acid_rider Posted 13March, 2014 Report Share Posted 13March, 2014 greetings everyone i am continuing my research into buying a old Generation I (997.1) of non-turbo Carrera, ~2004-2005 builds, the ones with infamous 'IMS bearing problems' and 'scored cylinder' problems and RMS problems (scary topics!!!!). I prefer to buy automatic car, these cars have the 5-speed Tiptronic automatic. Does this 5-speed Tiptronic automatic transmission suffer from any reliability or longevity issues?? How long (distance or time or both) do you expect Tiptronic automatic to last before a rebuild, on model 996/997 cars?? If the worst happens - approximately what sum of money is required to rebuild this Tiptronic transmission?? is there anything else I should be aware of when owning Tiptronic model 996/997 car? THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hounddub Posted 13March, 2014 Report Share Posted 13March, 2014 I'm no technical expert mate, but everything I looked into when I bought mine said the Tipper was one of the best engineered components on the car. If my info is correct I think it's a Merc box originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 14March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 14March, 2014 thanks! So at least the tip-shift auto (thanks to M-B?) appears to be sound. God knows the water cooled engines in 996 and 997.1 have plenty to be worried about. thanks for you reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hounddub Posted 14March, 2014 Report Share Posted 14March, 2014 Personally I think you're possibly over- worrying. I looked at the IMS issues and bought a car, look after it well and havent looked back. My sense of it having worked for other manufacturers over the years is that all cars have "issues", some are well publicised some not. There seems to my opinion an over emohasis on the IMS weakness mainly because Porsche has had a reputation for flawless engineering. Thus, there is a tendancy to make "mountains out of molehills" and fear can spread very fast. Looking at the pure facts shows that if you take the right precautions you will need to be very unlucky to have a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiny Posted 14March, 2014 Report Share Posted 14March, 2014 +1 I too researched all the 'stuff' about IMS failure and still bought a gen 1 997 (2005). It's a great machine and sure, there's times when you might read something which get you anxious but it's seriously over-hyped. They do fail, but it's not a 100% failure rate. Like everything, you hear more the bad, rather than the good news stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 14March, 2014 Report Share Posted 14March, 2014 Question acid_rider.... Have you taken a 911 for a drive yet? I too feel like your worrying maybe a bit too much. You are obviously wise to do all this research and have come to the right place. But i'd love to see your logical left brain hang on to this just a little more loosely and let the emotional right brain just LOVE driving a 911. Decisions are made first emotionally and justified/rationalised with logic that we find to back it up. Just go drive one! I were minutes into my test drive and KNEW I were going to buy it! Actually, I think it was at the end of the street, turning onto the main rd and accelerating for the first time - Sold! And if you have problems down the road, you'll be so emotionally invested in the car that you will have no trouble justifying the repair bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 15March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 15March, 2014 thanks to everyone for their replies. I have not driven the car - not found anything in my price range at the dealers yet. I look forward to driving it, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 15March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 15March, 2014 I just test drove 997.1 automatic Carrera-2 at Porsche Brighton dealer. Dealer said the tiptronic is indeed from Mercedes-Benz in 997.1. He claimed that in normal driving conditions the tiptronic should last a very long time before rebuild, perhaps 250,000km or more. He claimed the 997.1 engine should also last at least as long if properly maintained and not raced, etc. I mentioned the IMS bearing and he said this did not affect the 997 engine cars, only the 996 model and only until about 2001-2002. Would you agree with these opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t888 Posted 15March, 2014 Report Share Posted 15March, 2014 No. The early 997.1 engines have the same design problem as the 996 engines. The M96 engine from the 996 continued on into the Carrera model, and the M97 engine used in the Carrera S has the same design problem. Basically, it can happen that the bearings at the end of the IMS don't get enough lubrication, and can end up splintering into pieces, then finding their way into the engine, causing catastrophic failure. Cars built after around Feb/March 2005 - the specific date of changeover is unclear - use a modified design that seems far less prone to issues. This revised design uses two rows of bearings and appears to be much more reliable. So if you're concerned, your strategy can either be to buy one built after march 2005, or one before that and have the fix applied ASAP. To keep things in perspective, it only seems to effect around 5% of owners. Alternatively if it's not an issue, perhaps the selling dealer can put a warranty for the engine in writing. In the US there was a class action lawsuit about all this. www.imsporschesettlement.com In my research I haven't identified any particular issues with the tiptronic, except that being of that vintage it's nowhere near as fast or smooth as present-day auto transmissions. I'm sure others will know more about this! Some people have the view that since the tiptronic doesn't generally rev as high as a manual driver might, it may make the engines more likely to suffer the IMS bearing issue (since more lubrication is thought to be provided at higher revs). The 997.2 engines (model year 2009 onwards) don't have an IMS at all, and the automated manual transmission (PDK) is far superior to the tiptronic. If cost wasn't an issue this would be a no-brainer choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 15March, 2014 Report Share Posted 15March, 2014 Just to clarify, ZF actually make the Tiptronic transmission and other transmissions for Porsche and many many other car manufacturers around the world including MB and Ford Falcon range here.Your car salesman is living up to the unfortunate stereotype of a car salesman on at least two points of fact.Should you believe him on anything else? (rhetorical question that doesn't need a response.