Never liked diesel

[Peter M]

.....That's why VW had to cheat, because the same engine in Europe has less strict standards for diesel for nox.  The Euros decided co2 was a threat to 4 generations hence so they decided to fill up the lungs of the current generation with diesel soot.

 

.....The diesel laws in the US were more effectively an import tariff due to the fact that no US manufacturers were really trying to sell diesel passenger cars when the laws were bought in and they needed protection against all the Euro diesels threatening their industry.

Ah, I hadn't really thought about the different diesel emission standards of Europe vs US.  The attached link discusses the reason why the difference came about in a short and painless way.  Less exciting than Josh's conspiracy theory....

https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/differences-in-us-and-eu-emissions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/

[LeeM]

I think the people who choose to live in the city need to suck it up.

Electric cars just move the polution to another location. Nothing more than a case of not in my backyard like Moving in next to an airport then wanting it shut down. Of course all the inner city types could leave for a cleaner place and at the same time would be helping those that remain. But why do that when you can just stomp your foot and demand everyone else accommodate you. 

 Absolutely re the electric cars, yet let's not start another thread about those things ?

 Also like a profitable mushroom farm a few years ago here in SA that was forced to close due to the new housing development. A 40% vote of the new residents forced them out, all because they didn't like the smell of manure! Good to see majority rules there then! 

 A client I had was whinging when he built a high end home at Mawson Lakes SA (Mosquito Lakes I call it). He was selling up coz he didn't like the smell (reclaimed swamp basically. Go figure!) and his home was on the Parafield airport flight path. Now really, wouldn't you do some research prior to building? He ended up selling for what it owed him, and residents there are still trying to disrupt air traffic. Same as a new develpoment next to the RAAF base Edinburgh. Do they expect an FA18 coming in to land is going to be quiet? 

  People really are stupid sometimes

 

[DJM]

Quiz, what generates most pollution:

- modern Euro diesel SUV averaging 8-10L/100km in real world suburban use 

- Macan Or similar SUV averaging 14-16L/100km in real world suburban use

- Tesla recharged off Latrobe Valley brown coal fired power

I don't know the answer but I don't think ban diesel, drive electric is necessarily the silver bullet until such time as more of the power grid is made up of renewables.  

And a tesla is no good for towing my caravan 6 hours to the camp ground we have booked at Easter......

[Peter M]

.....Diesels can and do meet the same emmision specs as petrol cars....

Ah, but that's the rub Red!

While diesel and petrol cars may meet the same say Euro 5 or 6 standard, the pollution standards are not necessarily the same for each fuel type.  For example under either standard, the diesel version is permitted to emit around 3 times the NOx's that the petrol powered version has to comply to. 

More details here for the anoraks : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

 

Maybe if more diesel car drivers were aware of this they wouldn't be so smug? 

[DJM]

How do current model diesel emissions compare to a 70s/80s 911....?

[Peter M]

Doug,

I guess 20 to 30 times better than a mid 70's 911 in everything on a grams per kilometre basis.  However I think an old 911 will emit less particulates than a modern diesel.

[Joshstix]

 

Ah, I hadn't really thought about the different diesel emission standards of Europe vs US.  The attached link discusses the reason why the difference came about in a short and painless way.  Less exciting than Josh's conspiracy theory....

https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/differences-in-us-and-eu-emissions-standard-key-cause-of-dieselgate/

HAHA just like ADRs have always been about other countries standards not being good enough and had nothing to do with protecting Australian manufacturers.

[Peter M]

I actually agree with you on that one. 

[Redracn]

Ah, but that's the rub Red!

While diesel and petrol cars may meet the same say Euro 5 or 6 standard, the pollution standards are not necessarily the same for each fuel type.  For example under either standard, the diesel version is permitted to emit around 3 times the NOx's that the petrol powered version has to comply to. 

More details here for the anoraks : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

 

Maybe if more diesel car drivers were aware of this they wouldn't be so smug? 

