Dusty Posted 8January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 Thanks Harvs - I may just have enough stud showing on two of them to do that. The others have more than enough material. Just a question, how delicate were you when you cleaned your heads? I'm assuming you kept them bolted to the Cam housing as well? I'm intending to use kid gloves but I know this approach will treble the time needed to clean it all up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 8January, 2015 Report Share Posted 8January, 2015 Thanks Harvs - I may just have enough stud showing on two of them to do that. The others have more than enough material. Just a question, how delicate were you when you cleaned your heads? I'm assuming you kept them bolted to the Cam housing as well? I'm intending to use kid gloves but I know this approach will treble the time needed to clean it all up! I took the "just do what's needed" approach. So rather than go nuts dismantling everything, I left the heads attached to the cam housings. The valves/cams were in good shape so not necessary to do any top end work. There was a light carbon build up inside the combustion chambers on the heads which I chose not to disturb. I didn't want to risk dropping a chunk of loose carbon into the heads or engine. I had to clean up the groove on the cyl. barrels which locates the head gasket ring. Again, I was VERY careful not to let any debris into the piston rings/bores. My comment above was more about cleaning all the gunk off the exterior of the engine while it is still sealed. ie valve covers, chain covers etc still fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 12January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 Tear down Rant You have great expectations when you begin a job like this, that it'll be just like the youtube clips you've watched with blokes called 'Magnus' happily turning wrenches over meticulously clean Porsche parts and building something highly desirable. The reality couldn't be further than this... I reckon I need a maids outfit with the amount of cleaning I've done... so much so that despite wanting do it all myself, I capitulated and sent the heads/cam housing off to an ultra-sonic cleaner. With all the valves, cams, rockers etc intact, I didn't feel I could get the cleaning result I'd want before re-assembly. I pick them up tomorrow so can only post the before shots now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12January, 2015 Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 Aye carumba you'd need a big parts washer and plenty of time to get through that. That is some serious gunge. Are you going to be working on this on the weekend? Thought I might drop by and see how you were going, maybe offer some encouragement. Send me a PM if it suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 12January, 2015 Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 12January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 Reckon I'll gain 10hp just because the engine will be able to breath again. Feels like I've already polished off 20kg's of crud and there's at least that amount again sitting in the heads. Will send you a PM Coastr - hoping to be at the re-assembly stage by this weekend.but it all depends on whether the head stud gods will be smiling on me or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 14January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 14January, 2015 Bit of a rollercoaster today, that's ended in a call for help. Big thank you to John82 who gave the better part of his day towards getting my studs out and we had some good luck with 3 of the 5. Unfortunately the 2 remaining studs are stuck fast and continue to crumble at my attempts to soak, heat, chill, twist repeat. One stud has virtually no usable material above the case and the second has about 10mm but feels it like it's only a short turn away from snapping off flush. At this stage, I can either continue the same method which appears to be futile or find a machinist capable of doing the job. I've put the call out and have only found one local guy who wants me to split the case so he can drill it out then helicoil which I'd prefer to avoid at all costs. I can probably travel (with difficulty) a fair distance to find someone capable of removing so am all ears if anyone knows such a 'head stud whisperer' around SE QLD? Stud 1 Stud 2 The other overshadowed good news is that my heads/cam housings came back today and the difference is like day and night. The ultrasonic cleaning has worked extremely well with the only downside being that my valves, rockers etc have been stripped of ALL oil and cant wait to begin rusting.... I've given them a quick dose of lubricant to keep them in order but really need to get them operating again. Before After Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 14January, 2015 Report Share Posted 14January, 2015 Look up spark erosion, some machine shops will have the equipment but I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject to know if it is practical with the cases together? If you get stuck a I know a machine shop that has one in Brisbane and the guy who owns will give me an honest answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 14January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 14January, 2015 Awesome - Thanks Caledonian. Brisbane isn;t out of the question for me, the problem is only shifting the short block into the boot of my sedan... Probably driving with such precious cargo rolling around in the back will be a little bottom clinching too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 Dusty I called a couple of old friends who are in the VW scene. No Porsche specialists on the coast that they know of, but was advised to give Andrew Pickering at East Coast Engine Centre a call. He's in Nambour - ph 07 5441 4400. I don't know the guy personally but was told he won't BS you. No website, not that sort of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 15January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 Thanks Coastr - John82 has again come through with a customer of his that is a bit of a 'stud whisperer' so I'll give him a go in the morning. He's had success welding on top of Dilaver which is something I thought wasnt possible but after doing more searching, appears to be commonplace. The good news is that I was able to remove one of the two studs using an unorthodox method. Basically positioning a shifter vertically on the stud, applying heat then coming in horizontally with another shifter. No such luck on the remaining stud... Will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarreraG50 Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 Have you tried Matt Berry up your way, very well regarded air cooled mechanic Matt Berry Motor Sports 5 Old Coach Way, Lake Macdonald Qld 4563 Contact: Matt Berry Phone: 07 5472 0212 Or my personal favourite, (although