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 16March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 16March, 2014 thanks folks! the salesman did not strike me all that trustworthy, hence my questions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion03 Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 well, after your test drive ...... did you like the car ? And re salesmen and IMS issues.... they sell the car, they don't service it, so they won't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 17March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 re test drive, since you asked. yes, I liked the car, it was 2004 997.1 with 130,000km, rear-drive, tiptronic. the only thing I found very odd was that the brake pedal required A LOT OF EFFORT to slow the car down, compared to my C-class and my 3-series. Its as if it was not power assisted brake at all. Dealer said the brake rotors and pads are brand new. Is it reasonable to expect the brake pedal to be so "heavy footed" compared to M-B and BMW pedal feel? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hounddub Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 Assuming the brakes on that car were OK I can make a suggestion based on my own experience. Having never previously owned a rear engine car I questioned the brake feel on mine initially. Even changed the rotors and pads all round just to make sure. Once I got used to it I felt that different inertia feel and weight distribution that I was feeling through my ass was deceiving me. Remember that compared to your other cars there is no front end mass in the 911 to dominate the front brakes. Again, its a feel thing that comes from driving these cars. I promise it will stop better than anything else youve owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion03 Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 errr, no my brakes are very good. could be they are so new, i.e. completely new, so the need a bit of wearing in? but I am guessing. Also I don't have a BMW or Merc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 The pedal feel should be firm. The 911 is a true sportscar, perhaps supercar even (certainly a turbo is) and is not really going to compare in those senses to a plush Mercedes C or BMW 3. Curious what kind of variants you're comparing with...are you talking balls out AMG C63 & M3? Or garden variety C & 3 series cars? Either way, they are not in the same league. Those 911 brakes are designed to pull you up hard from 280kph. Porsche braking is renowned as the best in the business. I think what you are experiencing IS brake pedal feel! Not fluffy over-assisted brakes. My rally car has the power assistance removed. The pedal is very firm, but the feel when pushing hard and the discs are glowing is great! Drive a few to be sure there is not something odd with that particular car of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 Well articulated Trev.... C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonoz Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 So you liked it, but you're not emotionally attached to it at all by your writings. Don't buy it. Move on until you find one that you look at over your shoulder as you walk away. No Porsche is cheap motoring. If you don't love it you won't maintain it properly, and then you'll be as guilty as the others who cut corners. It should be a thrilling experience, not ho hum. Then you won't resent writing the cheques, and frankly, you'll write plenty. And no the brakes won't feel like a BMW or anything else, as Trev pointed out. They are properly weighted, like the other controls, for a sporting driving experience. This advice might come across as harsh. I make no apology for that. You'll agree one day, or you'll buy nothing and think I'm being smart. No matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acid_rider Posted 17March, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 great replies, once again - many thanks I plan to drive at least one more model 997 to see if the brake pedal feel is as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion03 Posted 17March, 2014 Report Share Posted 17March, 2014 well, some cars it's love at first sight, with others it's a slow growing relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig M Posted 24October, 2016 Report Share Posted 24October, 2016 I just purchased my 1st Porsche and find the transmissiin to run a little strange its the tiptonic and notice it never starts in 1st gear always 2nd and some times it stays in 6th even after I have decelerated to almost a stop is that normal I have no experience to go by. Its an 09 911 turbo tiptonic 34k and sill have a 2yr 100k extended warranty. Looking for some experienced responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBayChris Posted 24October, 2016 Report Share Posted 24October, 2016 I just purchased my 1st Porsche and find the transmissiin to run a little strange its the tiptonic and notice it never starts in 1st gear always 2nd and some times it stays in 6th even after I have decelerated to almost a stop is that normal I have no experience to go by. Its an 09 911 turbo tiptonic 34k and sill have a 2yr 100k extended warranty. Looking for some experienced responses.in the 993, it always starts in second if the stick is in drive. Put the stick down one gear and it starts in first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig M Posted 24October, 2016 Report Share Posted 24October, 2016 I just purchased my 1st Porsche and find the transmissiin to run a little strange its the tiptonic and notice it never starts in 1st gear always 2nd and some times it stays in 6th even after I have decelerated to almost a stop is that normal I have no experience to go by. Its an 09 911 turbo tiptonic 34k and sill have a 2yr 100k extended warranty. Looking for some experienced responses.Great, what about the deceleration issue of it not downshifting according to the speed I am going staying in 6th or 5th even though I am almost at a complete syop then it shifts to second, this dtuff is probably normal but I am new to a Porsche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 24October, 2016 Report Share Posted 24October, 2016 Reading the manual will ease your concerns and yes, this is normal behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig M Posted 25October, 2016 Report Share Posted 25October, 2016 Reading the manual will ease your concerns and yes, this is normal behaviourYes you are right its the size of the bible which I havent quite gotten through that yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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