Stepo Posted 5November, 2013 Report Share Posted 5November, 2013 Also interested to see how it turns out Russ. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randall Posted 6November, 2013 Report Share Posted 6November, 2013 .................. Are you going for a Kuehl, Retroair or Rennaire setup or are you going to cherry pick bits and pieces from each supplier as they each seem to have their good and bad points?....................................... Seems like you have done a bit of research yourself. Which are the good/bad bits in each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glom1098 Posted 6November, 2013 Report Share Posted 6November, 2013 Hi mate Before spending $$$ on a complete retrofit you may want to consider regassing with HYchill or R12a-its a refrigerant suited to old systems that used R12 and rejects heat much better than R134a. The downside is that it is a derivative of propane and therefore flammable. Theres lots of information on their website if you do a search for Hychill. I redid all the lines in my 81sc with a rennaire procooler but with stock condensors and evaporator and filled with hychill. The result is not superb but acceptable-after you let the hot air out you can run on a hot day with all windows and the sunroof closed in comfort. A/c is one of those upgrades where it appears much can be spent but the reality of the value is not clear. Lukas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 7November, 2013 Report Share Posted 7November, 2013 For all the Melbournians that wanted to know where my compressor got done up it was Nippon Air Parts in Mitcham, that's about all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 7November, 2013 Report Share Posted 7November, 2013 Hi mate Before spending $$$ on a complete retrofit you may want to consider regassing with HYchill or R12a-its a refrigerant suited to old systems that used R12 and rejects heat much better than R134a. The downside is that it is a derivative of propane and therefore flammable. Theres lots of information on their website if you do a search for Hychill. I redid all the lines in my 81sc with a rennaire procooler but with stock condensors and evaporator and filled with hychill. The result is not superb but acceptable-after you let the hot air out you can run on a hot day with all windows and the sunroof closed in comfort. A/c is one of those upgrades where it appears much can be spent but the reality of the value is not clear. Lukas Thanks Lukas, easy but interesting read on hydrocarbon refrigerants and using their HR12 substitute for R12/R134a: http://www.hychill.com.au/ As for the flammability of the 405g charge of hydrocarbons, it will probably cause me less grief than the 85 litres in the tank! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 7November, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 7November, 2013 I hear of people using propane as a refrigerant and it is really cold for a while, until it goes bang it sounds good though, and they mention it can be used in vehicles so it sounds like a great product I'm starting with no air con system so i'm going to have to build it from scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 7November, 2013 Report Share Posted 7November, 2013 Seems like you have done a bit of research yourself. Which are the good/bad bits in each?Randall,Yes, I've had a bit a hunt around and been frankly surprised at how hostile the forums become. Also the snake oil merchants are ripe too! Like most things I think there are horses for courses depending on whether you want an upgrade kit or a complete system for example. For me, I'm thinking a Retroair upgrade kit plus their evaporator blower and maybe a Kuehl (Griffith) or Retroair front condenser if warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 9November, 2013 Report Share Posted 9November, 2013 Got a quote from Retroair today:Peter,The Upgrade Kit with optional Upgraded [evaporator]Blower will cost $1560.00 USD plus Fedex Economy Air freight of $303.00 USD for a total of $1863.00 USD. Unless your Compressor is fairly new, I recommend replacing it so the efficiency will match our efficient parts.Thank you.Best Regards,Rock BrowningRetroAir- Mr Jaguar800-840-6162- 972-239-4272rockb@retroair.com www.retroair.comThe main difference between the Retroair and the Kuehl(Griffith) upgrade kits is that Retro supply the rear condenser and Kuehl supply the front as standard.Also Retroair supply hose kits specially for RHD while with Kuehl it looks like you need to spend an extra hundred bucks on an extra hose: http://www.griffiths.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_16_17_23_104_80_135&products_id=226Although some of the Kuehl stuff looks good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 26November, 2013 Report Share Posted 26November, 2013 To the above price also need to add customs duty ($82), import something or other ($40), GST ($206) and AQIS entry charge ($15) or $344.08 in total.Now that it has passed painlessly (!) through customs, the bits should be here Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 26November, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 26November, 2013 sounds good - I'll be keen to see/hear how it goes starting to slowly get bits for this, going with: Rotary (Sanden i think) compressor from a 3.6 Lines from a 964, need to find out if they're the type designed to weep refrigerant (or if I can use them as is without getting them copied) Evaporator/Blower from a 964 Still need to find the relays etc for the above, as well as investigate the Behr under dash additional vents Still need to order one of the Kuehl condensers too so at this rate hopefully i'll have it installed by next summer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 26November, 2013 Report Share Posted 26November, 2013 Russ,Are you sure it not easier and cheaper just to buy a complete kit like: http://retroair.com/porscheairconditioning/911930noacfullkit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 26November, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 26November, 2013 it hasn't been so far - I'm thinking I should get it installed and running for under $1500. wonder if I can buy the under dash stuff seperately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 1December, 2013 Report Share Posted 1December, 2013 Got the AC degassed at the local Ultra tune at Wallsend on Saturday so I could start work.Spent quite a few hours on my back today under my car getting dirt in my eyes and thinking how good a set of SSI's and a Dansk 2 into 1 would be, why aren't I paying someone to do this for me, this car is in great condition, I need to lose weight, do I really want to buy a 993 as well, what's for lunch, were