986 vs 996 A pre-purchase query

[withers]

Hi everybody,

Firstly I feel I have to apologise for asking another question about reliability of these fine cars! I'm new to Porsche. I'm also a woman with basic car knowledge. A petrol head too boot! I can check oil levels and do all those maintenance thingees we need to do to make sure all is ok!

As I said in a thread I started about 986 seats, I've dreamed of a P for 25+ years! They've always been soooo far out of my price range that owning one has always only been a dream! But sometime in the next year I think I'll be able to afford something under $40k (give or take $5k). The dreams I have were always around a 911. But also, something with some modern mod-cons.. A/C, power steering all those sort of things I must have in a car. Also I want to be able to jump in it.. toodle up to the shops (5 min away) get some groceries and come back home in it... maybe once or twice a week I'd do that. Rest of the time the car would be a weekender and would do a return trip of an hour or so to the gym maybe twice a week. Up and down some country roads to see my parents and general cruising! And of course, I'd probably go on some cruises with you guys too and join the P club

So I got excited the other night when I saw this

http://www.carsales.....5&sort=default

I emailed that link to a Porsche fan friend (he's owned a 986 since brand new, 2000 S never missed a beat, only paid for routine maintenance) and he politely said 'no way Amanda those cars are lemons' he mostly talked about the IMS RMS failures etc all the same stuff I've heard about the Boxster! Now from the research I've done.. seems the 986 and 996 aren't that far apart in their engine structures.. so is the 996 really that much of a lemon than the 986? I'm thinking NO! I'm in the process of downloading the Total 911 Issue 69 on my iPad so I can read it too.

For similar money you seem to get extra seats in the 911 and just a few things that I feel will make the ownership that more enjoyable with the car being more practical than a 2 seater Boxster. Means I'd keep it longer.

I should also state, I'll be buying a manual one if I go this route.

So after this very long post (sorry) my questions are:

1. Will my driving style be a hazard to these cars? Can I just drive it like a regular Jap crap car ?
   
2. Those 911 996s under say $45k.. should I run away from them, are they that cheap for a reason? Love to hear from someone that has bought a cheap one like that.
   
3. My younger brother is a mechanic. I'm guessing the 996 is easier to work on? I'd probably use a Porsche Specialist mostly, but oil changes I'd ask him to do for in bw servicing
   
4. How much does the IMS preventative swap out thingameeejigammee cost?
   

I'm already driving a GTI Golf MY08.. so I can't envisage the servicing difference price wise being THAT much different. I'm ok with that.

If you've stayed with me this long, thankyou so much I appreciate any advice/insight you can give me.

Regards

Amanda

Here's another example of a coupe

http://www.carsales.....5&sort=default

[Guest vas930]

All good questions, Amanda.

Buying any modern Porsche (996 on) for under 60k is buying a cheap porsche.

With that come some issues.

These cars have lots of km on the clock.

They may have something in the past like accident issues.

They may be an import.

Or in the case of the 996 a engine issue/IMS.

This is why they are cheap to buy.

Its a matter of weighing up the low price with any potential cost(IMS) and the resale value.

Keep in mind its a small percentage of cars that have a major failure with the IMS.

However it can be very expensive to fix.

Plenty of people on this site have that engine in the 996 and boxster and have never had a drama.

Your price range and intended use has put you in that market.

Its very important that you get a PPI done on the car.

However, even the best mech cant predict this type of issue with a PPI.

So its a matter of taking the chance and saving some money on the fact that they are cheap with a potential issue.

Its up to you.

If you ask on this forum if you should or not, you will get a range of views.

But its your money.

As a drivers car they are both fantastic cars.

You will get a Boxter with less km than the 996 for the same money.

In your case, thats what I would be going for.

The best condition low km Boxster you can get for your money.

The other option is to get a 993 with more kms.

These are an awesome car with great resale value and very reliable.

A great looking car with performance to match.

That would be my choice, but you may need to save a bit more cash.

