withers Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 At least I think this is a simple question! The June edition of 911 & Porsche magazine article titled "Your First Porsche" mentioned that in August 1980 the 911SC had the power upped from 188bhp to 204bhp. At this point the engine then required Super Unleaded fuel to be used. When looking at these cars, how do I know what fuel type they should run on? As I said, this might be a really simple question. But even tho I've know asked a few people I know, I still don't feel I understand this For eg I drove a 1980 911 SC, so would I need to check the VIN for build date to see if it's a Super Unleaded vehicle or is there more to it? Also, if one buys a pre-unleaded fuel car, i need to add an additive every time I fill the car right? Is there any other ongoing maintenance required to keep things all happy? Thanks in advance guys. I really hope I'm not filling this forum up with crappy stupid questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Super does not exist anymore and was phased out around the same time I was still able to drive to Bankstown airport and legally buy a tank of gas for my car at 85 cents a kites. Mine is 78SC and I run premium unleaded no worries. I've even heard regular is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Hang on is super now called regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 22August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Yeh I knew Super wasn't around... but thats where I got confused lol So you just run your 78 on Premium Unleaded and no extra additives? Super is Regular? Or is unleaded now regular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vas930 Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Its a fair question, Amanda. 95 oc is fine in the older Porshes, you dont need to use an additive. Plenty of people use 98 as well, but it does not make any more power in a stock engine. On the older turbo cars with higher boost or the non turbo engine with higher compression than stock it may help. So, just plain old 95 is all you need. This may help http://www.fuelsaving.info/fuels.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 There are two aspects to this question: One is leaded vs unleaded, and the other is the octane number. The history of the overlap of these is an interesting one. Lead compounds were added to fuel used in aircraft in WWII, as a way of boosting octane ratings to allow supercharged piston engines to run higher boost without pre-detonation (also known as knock, pinking or pinging) occurring. As a side effect, engineers discovered that valve seats were not wearing, because the lead compounds acted as upper cylinder lubricants. That provided the basis for lead additives in fuel until sometime around the 70's lead additives, which are nasty things, started being phased out for environmental reasons. In addition to being nasty in production and creating nasty compounds when burnt, lead additives destroy catalytic converters, which help modern cars fart rainbows. Porsches from the 60's onwards will happily run unleaded fuel, without any additives but the recommendation is to run the highest octane rating available. The higher octane reduces the risk of pre-detonation, and as it is a premium fuel, oil companies may use a better detergent additive pack. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Porsches run better on 98 than on 95, and really, why wouldn't you? These are premium cars, you take them the premium service professionals, run them on premium oils, contact the planet via premium tyres, so why skimp on a few cents a litre when it comes to fuel? As Vas correctly says, higher octane does not on its own make more power, what it does do is allow forced compression engines to run higher boost and all engines to run more ignition advance and/or higher compression as ways of making more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Don't want to start a brand war but I suggest NOT using Shell premium. It's OK in modern cars but no good for older cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Don't want to start a brand war but I suggest NOT using Shell premium. It's OK in modern cars but no good for older cars. I used to use it all the time (located near where I was living at the time). Then I got wind of several bad reports and have never used it since.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 22August, 2012 Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Don't want to start a brand war but I suggest NOT using Shell premium. It's OK in modern cars but no good for older cars. What would be considered an older car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 22August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 22August, 2012 Well that sounds easy then. Run 98 in all Porsches I run it now in the GTI.. so its a no brainer. I'd been asking people that weren't familiar with the P marque and getting all kinds of answers. So thanks guys! I've been putting the Shell premium in my car because it's convenient to home.. should I stop using it in that car too? EDIT: It's also another plus to the classic 911. I was thinking i had to fill it with premium and add some other additive at every fill up. Meh, that would have driven me bonkas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 Re: which brand to use... In a previous life I did a fair amount of work for oil companies. Consider the following: there are either one or two refineries in each Aussie state or territory. The oil companies share refineries and tank farms. When a tanker fills up, if they are taking say 5,000 litres of 98 octane fuel, they fill up with something in the order of 4,997 litres of vanilla 98 octane and 3 litres of additive. All the advertising and claims around how wonderful a particular oil company's petrol is come down to the additive. In my opinion, you are likely to see more variability between servo's of a particular brand than between brands. The usual advice - and I don't honestly know how useful it is - is to use a servo that is busy, to ensure that you get "fresh" fuel but avoid using storage tanks that have just been filled because the new fuel going in stirs up all the crud that accumulates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-banger Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 This previous thread may also help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 23August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 This previous thread may also help... That is a very useful link thanks Doug. 6 week petrol life span, very interesting indeed. I knew fuel went off, but didn't think it would be so quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 Re: which brand to use... In my opinion, you are likely to see more variability between