oz951 Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 I'm in the middle of diagnosing a no start issue after my 99 C2 failed to start. My question is, when turning the ignition key to on, can you hear the faint whine of the fuel pump operating for a few seconds to prime the fuel lines ? I know my 944 fuel pump operates for 5 seconds or so after turning the key on (before cranking). I've checked my fuel pump fuse and that is fine. I've checked the fuel pump relay and the terminals 30/87 short correctly when 12v is applied across the solenoid coil. So it appears functional. I've jumpered pins 30/87 at the relay mount and the fuel pump can be heard operating. So it is functional. However when I turn the ignition key on there is no sound of the fuel pump priming the lines. That surprises me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 I am not at all up todate on 996 keys but do they run a coded style key at all? Have you tried using your 2nd key? I only ask as my Jeep had a dud spare key that would unlock the car etc but when you turned the ignition on it would not prime the fuel pump but would crank the motor. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caver Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Yes, I hear my fuel pump priming for a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 31January, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Thanks Uncle & Caver. I just tried my alternate key, no difference there. Based on the fact that you can hear your pump running Caver, I bypassed the relay and powered the pump directly to get it running during cranking but still no joy so I will progress to the next thing which I suspect (Water in Fuel) but is more work to check. The car was running fine until I put 58L of fuel in it on Tuesday at which point it died and would not re start at the petrol station where I filled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Do the 996s have a DME relay. Seems to be the no start reason for most Porsches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 31January, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Hi Theo, no I don't see a traditional DME relay. I have established that the DME is not providing an earth path for the fuel pump relay when the ignition is turned on ( so no fuel pump operation). So I am wondering if something else is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 31January, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Well it turns out is was a bad load of fuel afterall. Well over a litre of water mixed with my petrol. Not happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Bugger! I'd be doing some yelling about that mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 NOT HAPPY JAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Well it turns out is was a bad load of fuel afterall. Well over a litre of water mixed with my petrol. Not happy! Can I ask where you bought the fuel? Major sevice station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 31January, 2013 Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 Happened to me with my bike some years back. I was absolutely livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 31January, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 31January, 2013 It was a 7/11, on a busy rd. I will post up a pic of the jars of water/fuel I have collected when I get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 1February, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 1February, 2013 Here is the pic of the fuel/water mix. This pic shows the jars of fuel pumped out of the tank at the fuel filter connection. The jars are numbered in the order the fuel came out. Jar2 and 4 are a different colour because the fuel was pumped into my oil catch can initially and then transferred to a jar whereas the others went straight into the jars. Jar 1 is 99% water and there are decreasing amounts of water in all the later jars as can be seen in the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 1February, 2013 Report Share Posted 1February, 2013 oz951, My company does some work with UG fuel tanks & testing. Can I ask is the site you purchased the fuel from an old site? i.e been around for years despite rebranding, we find most older servos have UG tanks that leak either through the walls or around the filler necks. In periods of high rainfall they are more susceptible to water ingress especially if the fuel level is low in the tank therefore the water concentration increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9fan Posted 1February, 2013 Report Share Posted 1February, 2013 Hi Oz, I'd be going back to the fuel outlet and video filming the filling of other glass containers to try and get direct evidence. This may help in compensation for any mechanical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 1February, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 1February, 2013 Hi Oz, I'd be going back to the fuel outlet and video filming the filling of other glass containers to try and get direct evidence. This may help in compensation for any mechanical issues. I'll definitely be going to talk to the garage owner. I had an independent witness observe the fuel being drawn from the tank. I also have witnesses who observed the car fail to start at the petrol station and who subsequently helped me get the car on a trailer to take it away. So I think those bases are reasonably well covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 3February, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 3February, 2013 I had some time to address the water in fuel issue today. I pumped out abou t 18Litres of fuel from the tank in addition tohin the 5 or so litres in the jars before I was satisfied that the fuel coming out of the tank was free of water. I used clear plastic tubing which had a dip between the the car and the jerry can and it was actually pretty easy to see even the tiniest of water droplets rolling down hill in the clear tube after the flow from the pump was halted. Once I was satisfied that the water in the tank was gone I reconnected the fuel pressure line and forced the good fuel through the filter fuel rail injectors etc all the way back to the tank but I collected that mix of good and bad fuel just before it got to the fuel tank return inlet. It took about another 10L of flushing before the fuel flushing the fuel rail was free of water. I think at this time the water was mostly eliminated but there would still have been minor amounts in the injectors and nooks and crannies in the fuel system. The car started on the 3rd attempt ran rough for a few seconds whilst I held it at high idle and then settled down reasonably quickly. I let it idle for 10 mins or so and then turned it off. An hour later I went for a 15-20 min drive. The drive was mostly ok with a slight hesitation here and there. At the 10 min mark there was a slightly more notable hesitation for a second or so and the check engine light came on. (presumably misfire due to a slug of water - but I cant confirm as I dont have my durametric with me at the moment) .. The car continued running ok, never really felt like it was going to stall or anything. I took it home another 10 mins with no dramas. An hour later I took it out again for a 15 min drive and added 20 Litres of Vpower and some injector cleaner to my tank which was now sitting at about 1/4. There was only the one moment of hesitation as I left the servo, otherwise it drive fine. haven't really done any aggressive acceleration / high injector load yet but it seems to be doing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 3February, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 3February, 2013 PS, if you need to drain the tank as I did, the fuel line connections are underneath the plate that the battery sits on. The connector with the green plug and a V is the line to the furl rail and the line with a grey plug is the return line from the fuel rail. The fuel pump can be powered by bridging the fuel pump relay pins 30 & 87 in the relay socket above the fuse panel in the drivers footwell. The challenge is that the battery has to be out of the car to access the top of the fuel tank and you need some good snug fitting tubing to carry the fuel well away to a jerry can several meters from the car in order to avoid issues with sparks and fuel vapours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 14February, 2013 Report Share Posted 14February, 2013 What a disgrace. Pleased to hear you got it sorted. Hope there's no legacy issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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