It would be worth it in my opinion.

So its up to you.

The main thing is you get that Porsche.

Boxster, 996 or 993 you will love every minute of of it.

If you want, give Loui a call at Motion Automotive.

A good friend of mine and the best Porsche mech in Melbourne. IMO

Tell him Vas said to call. 96450022 Loui.

He will give some no BS advice that may help you.

Good luck

[withers]

Thanks Vas... yes I'll deffo get a PPI done on whatever I am looking at.

I think you are right re the Boxster. Just cos it's my first Porsche, it doesn't have to be my last! I need to get out and actually drive one.

I won't be seeing a $60k priced P in my garage until the bank no longer owns the garage!

I'll also do some 993 investigations too. Just means i might end up waiting another year or so to buy. I seem to be getting old quickly... that means time must be flying and before I know it.. I'll be ready to buy one!

Thanks for Lou's contact info. What I might do is make that phone call with my Brother handy, that way he can talk to him about some of the more technical issues.

[cyberpunky]

I almost bought a Lotus many years ago and have kicked myself ever since that I didn't, as I never had the chance to do it later. I bought a Porsche about 2 years ago and have never looked back. If you find the right car then go for it, as you may not be in the same position in a years time, but whatever position you are in down the track, it's always a lot nicer knowing you have a Porsche in the driveway

[PCM911T]

Hi Amanda, while you're considering all these issues about modern Porsches, I'd like to suggest two things. 1. You need to DRIVE a variety of Porsches to see if you actually like them. Totally different to your GTi is what I'm saying Start with a 944 and work your way up through Boxster to the 911. .2. Modern Porsches are great, no doubt, but if you love driving GET AN OLDER ONE for much less money (and keep your GTi as a town car!) Modern Porsches will cost a bomb to fix -because they don't rebuild they REPLACE engines and gearboxes. With an older one everyting is rebuildable. You might like to consider starting with Andrew's 911SC advertised on this site, needs a little tidying up but should be an honest car with a service history. And SCs are a good investment model and eligible for cheap club permit registration.

CHEERS

Paul M

[T-Man]

Did someone mention 993?

As with the others I would also recomend doing your research and getting to know your P-cars.

You may be a "bells and whistles" driver where a Boxster or 996 may suit.

On the other hand something like a 993 or an older Porsche again could be your cup of tea.

[withers]

Hi Paul

Thanks for your advice. The GTI must go to afford the P. I can't do both I'm afraid

I will definitely check out some older vehicles. My all time fave would be a 1971 911 or 912! But I got spooked by how.... erm, dare I say it primitive they seem inside. Not sure it's for me but I should deffo check it out to be sure.

[Chris-p]

996's are great value. Porsche made more of them than any other model 911 so they cannot be too bad. A very good friend of mine keeps telling me, buy the best car you can afford. It's very good advice I think. But do get a PPI done and make sure it has good service history. Good maintenance is essential and regular servicing of these cars especially oil changes are very important.

Good luck, enjoy looking and keep us informed of the progress you make

Cheers

Chris

[JustJames]

Hi Amanda

On the 996 vs 986 there are two day-to-day issues to consider.

1 - Do you need the 2 1/2 size seats? If yes, you need a 996.

2 - Do you want a convertible? If yes, you need a Boxster. The 996 convertible is a roof-down version of a car that was originally designed to have a roof. There may be considerations that push you to a 996 Cabrio, but the Boxster has the design advantage that it was designed from day 1 to be a convertible.

The leaking RMS (which is the rear main seal around the crank; a seal that is there to keep the internal engine oil on the inside of the oil) is largely a cosmetic issue, unless it has got to the point where the car is leaking so much oil that lubrication is compromised.

The IMS issue relates to the intermediate shaft bearing. By now, many cars will have had their IMS bearing replaced with the LN Engineering bearing upgrade which fixes the problem, and generally fixes it for good.

