Pauly Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 Anyone got experience with these oils? Thinking about this http://www.martiniracing.com.au/index.php/our-products/lubricants/grand-prix-motor-oil/grand-prix-15w50 I usually use penrite synthetic. I ran semi synthetic until they changed their product line to fully synthetic oil with added zinc ect. I have the option to use martini oil as they're a sponsor for a group i belong to. If not i'll be getting penrite again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 Pauly, I wouldn't be surprised if they are blended by Penrite! Suggest you ask for a product data sheet to better understand what they are offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 "Liquid horsepower" , ha that's almost as good as Red Bull giving you wings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 17December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 Pauly, I wouldn't be surprised if they are blended by Penrite! Suggest you ask for a product data sheet to better understand what they are offering. interesting. I'll probably stick with penrite. I need to go look at my previous oil bottle because IICR HPR 30 was synthetic and now it's full mineral oil anyone know how much zinc is needed for our older engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 interesting. I'll probably stick with penrite. I need to go look at my previous oil bottle because IICR HPR 30 was synthetic and now it's full mineral oil anyone know how much zinc is needed for our older engines? Cross post from Rennlist from our own BB with some insights Greg , the 944 in your avatar is a classic flat tappet design , both the single cam & twin cam 944 engines have the traditional high loaded flat tappet design , Twin Valve springs holding up the hydraulic lifter and its flat surface ( high load to push down) , nice large sharp pointed cam lobes to crash down on the flat lifter surfaces tens of thousands/ millions of times( year after year) and no oil pressure to keep the two metal surfaces apart , only splash which means they have to rely on oil film strength ONLY to stop metal to metal contact and destruction , if these engines had low pressure single( per valve) valve springs instead of twin high pressure springs the load would be much much less , but it isn't so it not .The easiest ways are to increase oil film strength is to add ZDDP .particularly in these high wiping load areas like flat tappet designed engines.To confirm that just look at the information from the Mobil 1" RACING" sales info ,it states Mobil 1 RACING oils have boosted levels of ZDDP,( in some it states twice the level of ZDDP of that of later street oils ) it goes on to say this is particularly important for high loaded flat tappet designed engines, but that's OK because racing oils are exempt from the ACEA emission protocols so they can use higher levels of ZDDP We have been replacing worn out camshafts & lifters from customers 944 , 951, 944S, 944S2 , 968 , 928 , 928S4 , 928GT , 928GTS , engines that have been on low Vis low ZDDP oils from around 1999 onwards , but not on the same types of Porsche's as mentioned above that have been on 20W- 50 or 25w-50 engine oils that had decent levels of ZDDP.The reason I mentioned 20w-50 is that if you look at the oil Viscosity Chart in the owners manual that was printed by Porsche & came with the the following Porsche's924 1976 -1981 931 1979-1982944 1982 - 1989944S 1987 - 1988951 1985/6 - 1991944S2 1989 - 1991968 1992 - 1995930 1975- 1989911 all including 964 & 993928 4.5L 1978- 1982928 S 1980- 1986928S4 1987-1991928GTS 1992-1995You will see on the oil viscosity page in the owners manual in the Shaded Look At Me Section" in the middle" of the chart it shows the first ambient temp range of minus ten deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps ( in the earlier cars its minus 15 deg cel) and the oil viscosity recommended is a 20w-50 + ( 15w-50 )in some manuals ,and interestingly most if not all 20w-50 engine oils have decent levels of ZDDP because these oils are dedicated for cars from last century , just like the Porsche models listed above .The other thing of interest is that all 944 versions , be it 944, 944S, 944S2, 951, 968 , have one little flaw which does not raise its ugly little head untill you provoke it , and that little ( read expensive thing ) is that No 2 big end bearing/journal on the crankshaft will always have lower oil pressure at high RPM than compared to journals 1,3 & 4 ,this results in the engine grenading( leg out of bed) its to do with the crank design & centrifugal forces at high RPM , now the cheapest way to keep this little ( expensive) thing in check is to just consult the humble owners manual printed by Porsche by the people who made these cars, the answer is there as plain as day , you simply stay with the oil vis chart in the shade look at me section( and keep to the highest viscosity/ ambient temp ratio) ,In Australia and its ambient temp ranges the perfect choice for the road is 20w-50 , but its also very important to check the big ends shells condition( sump off) before letting a 20+ year old 944/951 onto the track ,added to this we have seen many others expire at the track when they were on too lower viscosity for the temp / rev combination and it only takes a few moments for the No 2 big end to be damaged( low oil pressure) at high RPM and that's it Remember } the higher the oil temp the lower the oil pressure, its very simple stuff,OH by the way do not be fooled by the oil pressure gauge in the dash/ instruments , because it only reads 0 to 5 bar , not 0 to 10 bar like the humble 924 did , this is important because the oil pressure relief valve( 944 all) opens around 7.1 bar , meaning if you see only 4 bar at high RPM ( engine hot) then you are only getting just over half the oil pressure that's possible and that's at the main oil gallery ,not the big ends( which is much lower) & the big ends oil pressure can not be measured , the 944 / 951 should have a 0 - 10 bar oil pressure gauge , because the 0-5 fools you into thinking oil pressure is maxed out at 5 or its at 4 and that's nearly 5 ?In other words we do not see any wear in these areas" if " these Porsche engine's from last century stay away from engine oils that are low on ZDDP and too low Vis for the ambient temp recommended by the people who built them Its common knowledge that later Petrol powered cars ( read gas USA speak) have to have lower levels of ZDDP to meet the strict ACEA emission protocols , and that's fine because for the most part these Porsche engines from this century are designed from the ground up for these lower Vis & lower ZDDP oils ( or at least we hope so ), but not Porsche's from last century .Sub note }For us to use say a 5w-40 in a 951 we would require a ambient temp range sub zero cel to a max of + 10 deg cel ambient temp ( providing it has decent ZDDP )For us to use a 0w 40 in a 951 we would require a ambient temp range of sub zero cel to a max ambient temp range of 0 deg cel and no higher ( providing it has decent ZDDP)For what its worth this is