PPI - Not all it Seems?

[JB]

Hi Guys,

 

Some advice from those with experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

When I bought my 997 it was bought privately, semi in conjunction with a particular interstate PCentre dealer who had serviced and sold the car initially. I organised a PPI through this particular dealer who then advised that for X amount of dollars more I could extend the current warranty on the car and that undertaking meant a PPI would be technically undertaken anyway.  I thought getting a PPI and then a warranty to support it for the 12 months was sensible.

 

So the report I received was minimal upon picking up the car, as I traveled interstate to collect that car nothing was sent prior, except a phone call saying no issues and the warranty would be granted by Porsche Aust for another 12 months (this all took place hastily as we were on a tight schedule).

 

So after picking up the car from the dealer and bringing it back to melb, I picked up on a couple of things that required potential attention (nothing major). As the initial days passed and the more I went over the car a lot of ‘little things’ popped up (missing screws, door alignment etc) there was a noise in the front end which I thought would be bushes, so I booked it in at a P dealer in Melb. The car has now been in 4 times to rectify warranty issues (battery cables, oil air separator, door jamb, door lock mechanism, front and rear bushes) with no problem what so ever, they have been fantastic in addressing the issues albeit those little annoying things, nothing major has been wrong with the car, they have also picked up on things I had not and rectified these as well, so from a melb dealer perspective cannot complain.

 

As part of its visit to the dealer this week for some noise in the tie rods, they have told me that there’s nothing wrong with them but they have developed a small noise when turning at slow speed. They recommend replacing However this is not covered by warranty.- $500.

 

My question to the members is all of these things that have been apparent should have been picked up in the PPI.  After seeing another P cars PPI and hearing about others the one I received from the interstate dealer is a joke. And I feel that whilst a handful of things have been rectified under warranty these should have been picked up as part of the PPI. This also may/may not have not impacted my decision on purchase of the car or at least its final sale price.

 

I have left a message with P cars Australia to discuss, however would welcome others thoughts, as the car is great but I’m worried what else may have been missed.  Am I overreacting or am I right to question the dealer that completed the so called PPI?

Welcome thoughts/Suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jonathan.

[Dreamr]

Hey Jonathan,

Sorry to hear this has happened and I'm sure others will chime in with their wisdom, but over the years I have been on here, the general consensus is that any PPI should be done at a dealer / specialist that is independent of the selling dealer, purely for the conflict of interest that arises.

I know that it doesn't help in your situation, but maybe someone else will read this and find it helpful.

I hope you are able to sort it all out amicably.....

[turboT]

In my experience with new and old Porsches no one ever picks up everything and there is always a possibility that issues only just arose and they always have that to fall back on as an excuse/explanation.

With my first 930 i paid for a PPI with the dealer (independent from the dealer, although recommend). The next week I forked out $12k to get a whole list of things fixed...

With a 997tt i had it in for a major service before I sold it - got the big tick of approval. Sold it 4 weeks later subject to a PPI and they picked up that the whole steering column needed replacing ($10+k fix that was fortunately covered by warentee)

$500? That's nothing mate. You own a Porsche  

[clutch-monkey]

Have had eight ppi's done. Most indepnedent workshops are more thorough (got a report on paint thickness even!).

that said the independents have all told me with air cooled stuff, even a solid car, you could drive it away no worries but at the same time you could easily still spend $5k on it fixing little things here and there.

[SimonN]

IMO, PPI's guard you against major items, but detail stuff is often not spotted. I have now owned my 3.2 for close to 6 months and I still find little things that i know have been there years. It is impossible to eyeball every single little part across the whole car. For me, I want to know that the engine and gearbox are good, the body is sound and no accidents, what condition the brakes are in and what the general condition of the suspension is. I expect known weaknesses to be checked, but I have to accept that minor things will get missed and I think in this case, they seem minor. I don't know how Porsche Australia work, but I suspect that before offering an extended warranty, the dealer probably has to complete a "100 point inspection" (I don't know its 100 points, but you get the idea). I am sure it is more than Porsche accepting the dealer saying the car looks nice! As such, the vehicle passed the Porsche Australia criteria. The question is whether you would or should expect anything further. I suspect not, so yes, its frustrating, but I don't think you have been hard done by.

[JB]

thanks so far guys. As i said nothing major on the car, however i picked up on bushes on the car at the front within the second day of having it. Knowing they are a item that goes on these cars you'd think that would have been checked? The melb dealer  picked up on the rears when it went in for the fronts. They picked up on the AOS? i think it was. said they could hear it was blocked. so just little things expected by people who are meant to know what they are doing. Tyre's didn't pass a Vic RWC.......

I know they are minor issues, but the concern stems around have they missed anything major. To be honest i don't think so a i know the car was compression tested and oil/filter cut open and inspected. The point is more around consumer expectation and payment of a business charging for a service that would be questionable if it has been conducted correctly. 

