not had the opportunity to drive one and fall in love with the "raw experience" I find I just can't quite commit to letting mine go...

Ps.  If you/we do advertise them, I reckon put em on for $75K them mark sold in 2 days to stir the market up  Seems to have worked the aircooled/GT car market!

[Coastr]

I often think about going for a 996 mk2 c2 manual, but I've never drive one.  Maybe if I see one in a dealer one day...

air cooled cars aren't all money pits, but I guess it depends on how much use and what level of perfection you want to get it to.

[Mike737]

I never thought it would happen but I've now personally witnessed an IMS failure. Gen 2 C2 tip. Can say it's a pretty messy scene and devastating for the owner so I think there is merit in the retrofit kits, just not a lifetime solution and definitely up the price for a car with one.

Agree with Trev on the price. I think $55 considering the aero.

[Metal]

Thanks for the responses. Well I paid a fair chunk less for the car than $55k so that's a great start.

Now I'm not sure if any of you have seen what happened to this Nick Murray character and his experience of owning a 991 911 and I understand this car to be a one off "lemon" but geez I was both mortified and highly entertained by this vid..

If you haven't seen it.. Enjoy!

Whatever issues you may have with your car at any given time just remember things could be much much worse..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXUnZrykDY

[espskk]

Did you notice in the video around the 4 minute mark that the back rest  of the passenger seat is wet.  I reckon he has left the sunroof open!!    

[Ten Degrees]

Those researching to buy a 996 will find out about the IMS reasonably quick, but you might be quite surprised how many current owners there are that don't even know what an IMS bearing is!!   I have spoken to numerous people that have owned there car from new or near new and have no idea.

As previously noted, it's not as bigger issue as the internet doomsayers would want you to believe.    I upgraded mine when installing a new clutch. The original bearing had 100,000km on it and was like new.

[Mike737]

As previously noted, it's not as bigger issue as the internet doomsayers would want you to believe.    I upgraded mine when installing a new clutch. The original bearing had 100,000km on it and was like new.

Too true. Either clutch as you said or whilst doing your RMS or AOS are all good times to get it done.

[Rod C]

One thing I have noticed following the 996 market is there  are  always on average 2 to 4 cars with changeover engines.

Dont know the reasons and not sure what the average is for other models but where probably talking about 60 to 80 NA  996's advertized at any one time.

[t888]

One thing I have noticed following the 996 market is there  are  always on average 2 to 4 cars with changeover engines.

Dont know the reasons and not sure what the average is for other models but where probably talking about 60 to 80 NA  996's advertized at any one time.

there were a number of issues, including the ims bearing mentioned above, as well as cylinder scoring issues, amongst all the other things that can go wrong with an engine. 

To my mind having a replaced engine might be better than having an original one as later designs rectified various issues over the years. the worst engines for IMS were used from around 2002 - 2005, ie second gen 996s. First gen 996s had plenty of other issues such as cracked cylinders. 

 

 

 

[m1dl1fe]

I paid low 50's for an immaculate 2002 manual targa with very low kms a month ago.The previous owner had no idea about the ims bearing issues. I got the upgrade done at Hamiltons along with a new clutch and water pump and a few other bits n pieces. It's my first Porsche and I absolutely love it , never fails to put a smile on my face.

[dan_189]

Upgrading the IMS has its merits. It's a good insurance policy. $1500 IMS vs 15k+ engine or rebuild.  It makes sense to get it done when changing your clutch. There was an IMS lawsuit in the states about it. 2nd gen single row is more prone to failure than the earlier dual row. 

The stats from the lawsuit were 8% for single row and 1% for dual row. 

As for pricing I'd steer well clear of redbook.

XAA is the factory aerokit code that would be on your under bonet sticker If your car was ordered with the factory aerokit ii which is the mk2 kit which is like the gt3 but it doesn't have the cut out for the 3rd radiator in the front unless it's a tiptronic. 

Your car actually has a Carrera spoiler + side skirts. If it had the MK2 aerokit it would have a GT3 style front bumber + Side skirts + GT3 style rear wing without the integrated 3rd brake light in it. Technicalities aside, looks nice.