always busy)-: http://promotive.com.au/promotive/ (in Brisbane) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 You might need more heat - from what I have read (and never done) is that you need to get things cherry red to get it loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 15January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 Thanks G50 - i'll give Matt Berry a call if I'm unsuccessful tomorrow. Good to know there's a specialist porsche mechanic on the coast. I also think you're right Coastr, heat is the key. I got the last one out by applying 15 minutes of propane torch to the case and only then did it begin to give. Unfortunately the last remaining stud just doesnt have enough material left to get a tool onto it anymore, it therefore needs another approach. The irony is that nearly every other stud came out very easily with no heat required, just the two buggers that were snapped just above the case that wanteto hang around... Hopefully it'll be sorted tomorrow and i can get busy with the fun stuff, putting all the freshly cleaned and painted parts back together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnr356 Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 never cherry red just enough that your spit boils heating although necessary leads to another can of worms,through bolt o-rings never taken the risk to not replacing them(which is another art) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 I guess the stuff I was reading was talking about exhaust studs from heads (rather than case studs) which can get cherry red in operation anyway. jnr356 how far away are the bolt o-rings from where he is heating in the pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5032 Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 never cherry red just enough that your spit boils heating although necessary leads to another can of worms,through bolt o-rings never taken the risk to not replacing them(which is another art) Jnr, can u replace the thru bolt o rings without dropping the engine on say a 964??? Sorry to hijack this thread but it's what stopped me buying a 964 I was looking at before I purchased my car...was quoted about &6k and a engine drop to fix properly , sounded ridiculous at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnr356 Posted 15January, 2015 Report Share Posted 15January, 2015 nah mate,pistons and barrels off problemmatic for 964's,once they've been done they're good(and a bit more trickier than previous models) 6k is about right o-rings are under the nut in the pic with the blow torch as i said, i never took the gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 16January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 16January, 2015 Jnr356, would you recommend removing the suspect thru bolts and replacing the o-rings? We considered temporarily removing a couple of the thru bolts to get better access to the studs more than anything else but decided against because of the need to replace hardware. Didn't consider the risk heating the studs would create. I would've thought the case might not seal correctly if a few centre bolts is temporarily I should also mention that only a propane torch was used and despite the deceiving photo, the heat was applied at least an inch away from the thru-bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnr356 Posted 16January, 2015 Report Share Posted 16January, 2015 as i said, i never took the gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 17January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 17January, 2015 oh well, of all my drama's at present, a weeping thru-bolt doesn't register. The unwanted stud is still present until the working week so I've turned my attention to a little body work and yet more cleaning, painting and tidyiing. The Frunk and engine bay were first up with some left over engine enamel while everything was out. Have so far gone for the naked look: And the engine bay: I haven't installed any engine soundproofing but might put it in at a later date. Also on the job sheet has been cleaning up the cylinders and pistons. I tried hard to keep the pistons installed within the cylinders during removal as recommended for Alusils but four of my six pistons worked their way out as I was removing the piston pins. I used the opportunity to clean some of the carbon off the tops and will re-install using the same rings to avoid any problems. Before: After cleaning: What appears to be marks in the cylinder walls are actually reflections. The cylinder surfaces are in great condition so very happy about that, despite my initial unhappiness about them being Alusil and not Mahle. Have some more cylinder cleaning due tomorrow as well as a CIS overhaul including new injector seals and inserts. Need also to double check all the gasket surfaces within the camshaft boxes etc so that I'm ready when that damn stud finally gets out of my engine...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 19January, 2015 Report Share Posted 19January, 2015 I've been to inspect Dustys car...work was stopped by standing around yapping. I also failed to bring the 911 and wimped out, using the air-conditioned option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 19January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 19January, 2015 It was a welcome stop-work-break Coastr! Nice to talk about cars that are driveable rather than a car that's spread all over the garage... The work halt continues while the last stud remains firmly stuck. I had the bad news today that EDM or spark erosion can only be performed on a split case because it has to be fully submerged in cooling solution where the disintegrated stud turns to grit and works its way through the entire crankcase. There's no way to seal the case from the solution and EDM cannot be performed dry. Upon re-reading Dempsey's article on EDM, he says that although his crankcase was complete and not totally submerged, the solution did go through the case and had to be split anyway. The chaps who have it will try some other methods to remove the stud over the coming days but if there's no luck, I'll have no choice but to dig deeper and split the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 20January, 2015 Report Share Posted 20January, 2015 Bummer. I would try at least one other person before going down the case-split route. Have you tried directly heating the stud instead of the case around it ? (I know that's the standard advice, to heat the aluminium) Or, just take it somewhere else and see what their opinion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porshie Posted 22January, 2015 Report Share Posted 22January, 2015 Have you spoken to Don Munro? He has a wealth of knowledge and I am sure has faced similar problems in the past, both on street and race cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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