SteamWolf Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Hi all, my '82 SC has factory air fitted (allegedly?) which of course does not function. I'd like to get it working even if it's rubbish, as I'd rather it work or not be on the car at all. But it seems to be different from all the other AC I have seen. I have attached some pictures to it. One thing that I'm not sure about because I have not had the time to jack the car up and look, is the front cooler. pretty sure it's engine oil, but I thought the 911 didn't get a fan forced cooler until the '89? It is fed by a tiny axial fan. Note the lack of anything AC related in the passenger footwell. Cooler under the front bar. '82 original? Fed by this tiny fan Can anyone tell me if it was factory air, or aftermarket dealer fitted? Any common areas where they fail? Any improvements that can be made before it's regassed? Compressor is a modern rotary type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 This is factory air. You can check by running the VIN to Jason Pascoe at Porsche australia and he will tell you what options the car was delivered new with. to me, this looks like factory air. The oil cooler is in the RHS front Guard. The fan motor you have pictured is the front heat exchanger air supply. And you are right, even when it is working, its complete shite(in australian summers anyway) If you are going to spen any $$$ on this system I would strongly recommend Rennaire : http://www.rennaire.com/ To replace the factory fitted system with something that will actually work and cost you only a small(relative) premium over OEM components. If you don't want to spend the $$, just remove it completely and save some weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 9December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Thanks for that. The Rennair system looks good and in line with any other new AC package as far as price goes. Looks like it uses the stock (tiny) condenser though. I may as well remove it all for the time being then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Lots of interesting reading here http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/ice/ Certainly challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Thanks for that. The Rennair system looks good and in line with any other new AC package as far as price goes. Looks like it uses the stock (tiny) condenser though. I may as well remove it all for the time being then! I believe they do supply a larger Condenser that is mounted in the front LHS wheel well............ Lots of interesting reading here http://www.griffiths...porsche/ac/ice/ Certainly challenging. Indeed it is challenging! The 993 system was the first factory one that I thought worked well. Even the 964 was a bit off. I always say its not as bad as a front engined car as all the heat is left behind you and doesn't have to pass around the passenger cell............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 my 78 SC suggests it has AC with the obligatory fan speed knob and theromstat knob on the console....I have to say it does sort of try to work, which suprises me. That said, I wouldnt want to bet my life on it getting stubby to a drinkable temp though.....!! I thought James at Autohaus in a previous post had a solution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 9December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Yeah he did but to be honest air similar to leaving the fridge door open is not worth five grand to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 on my list of "things to do over the christmas break' - remove the remnants of the a/c in the front end of my '80 SC. I've driven it for 5 years without a/c and haven't missed it. PO started the removal 20 years ago, it's about time the weight watchers job was finished. Any tips/advice on removing the condenser, pipes etc shown in Steamwolfs pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 have a grinding disc handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Yeah he did but to be honest air similar to leaving the fridge door open is not worth five grand to me. SteamWolf, the Autohaus Hamilton aircon setup really does work. Whether the price tag makes it a priority for any individual is a different question though. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 9December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 James, the rennair stuff seems to come in at about $1500+p, and fixing the current system should be about half that if there's no broken bits (doesn't seem to be). I care enough about A/C to want to fix it for under a couple of grand. I don't care enough about it to spend the same money as some pretty darn good go fast bits! I have since read some excellent reports about the Autohaus system and I'm confident it's be the best functional option available. For me though, it's low on the list of things I want to spend that much money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 James, the rennair stuff seems to come in at about $1500+p, and fixing the current system should be about half that if there's no broken bits (doesn't seem to be). I care enough about A/C to want to fix it for under a couple of grand. I don't care enough about it to spend the same money as some pretty darn good go fast bits! I have since read some excellent reports about the Autohaus system and I'm confident it's be the best functional option available. For me though, it's low on the list of things I want to spend that much money on. All good! And I understand the wish to be faster rather than cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 Open the sunroof if you need to let out hot air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 Well, having factory AC on my future Porsche is important. I'll be spending money on upgraded air as a priority when the one finally rolls in the drive. That griffiths link was very interesting, so thanks for posting that. It's good to know there are options, and you can work your way through upgrades until it starts giving cold enough air. There's just too much time spent schlepping along at the speed limit or in traffic to ignore AC IMHO. While I agree that windows down, WOT you wouldn't want air on, at least having an option will get you out in the car more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 If it's any consolation I feel your pain. Have an air conditioner, but alas i believe the evaporator is gone. Massive job on a 993 as the fuel tank and a heap of other gear on the firewall needs to be removed. +1 on the sunroof idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 11December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 Would it be too cheeky if I listed the old stuff for sale? I live in Newcastle which means summer is either 43°C and 0% humidity when the westerly blows, or 43°C and 200 billion % humidity when the breeze comes from anywhere else. It's on those few days A/C is really needed. So while the car is not used every day, it's the days I can't ride or walk that I need to use it, and it's those days that are so darn hot or bucketing rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 11December, 2012 Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 