servo's of a particular brand than between brands. Yep definitely agree - times I get a tank and my distance to empty is 50 kms less when all things being equal is surprising. And times I get a tank and it feels like my accelerator has been remapped or someone has added some boost is amazing. I feel it is the 'freshness' of the fuel that carries more combustibles. Makes sense as these aromatic hydrocarbons evaporate readily and are highly volatile so will disipate quickly and are what give alot of energy. This particular occurence of 'fresh, boosty fuel' is not all that often though. The usual advice - and I don't honestly know how useful it is - is to use a servo that is busy, to ensure that you get "fresh" fuel Yes, definitely agree with this. I only fill at really busy highway servos and pretty much the same ones. But I believe the issue of 'fresh' fuel is reliant on the fuel stores at the tank farms and not at the suburban outlets as these would be turning over the fuel at a much higher rate. My guess is when they run a fresh brew at the refinery it is this that gives us our happy place behind the wheel and it sits at the terminal for weeks getting stale as it is distributed. but avoid using storage tanks that have just been filled because the new fuel going in stirs up all the crud that accumulates. Most definitely agree with this one, I never pull in to servos with tankers parked on the hard stand and avoid filling really late at night as this is when the delivery tankers are usually there. Had to spend just shy of a grand to get fuel lines cleaned, fuel filters replaced and injectors cleaned once (not on a P) because of dirty fuel probably caused by sediment being stirred up in the inground tank at the servo. And on this point, if you are not aware already, P L E A S E__N O T E - I M P O R T A N T never, ever try and restart your car if you have RUN OUT OF FUEL. ESPECIALLY IN OLDER VEHICLES! Modern cars that use tanks made of plastics aren't as susceptible but I still would never, ever, ever, ever let my car run out of fuel and would never EVER try to restart or crank it once it has conked out for the very same reason. That any sediment or rusted parts of metal based fuel tanks end up sitting in the bottom of the tank and you are going to pump this sediment through your fuel pump and fuel system and cause some serious grief to yourself, your car and your wallet. I used to use it all the time (located near where I was living at the time). Then I got wind of several bad reports and have never used it since.............. I recall that the fuel in question was the old 'optimax' shell was selling that had a compound in it that caused some motors to seize from a carbonous residue forming and shell had to pay for some motors to be replaced. I have and only ever use vpower, and used vpower racing exclusively prior to them discontinuing it because i DO notice more effortless running and a slight enthusiasm in power when I use this fuel. I always seek it out on SMT's and ensure if I need to refuel that I know where a shell is. If I ever am stuck without a shell available (along the great ocean road at apollo bay for example) I will put in just enough to get me to a shell! And minimum RON (octane) is 95 for our cars. With the cost of going to 98 being less than a couple of double shot cafe lattes or a cheap quaffer, why wouldn't you? As James states, we are here for a premium experience, pay premium prices for everything else, why scrimp on the one thing this entire machine is designed to transform into forward momentum? I have receipts to prove every fill is vpower from shell should anything every occur to my vehicle that is found to be fuel related, I will be hitting shell up for damages. No way they can point the finger at another fuel company as being the cause. I am a bit OCD about all this I guess, but run all my vehicles on shell because I try to learn from the first f-up. All my fuel purchases are documented with receipts from every fill. Have it all prepared should I ever need to lawyer up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 What would be considered an older car? Older cars – anything without a computer. I have a number of older cars and when I run them on Shell they idle badly, lag on throttle opening and just generally don’t have good pick up. Changed to BP Ultra and after a tank or two cars behave much better and run smoother. Race car - same deal. Using additives made no or little difference to the shell. I use Shell 98 in the DD and it runs fine. Totally agree with the fresh is best theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 Interesting re the Shell comment - had a older bike play up terribly straight after a fill once and then it conked out. Tried lots of things and then drained the tank as a last resort - presto fired up and ran like a well oiled machine. Could never prove it however on bike forums many say Shell is a no go (premium fuel) under any circumstance. Good reading - thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveF Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 Thanks everyone. Interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 One night I filled up my petrol engined 320 Beemer with diesel back many years ago. Apart from being embarrasing it was a real PI the A. When I spoke to the attendant when paying for it.....know what he said.....your not the first one to do that with that pump, it,s badly marked, we have been going to get it fixed. My fault, should have realized it but ..... The old Beemer kept going...just... But it meant I was topping up with petrol at just about every servo I came across for the next fortnight. I can see the funny side now but was P.O'd back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vas930 Posted 23August, 2012 Report Share Posted 23August, 2012 Worth a look. Some facts and dyno results. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4boT3iwgZKI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tungatina64 Posted 24August, 2012 Report Share Posted 24August, 2012 this topic is very interesting. I haven't been too fussy about suppliers, however always go for the higher octane level. I was under the impression that Shell was the best, but will now give BP a try over a period of time and see if I notice a difference. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 24August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 24August, 2012 Shell marketing would have you believe it's the best! Those Ferrari commercials.. remember them? like this Oooh this one is fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 24August, 2012 Report Share Posted 24August, 2012 Loved those adverts - not seen them before and especially liked the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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