Hi Pete

I wasnt talking about the standards. Which in the US treat both fuel types the same unlike the EU. Diesel can match the petrol even without urea injection (but much easier if you use it and less enconomy/CO2 trade off). VW passed the US test they just had to emit more CO2 to do it (reduce Nox) and then returned to EU spec when outside the lab which is the issue that got them in trouble. You could almost consider it a slider one goes down as the other comes up. 

Also not all Diesel or Petrol engines operate at the regulatory limits many are well below them   and meet or exceed the next generation of regulations. The regulations are a laboratory maximum not a target.

Doug,

I guess 20 to 30 times better than a mid 70's 911 in everything on a grams per kilometre basis.  However I think an old 911 will emit less particulates than a modern diesel.

Ill tale that bet?

[tazzieman]

Some more fodder here https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions

Whilst we can feel collective guilt at our classic car emissions , how many classic cars do you see driving most days of the year?

Pimple on a pumpkin.

Don't even start to mention aviation pollution , and all your quick business trips & weekend getaways 

Diesels are the same as unfiltered fags. It's been a big con job up until now.

Anyway , some levity

 

 

[Redracn]

^ What news? It has been know for a very long time that pretty much ALL cars regardless of fuel emit more on the road than in the lab. For any given car the more fuel you use the more you emit so if you want to emit less buy a small car and use a feather on the throttle.

[Coastr]

The irony is that an old sbox spewing out lots of black smoke (particulates) is not emitting much if any Nox. 

Theres nothing like the smell of diesel fumes in the morning as the heavy equipment starts up. Love it. Problem is my V8 Touareg smells nothing like that. Much closer to a LPG forklift.

I have nothing negative to say about the VW(Audi) 4.2L diesel. With 800Nm to say it tows well is an understatement. Cruises at 8L/100 doing 1250rpm at 100kph. Not bad for 2400kg. Also good for embarrassing hot hatches at the lights.

My Cayenne 4.8L V8 was slower to 100kph and cruised at 14L/100. But it did sound good doing it.

Pretty soon bad breath will be considered an offence against the environment. 

touraeg is good application of diesel, esp for towing.  Passenger cars not so much.  Nobody needs a diesel golf.

Disagree.  Those rules in the US are only for "passenger cars", which does not include "trucks" such as the F150 which is the biggest selling vehicle in the US.  The diesel laws in the US were more effectively an import tariff due to the fact that no US manufacturers were really trying to sell diesel passenger cars when the laws were bought in and they needed protection against all the Euro diesels threatening their industry.

it might be so that it is an import duty but the California air resources board won't let the nox emissions change for diesels like Europe does.  Nox is what causes the smog in la and San Francisco.  I believe them when they say the stricter standards are for real pollution reasons.

Its true that the pickup truck class does have different emissions standards (something which contributes to their popularity) but diesels are a minor player in the pickup market.  The f150 doesn't even have a diesel option.  Even the gigantic motor homes you see getting around are mostly petrol until you get to the biz size ones.

[firstone]

You know a heap of diesel suv's and duel cabs have removed everything from the turbo back and replaced it with a straight through pipe surely adding to pollution. 

But the turbo sound......

[Redracn]

You know a heap of diesel suv's and duel cabs have removed everything from the turbo back and replaced it with a straight through pipe surely adding to pollution. 

But the turbo sound......

Yeh, the aftermarket fitment/tuning industry has been aiding in breaking the laws since they were first introduced. They routinely fit "for race and off-road use only" bits that would never actually be used by a race team. As far as I know only California and maybe a couple of other US states have made any effort to fix this issue in that a fitter is responsible if they fit non compliant bits. Problem is it is a large and noisy industry employing lots of people so no polly is prepared to go after it. The only time the law is enforced here is when the police decide to do a blitz on the ricers and then the penalty is nothing more than a defect notice.