Finally, with regard to your driving style, everything I've read indicates that it is cars that are given the kid gloves treatment that fare worst. Which kinda makes sense. Mechanical devices, be they Porsches, bicycles, musical instruments or washing machines - forgive me, a current sore point - work best and longest when used regularly because that is what they were designed for.

Long bonnet cars will indeed seem primitive...and that is a very large part of their charm. Sometimes less really is more.

James

[withers]

Thanks James... for me it's either Boxster or 996 Coupe I think! The 996 Coupe has a sexy butt - the twin exhaust and wide OEM rims! Great looking car )

I don't baby cars... I like a bit ooomph! When I had my bright pink XY replica GT Falcon in the early 1990s.. with its 351 Windsor and lumpy CAM.. one of my brothers mates said it was a waste having a girl driving a car like that.. then he followed me in it once and came back and ate his words!

Geez that car attracted all the wrong glances! The bogans really didn't appreciate such a car being pink... funny

[J.J.]

a pink XY :blink:

[T-Man]

Now I haven't been on this forum for that long, but I doubt very much that we would have had anyone from the fairer sex as much of a "rev head" (and I say that in a good way) as Amanda.

What a great range of cars you have owned. Now that I'm getting a better idea of your previous rides I'm going with the 996 Coupe.

Looks "Tougher" than a Boxster! (No offence to any Boxster owners frequenting this forum)

[withers]

a pink XY :blink:

I know! It was well done. It was a strong pink, not a pale pink. Had lovely paint on it.... but it really did freak out and attract the type of attention I did not like at all. I had some pretty scary drives in that car, dudes tailgating me and then cutting me off... male passengers flashing their body body parts that should remain in their pants type of attention. After that I got home and said to my Dad (I was like 20 at the time I think) I don't want this car anymore Dad... everyone is picking on me in it! He wasn't very impressed when I told him what was happening. Bye bye XY

Now I haven't been on this forum for that long, but I doubt very much that we would have had anyone from the fairer sex as much of a "rev head" (and I say that in a good way) as Amanda.

What a great range of cars you have owned. Now that I'm getting a better idea of your previous rides I'm going with the 996 Coupe.

Looks "Tougher" than a Boxster! (No offence to any Boxster owners frequenting this forum)

The Boxster is a great looking car!

[JustJames]

a pink XY :blink:

It's usually XX types that go for pink.

[Doish13]

Got a Polaroid or Instamatic of the Pink GT?

[withers]

I'll have to scan a photo of it.. will do so in next few days and post on here Been meaning to scan a photo of it for a long time.

[withers]

You get a lot more Boxster for what a 996 costs tho - something for me to think about ie I get a much newer P!

[AndyS]

Hi Awit,

I have had a 996 for 5-6 years and it has been a great car. Regular maintenance mostly. Two main issues above, I have replaced a rear main seal once. Cost me approx 500-600. IMS bearings go in about 5-8% of 996&997's. Not driving these cars 'with spirit' is worse for them. The IMS bearing does not sit in oil so a bit of 'oil splash' when driving with a bit of gusto helps. Simple other prventative maintenance, warm up, warm down, replace oil annually all common sense stuff. My mechanic does rebuild watercooled engines and cost can vary depending on damage if one does go. 10-20K so even though very small percentage of cars you must consider this as an unlikely but possible scenario. There is a product on the market called an IMS guardian. Basically screws into the sump plug, it is a magnetised devise that detects any metal fragments floating through oil (which tends to occur in the lead up to an IMS failure), it alerts the driver so action can be taken prior to meltdown. My 996 is serived well looked after but will see the right hand side of the tacho. Manual cab but apologies, not for sale. Agree with driving many because they do differ (my father has a boxter). Whatever your choice best of luck.