SteamWolf- I think AC is one of those things people are naturally shy about touching or getting involved with as they are pretty complex. But start thinking of it as a different type of cooling system and it gets easier. First thing is to make sure all the parts are there. Second is to make sure there are no leaks. After that you have to start looking at pressures, blockages. From all the bits and pieces I have read the 911 AC system fails because there isn't enough radiator (condenser) and because the water pump isn't big enough (compressor). So you get a better compressor (thankfully tech has moved on a lot) and you get a bigger, or more, condenser, and see where that gets you. So you might be able to fix and improve things in stages, rather than going big-bang. New compressor, new hoses, extra condenser. I paid big bucks for an AC repair on my car a few years back, and I've regretted it ever since, because I found out that the guy who did it didn't have the first clue about AC - he just paid someone to empty the system, swapped out the parts, then paid the guy to fill it back up again. I could have done that, and I could have obtained the parts much cheaper. It's really no more complicated than a cooling system or power steering system, but it will often involve removing lots of stuff to get at the components. That is what often drives the prices up, plus frankly stupid prices for items like compressors. On reselling old bits - most people would be gun-shy about putting used AC components in. It's one of those things where, if you're going to take the time to do it, you put in new bits. Personally I get surprised when I see people taking all the stuff out as 'heavy'. I've no doubt that if you're making a track weapon 10 or 20 kilos of stuff will help. But for a street driven car, well, hit the gym and lose 10 kgs and keep the aircon, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 11December, 2012 Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 have a grinding disc handy. Sounds drastic! Where would I need that? [edit] I got it all out without needing a grinder. Bolts and hose flanges all undid quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 11December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 Coastr, yeah thanks. I''ll document the removal process and any upgrades as I go so anyone else playing with a.c. can get a head start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 11December, 2012 Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 Coastr, yeah thanks. I''ll document the removal process and any upgrades as I go so anyone else playing with a.c. can get a head start. Hey SW , I'll race ya! Nothing better to do tonight than get my hands dirty finishing off the a/c exorcism. Photos and notes will be in "what did you do..." thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepo Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Hi Steam Wolf, I'll be watching closely to see what improvements you make and how well they work. Some time ago, I spent just over a grand getting my A/C working. Looked at replacing worn parts (evaporator), fixing leaks and re-gas. It did blow coolish air for a short time, but never really made much diff on a hot day and I never worried about getting it re-checked when it stopped working after 12 months. I think next time I revisit the issue; I'll be looking at new improved hose set end to end, new compressor, and possibly two small thermo fans over the condenser in the tail. I like the look of the Rennaire subcooler, so may go the System II package http://shop.rennaire...02?categoryId=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Those pro es seem very reasonable to me. Many shops will quote prices of $1500 just for a new compressor on many cars plus fitting. I visited an ac shop once where a Honda civic owner was presented with a $2k bill for a new compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 SteamWolf- I think AC is one of those things people are naturally shy about touching or getting involved with as they are pretty complex. But start thinking of it as a different type of cooling system and it gets easier. First thing is to make sure all the parts are there. Second is to make sure there are no leaks. After that you have to start looking at pressures, blockages. From all the bits and pieces I have read the 911 AC system fails because there isn't enough radiator (condenser) and because the water pump isn't big enough (compressor). So you get a better compressor (thankfully tech has moved on a lot) and you get a bigger, or more, condenser, and see where that gets you. So you might be able to fix and improve things in stages, rather than going big-bang. New compressor, new hoses, extra condenser. I paid big bucks for an AC repair on my car a few years back, and I've regretted it ever since, because I found out that the guy who did it didn't have the first clue about AC - he just paid someone to empty the system, swapped out the parts, then paid the guy to fill it back up again. I could have done that, and I could have obtained the parts much cheaper. It's really no more complicated than a cooling system or power steering system, but it will often involve removing lots of stuff to get at the components. That is what often drives the prices up, plus frankly stupid prices for items like compressors. On reselling old bits - most people would be gun-shy about putting used AC components in. It's one of those things where, if you're going to take the time to do it, you put in new bits. Personally I get surprised when I see people taking all the stuff out as 'heavy'. I've no doubt that if you're making a track weapon 10 or 20 kilos of stuff will help. But for a street driven car, well, hit the gym and lose 10 kgs and keep the aircon, I say. No Air Con is a good way to lose weight both for the driver and the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamWolf Posted 9January, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 9January, 2016 update:I removed the last of the A/C from the car yesterday. The evaporator in the dash is the most bodgey looking poorly made piece of crap I've ever seen. It looks very back yard. Complete with bits of white plumbing PVC pipe.I am still hoping to replace it with a better system. I'm keen on the Autohaus solution but will check out other options. Anyone have a picture of what the evap bits look like on other SC's? Here's the unit. The tray at the top sits under the scuttle. The box is pop riveted together. water runs down through the unit and out the drain hole, but as the riveted box isn't sealed, water just drips into the cabin! I'll be doing something with this for sure.Any other Aus solutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 9January, 2016 Report Share Posted 9January, 2016 here is the system removed from my 81 930, note the smaller rear condenser designed to fit"physically" in the tea tray next to the intercooler when the lid is closed.and the "new" upgrade system that is going in (very slowly)Most of the old system is surplus to needs. Upgrade uses the old cases, vents and thermostat. This is the Retroair system.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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