[Mike737]

I wouldnt worry too much as annoying as it is. I can definitely report worse experiences. Sounds honestly like your getting value for money.

[Fraz]

Given some of the purchase price numbers and cost of repairs, I think it's only a matter of time before a one of these so called "experts" is taken to task with these PPI's.

My personal experience with the 964 was I did not have the luxury of a PPI, back in the air cooled madness days, you snooze you loose. Still had to spend $10K plus to get the car right, I was very lucky in hindsight.

 

 

[Mike-S]

I sometimes question the reasoning behind having a PPI, especially on a 25+ year old car. It's old, you need to go into a purchase with your eyes open and expect to have things to put right or spend money on it, after all it isn't new. I wouldn't (and haven't ever) have a PPI buying any other car, even relatively new ones so I struggle with the justification for it and this mantra that thou must do one for a Porsche. The experiences of a few in this thread seem to back that up, PPI's have been done, lots still needed spending, therefore the PPI wasn't worth the expense. Money for old rope.

Rarely does someone sell a car without it having problems, it's often why the car is sold in the first place. Regardless of that, any new buyer is always going to find things to do that don't meet their own standards but the previous owner was happy to live with or didn't know about. That's just a facet of buying an older car.

Fairly sure I'll get roundly criticised for that view...

 

[Mike737]

I think you're correct Mike in regards to what to expect. I think the advantage of the PPI is having someone who know's Porsches and what to look for when your new to the brand, otherwise the real pay off is in terms of putting a bore scope into the engine and checking compression.

PPI's can be used as a bargaining chip and can save you some money in the short run if there are issues. I got five times the amount in fixes from the PPI's cost. Things that I wouldn't have picked up without a PPI and being new to the brand. I got my money out of it, but was still disappointed at items which had been missed on the PPI that should have been picked up. 

So if you're paying top dollar for a car then I think a PPI is definitely worth it. If you pick up a bargain, then you're probably not going to get much value out of it at all.

[SimonN]

I sometimes question the reasoning behind having a PPI, especially on a 25+ year old car. It's old, you need to go into a purchase with your eyes open and expect to have things to put right or spend money on it, after all it isn't new. I wouldn't (and haven't ever) have a PPI buying any other car, even relatively new ones so I struggle with the justification for it and this mantra that thou must do one for a Porsche. The experiences of a few in this thread seem to back that up, PPI's have been done, lots still needed spending, therefore the PPI wasn't worth the expense. Money for old rope.

Rarely does someone sell a car without it having problems, it's often why the car is sold in the first place. Regardless of that, any new buyer is always going to find things to do that don't meet their own standards but the previous owner was happy to live with or didn't know about. That's just a facet of buying an older car.

Fairly sure I'll get roundly criticised for that view...

 

 I honestly cannot understand your attitude to PPI's, although I think it is like getting a full survey on a house when buying it - you need to read through the FUD to understand what is serious and what isn't. 

Here is the issue I have. How many of us can tell what an engine is really like without compression and leak down testing? I don't think even the pros would take a risk of saying an engine is OK or not without that. When i buy an old car, i accept I am going to need to spend money on it, but on fairly "minor" items. I don't expect to buy a car and need to rebuild the engine (unless i know about it first). 

Would you buy all of these? An engine with leak down numbers of, say. 4-5% across all cylinders or one with 12-15% across all. Or 10% across all but one, that shows up at 25%. In many or even most cases, people would not be able to tell those differences without the test. Butt dynos don't cut it for estimating engine condition. Very recently i read a thread on a US Porsche forum which told of a guy who set a new PB and lap record at a time trial only to strip his engine soon after (for major mods) only to find 2 broken rings he had no idea he had.

[Mike-S]

Totally different value proposition Simon, that's a somewhat difficult comparison as the car could only be 10% of the value of a house, the costs are hugely different. A house inspection is often required for a mortgage, it's a necessary evil but yes I would do one of those if I thought it necessary. Didn't do one on the house I currently own, didn't care as my own experience told me what was wrong with it and that it would last the 3-5 years needed before I knock it down.

Like I say, if I felt I was going to get a benefit from the PPI then I'd have one done, however the experience of many seems to suggest to me it's somewhat of an opportunity for 'experts' to fleece the unwary. Those unwary are the ones it should be protecting.

JB's experience has been positive in that it gained an extended warranty and that's picked up the bills for the repairs, however the PPI seems to have missed a significant number of simple items. Seems to have been more of a cursory glance than a proper inspection, but at least the ending has been moderately happy for him. 

[clutch-monkey]

Of my ppi's most were well worth it (especially the interstate cars), because some were absolute basket cases once the shop started poking around the wiring loom etc..

[Mike-S]

Interstate is a different issue, if I couldn't lay eyes on the car myself some kind of inspection would be useful. Having said that I'd make every effort to go myself.

Best thing to do is be like Tom, buy a rolling shell and not worry about such trivial matters