[Niko]

Hi Awit,

I have had a 996 for 5-6 years and it has been a great car. Regular maintenance mostly. Two main issues above, I have replaced a rear main seal once. Cost me approx 500-600. IMS bearings go in about 5-8% of 996&997's. Not driving these cars 'with spirit' is worse for them. The IMS bearing does not sit in oil so a bit of 'oil splash' when driving with a bit of gusto helps. Simple other prventative maintenance, warm up, warm down, replace oil annually all common sense stuff. My mechanic does rebuild watercooled engines and cost can vary depending on damage if one does go. 10-20K so even though very small percentage of cars you must consider this as an unlikely but possible scenario. There is a product on the market called an IMS guardian. Basically screws into the sump plug, it is a magnetised devise that detects any metal fragments floating through oil (which tends to occur in the lead up to an IMS failure), it alerts the driver so action can be taken prior to meltdown. My 996 is serived well looked after but will see the right hand side of the tacho. Manual cab but apologies, not for sale. Agree with driving many because they do differ (my father has a boxter). Whatever your choice best of luck.

Hi Andy, funny you should mention that dreaded thing "IMS bearing" I have just been reading up on it on the Boxster forum U.S. and starting to get a bit scared. I actually went to JOCARO's this morning and booked mine in next week with JOCARO to put in the replacement bearing that wont go bang.

The IMS Gaurdian has also recieved good reports but it appears once the light pops on and the buzzing starts your in trouble. Stop the car there and then and flat top it to your repairer. Good thing is you hopefully won't have to replace the engine.

It seems like a bit of scare mongering type thing but after chatting with JOCARO they tell me it can happen anytime but as the cars get K's on them it starts to become more common. Hence the older cars like mine are coming unstuck 10 years down the track.

I would hate to be paying $20,000 plus for a new motor (which is what would have to be done if it does go bang) in a car of my vintage, so for $2000.00 which will include a service and a slightly leaky gearbox seal I think it is good insurance.

Say hello to your brudda for me.

[withers]

Cheers Guys...

It's not just the amount of kms tho is it as far as the IMS going bang? So if I got a 12 year old 996 or 986.. regardless of kms, would I be best factoring in the $2k for the IMS replacement and a good ole service???

Another question - is a extended warranty of any use on these cars? Don't they usually pay out a few grand towards a repair only? If anyone has any info on this I'd be appreciative of that too

I found this too - that little doovalackie can cause so much damage!

http://www.total911.com/news/porsche-996997-ims-failure-video/

[JustJames]

I'm really unconvinced about the IMS Guardian. Once it buzzes you know that there are potentially sizeable fragments of ferrous material in your oil. At which point, what do you do? Do you trust the oil filter to have caught everything? Do you strip (the engine!) to inspect?

Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted doesn't really help, no matter how soon after the departure of the nag the door is shut. The IMS Guardian really just tells you that the horse has left the building.

Far better to either find a car that has had a documented IMS upgrade, or factor it in when next the gearbox is out for a clutch replacement.

[Guest vas930]

I'm really unconvinced about the IMS Guardian. Once it buzzes you know that there are potentially sizeable fragments of ferrous material in your oil. At which point, what do you do? Do you trust the oil filter to have caught everything? Do you strip (the engine!) to inspect?

Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted doesn't really help, no matter how soon after the departure of the nag the door is shut. The IMS Guardian really just tells you that the horse has left the building.

Far better to either find a car that has had a documented IMS upgrade, or factor it in when next the gearbox is out for a clutch replacement.

+1

Thats some great advice.

[Niko]

My thoughts exactly James.

Firstly, I will feel more comfortable driving it, knowing the bloody thing isn't going to let go.

Secondly, if and when I sell it, I will feel better selling it with the documentation showing the upgrade has been completed., as well as the peace of mind that the next owner is not going to be buying a possible time bomb.

The odds are ...I guess unknown.....it may never happen....But.....

[T-Man]

Easy fix...................But a 993

[withers]

There was a 996 for sale not far from home, so I just ducked in and took a look at it.

Felt comfy to sit in... looked tough too. He then walked me around and showed me the other Porsches for sale.. I saw a lovely 993, black with the camel interior - my heart went pitter patter but at $89k it can pitter patter all it likes!