they serious when they designed this AC setup.........Anyway, got the back half done with the new rear condenser and the long hoses part way installed. There is no way the rear condeser could be any bigger as it only just fits when the lid is closed.Hoses everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberpunky Posted 2December, 2013 Report Share Posted 2December, 2013 Air con fixed and cold but alas my fan controller may be on the blink. It has been working intermittently like if I go over a bump or fiddle with the controller but I drove it today and it flicked on once. The air con mechanic thinks it may be the brushes in the motor but I don't think so because it works on high if you hit the windscreen defrost button. It will be either the switch itself(most likely IMO) or possibly the resistors under the plastic cover between the bonnet lip and window that goes over the HVAC blowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 2December, 2013 Report Share Posted 2December, 2013 Yep checked that cyberpunky and all ok it's definitely the fan switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 2December, 2013 Report Share Posted 2December, 2013 I have a mate who installed the retro-air kit (the no air kit not the upgrade) to his C3.0 about 4 to 5 years ago and is very happy with the result. He installed it himself over a period of two weeks after work, only problem was one hoses was too long and he had to have it shortened. I also know of people using propane as a refrigerant without any issues at all and no big bang !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 3December, 2013 Report Share Posted 3December, 2013 Thanks Oz for that encouragement. I haven't come across any negative comment about the retro-air stuff, so was confident to fork out the cash.Hose lengths look OK so far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 15December, 2013 Report Share Posted 15December, 2013 Old and new bits for comparisonNew bits dry fitted to check clearances etc. I fitted the new mount on the "fan" side of the mount to make more clearance between the motor and the evaporator core while still ensuring the gap between the fan and the mount was small for good efficiency. I used CA and "kicker" to bond the mount to the new plate as well as the provided screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 15December, 2013 Report Share Posted 15December, 2013 I'm continually surprised at how different the RHD AC is set up in comparison to the more commonly photographed LHD ones. The speed controller resistor/bimetal switch is removed with the Retroair upgrade kit as the new motor uses different separate windings to give the different fan speeds. The resulting "hole" in the duct was covered with a simple light gauge metal plate. I used Sikaflex 291i to seal the joints on the new mounting plate. I also used it to join the front and back cases since the mounting tabs on the front case were damaged. However I did "recut" the tabs with my Dremel so that I can use the standard clips to help hold it all together. I did get a quote for a new front case - the simple one shown below - but the $400 price tag made it an easy decision to repair the one I had.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 15December, 2013 Report Share Posted 15December, 2013 Also got the wiring changes done too for the new fan speed control arrangement and the dryer pressure safety switch which ideally should have been done when it was first regassed in 134a. Minimised the modifications so I can easily return to stock if I ever miss the gentle puff of cool air that the factory AC gives!Also found the "long" hose today Oz! It's the short low pressure hose that connects between the evaporator and the hose that comes up the smugglers box. I'll probably carefully cut the crimp off and shorten it myself and then get someone to re-crimp it for me.I guess it could be worse and be too short.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 15December, 2013 Author Report Share Posted 15December, 2013 That looks good! I'm going to close up everything apart from recirculate to eliminate leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 16December, 2013 Report Share Posted 16December, 2013 Also found the "long" hose today Oz! It's the short low pressure hose that connects between the evaporator and the hose that comes up the smugglers box. I'll probably carefully cut the crimp off and shorten it myself and then get someone to re-crimp it for me. I guess it could be worse and be too short.... That's pretty much what the mate did. Maybe someone should tell Rock ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 16December, 2013 Report Share Posted 16December, 2013 Yes, planning on sending some photos, some feedback on his instructions and a correct hose length to Rock. I've been continually surprised by some of the huge differences between the LHD and RHD installations.All in all I've been pretty happy with the quality and fit of his AC bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 22December, 2013 Report Share Posted 22December, 2013 A few more photos! The "long" hose was the RHD adapter hose that is used by all RHD factory setups. It appears that Retroair have never actually had a RHD car to work from and have relied on advice from others plus some photos of a RHD '76 model that has an evaporator core with the outlet at the top rather than the bottom like all factory installs and required extra length to "loop" around: This is the length it needs to be (363mm from centreline of right angle end to very end of the straight fitting): All installed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 22December, 2013 Report Share Posted 22December, 2013 All working now however I'm not convinced I have the right refrigerant charge as my "technicians" were a bit disorganised and I've done a bit of reading up on how this is supposed to be done since then!Anyway, at an ambient temperature of 24C yesterday at a steady 100kph I was getting a air vent temperature that cycled between 4 and 7 degrees C as the thermostat turned the compressor on and off.Today being hotter (28-30) this morning and idling around town doing errands with much less airflow through the main condenser gave a vent temperature of 7 to 10 degrees C. I would not have even considered driving this car previously in similar conditions but was comfortable with the AC on.The more powerful evaporator fan works a treat but being an '85, the size of the "slit" side vents are still a limiting factor and increasing the airflow is now the next obstacle to improving comfort.Maybe a pair of DuehlKuehl vents for Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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