my opinion from working on Porsche cars for the last 34 years RegardsBruce Buchanan (another quote I saved from BB) " Low oil film strength so called synthetics have given so much work over the last 15+ years ( completely avoidable ) with regards to last century Porsche engines I am very grateful to stupid people for using it in the first place & the slick advertising that sold it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 If you don`t heed those wise words Pauly, your head will be shaved and you will be forced to wear K, Mart clothes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 17December, 2014 Report Share Posted 17December, 2014 Pauly I have been using that Penrite HPR 30 High Performance Mineral 20w60, seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corki944 Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 +1 I am also using the Penrite HPR 30. As Tingy mentioned its 20w-60w with full zinc (approx 1600+ ppm leves) Seems all right for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 18December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Tazzie, I had bruce reply to my post on rennlist with something similar. Cheers! If you don`t heed those wise words Pauly, your head will be shaved and you will be forced to wear K, Mart clothes Almost spat my coffee all over my screen!! hahaha!! Pauly I have been using that Penrite HPR 30 High Performance Mineral 20w60, seems fine to me. i used HPR30 all the time, they just change what type of oil is inside which gets me annoyed. Penrite has a good amount of zinc. 1600ppm I just bought a 20L barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 i used HPR30 all the time, they just change what type of oil is inside which gets me annoyed. Never sweat the small stuff! Don't they buy the base mineral oil and then add the special herbs and spices in Australia? I'm happy to get the viscosity right , then the add ons ; any part made in Australia by & for working Australians is good as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 18December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 if you mean by mixing add ons in oil yourself? that can work backwards and cause damage. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836 They changed from synthetic to mineral oil. that's what they did because i saw my old bottles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 if you mean by mixing add ons in oil yourself? that can work backwards and cause damage. No no , I agree never put your own additives in! I thought Penrite buys the base oil from elsewhere (?overseas even) and their clever Australian chemists do their additive stuff and package it up into different coloured bottles. I recall Repco oil used to be repackaged Mobil , then they sourced oil from Penrite? I could be wrong , as I do not fall into the category of oil anorak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 You're right Taz that Repco sell rebranded Penrite oil in their stores, hence my suggestion that Martini may be doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 18December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Would be interesting to know who uses whos oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Would be interesting to know who uses whos oil. Esp who has blown the magic bubbles into Porsche Classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Esp who has blown the magic bubbles into Porsche Classic I have heard mention that it is this, but don`t know for sure http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/extended-life-10w-60.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 I have heard mention that it is this, but don`t know for sure http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/extended-life-10w-60.aspx Well given the longstanding relationship e.g. it beggar's belief that they would allow any other oil company to share the marital bed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 I have heard mention that it is this, but don`t know for sure http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/extended-life-10w-60.aspxIf Mobil do indeed make the Classic oil, I find it ironic that Mobil don't recommend it for air cooled 911's or 944's for that matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 If Mobil do indeed make the Classic oil, I find it ironic that Mobil don't recommend it for air cooled 911's or 944's for that matter! Yes, I noticed that as well so it may not be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Steve,That's the thing I can't figure out, no credible oil manufacturer recommends a 10w-60 for post '84 911's (or 944's for that matter) only Porsche Classic do! So it's not obvious who makes the oil based on viscosity recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 18December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Oil manufactures don't konw what runs in our cars!! penrites site.. 0w-40... for a 944 turbo. Manual recommends 20w 50 or 15w 50 not sure about the 911 but i searched the 2.7L and said 20w 60 (which is 20w 50+10) as penrite have the +10 oils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Manual recommends 20w 50 or 15w 50 Porsche had a huge amount of experience with AC motors under all conditions (climates , racing etc) in the 60s and 70s. Surely they tested several weights and found the best recipe for general use? The cars were built for longevity , at that time , and in contrast to most other car mfrs. The mineral vs synthetic debate is something different. Gotta love a fresh & juicy oil thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 Steve, That's the thing I can't figure out, no credible oil manufacturer recommends a 10w-60 for post '84 911's (or 944's for that matter) only Porsche Classic do! So it's not obvious who makes the oil based on viscosity recommendations. The cynic in me thinks that the marketing department probably overruled the engineering department who then had to come up with a compromise that would cover all climates from Alaska to Zimbabwe, so that they only needed to make one can. I don't think I will be busting down their door to get my grubby little mits on some any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 18December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 The aircooled and the front engine motors in that period i assume both use 20w 50 as it was the "it" oil in its days. In the manual it says what other oils 944.5 manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 18December, 2014 Report Share Posted 18December, 2014 I see absolutely no reason at all not to use factory specified 20W-50 in my 1978-1985 air and water cooled Porsches. It makes shopping for oil unstressful. I listen to the mechanics rather than the oil marketers. They seem to live in the real world of changing climates, changing owners and variously changing driving habits. And as the mafia boss in the original Italian Job would say re the Classic oil : "Nice can...pretty can" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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