944 sale price

[Jason E]

Got the S2 back to Brisbane this morning (well to work at least for the time being).  Thanks to Tingy for the SMT & to Dreamer & Mrs Dreamer for the meet up.  Purred like a kitten with nary a hiccup all the way home (thanks Sean & Bruce).  Cheers to all.

How does this post relate to 944 sale price you say.  I am quickly learning that these cars take a lot of work to bring back when neglected.  Certainly true to buy the best example you can afford (or a roughie with a big heart like mine & spend to bring it back to driver quality).  The real work begins now I think over plenty of time.  Going to need to ask lots of advice & learn some new skills.

cheers.

[brian in buddina]

welcome home

no speeding tickets?

[Jason E]

welcome home

no speeding tickets?

We'll see.  None I know about - yet.  Slow trip home though as I was dog tired.  Hardly broke the 100k mark as I was scared of Kangaroos.  Rightly so too as I almost hit one near Tenterfield - Mongrel things.

[88mph]

I don't think so. Too much money. Too much work to change the transaxle for a pre 85.5 to make it worth it.

This isn't a just a less popular car it is the least desirable car. Too expensive even for a parts car. Maybe a track car shell, after you change the transaxle.

A 924 turbo, one that sold for 10ish, would be a better car. Spend the money adding an intercooler.

Too many other cars, and non P cars available which would be much better value!

Ops, hope the pre 86 auto listed car doesn't belong to a forum member, if so, I was only joking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected.

Who is going to buy these then?? 

[Jason E]

Apart from the Dash and power steering I think, what are the major differences, the engines are pretty much the same?

This to me seems good value for an auto 944 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/tolmans-hill/cars-vans-utes/porsche-944/1132875295 I would prefer to drive this around than something newer (no P car) with less character.....

I don't know if i agree with you Adam.  I drove an auto 83 car & that 3 speed box is truly horrible.  It is so sluggardly.  Poo.

[ANF]

I don't know if i agree with you Adam.  I drove an auto 83 car & that 3 speed box is truly horrible.  It is so sluggardly.  Poo.

That may be so, but for $6k and an auto what else would be as good...... 0-100 of 9.6 not so bad for what it is..... never driven one just surmising... :)

[TINGY]

Got the S2 back to Brisbane this morning (well to work at least for the time being).  Thanks to Tingy for the SMT & to Dreamer & Mrs Dreamer for the meet up.  Purred like a kitten with nary a hiccup all the way home (thanks Sean & Bruce).  Cheers to all.

How does this post relate to 944 sale price you say.  I am quickly learning that these cars take a lot of work to bring back when neglected.  Certainly true to buy the best example you can afford (or a roughie with a big heart like mine & spend to bring it back to driver quality).  The real work begins now I think over plenty of time.  Going to need to ask lots of advice & learn some new skills.

cheers.

Had a good drive yesterday Jason and thanks for the drive in the S2, i liked it and with some elbow grease and a tidy up you will have a bullet proof car i reckon.

Glad you got home ok, it's never a good thing driving with fatigue at night and with the worry of wildlife jumping out at any moment also playing on your mind.

[Jason E]

I hear 

Had a good drive yesterday Jason and thanks for the drive in the S2, i liked it and with some elbow grease and a tidy up you will have a bullet proof car i reckon.

Glad you got home ok, it's never a good thing driving with fatigue at night and with the worry of wildlife jumping out at any moment also playing on your mind.

PM'd

That may be so, but for $6k and an auto what else would be as good...... 0-100 of 9.6 not so bad for what it is..... never driven one just surmising... :)

Adam, you should drive one just to feel the pain.  Honestly a syphilitic Datsun 200B with a missing wheel would have more pickup.  

I've driven an auto 968 & that was pretty good.  Never been in a post update auto but I think they used the same 3 speed box.  Just poop.  What 944 would you buy for 6k that didn't need work done?  & you'd be investing that work/ time/ $$$ in an auto pre update 944 that drives slower than I can dribble.  

[ANF]

 944 that drives slower than I can dribble.  

To be fair I have not seen you dribble.....  

Well done on the S2!

[Plugger2]

Apart from the Dash and power steering I think, what are the major differences, the engines are pretty much the same?

This to me seems good value for an auto 944 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/tolmans-hill/cars-vans-utes/porsche-944/1132875295 I would prefer to drive this around than something newer (no P car) with less character.....

Actually, the 83 was the only year that came without power steering. For some, this is a plus.

The 85.5 "oval dash" interior upgrade was a big deal in terms of the comfort and appearance of the car. From what I gather from reading, the aircon in the "square dash" models was always a bit inadequate in terms of cabin airflow. And overall, the interior just hasn't dated well, imho.

But all of that is minor compared to having the 3-speed auto vs the 5-speed manual. The 2.5NA engine was never a torque monster to begin with, and it's pretty marginal even in the manual configuration. My first 944 was a manual '86NA, many years ago now, and while I liked it very much, I knew eventually I'd get an S2 or Turbo to bring the driving experience up that extra level. 

I have to agree overall with JasonE's sentiments. The only conclusion about the auto 2.5NA vehicles I can come to is that if some people bought them when they were new because they wanted an auto, there will some people who will buy them used because they want an auto.

Not me though!

I think JasonE has done well to bag an S2 in the current market. When all the pain and initial shock of the Buchanans bill has been forgotten, there will the ongoing pleasure of driving an S2 around town and on the freeways. Torque everywhere! :-)

Edited 21December, 2016 by Plugger2

[michel]

@Jason E when are we seeing a thread...

Btw given your admission of driving at l00km/h a minty beige coloured 3spd 86 might have been a fitting choice 

[TINGY]

I think JasonE has done well to bag an S2 in the current market. When all the pain and initial shock of the Buchanans bill has been forgotten, there will the ongoing pleasure of driving an S2 around town and on the freeways. Torque everywhere! :-)

I always wanted a S2 and after driving Jason's car yesterday I really like the power and it was very torquey.

Without putting a turbo on a 3.0ltr and without spending a squillion, how much power can be gained out of these engines, is 350hp possible with a modest spend on engine improvements, what is the collective thought?

[michel]

I'd be asking Sean and Bruce 

[MB911]

 

Hey Tingy are you trying to get the set of late model 944's.. The S2's are pretty great as they are, get to know how to drive it to get the best out of it (I understand that you already have the turbo so I'm sure you can peddle a 944 pretty well) and they are pretty quick becuase you can carry some great corner speed and use the torque to pull out clean from the corner, no turbo lag at all..... LOL. 350hp (that's about 110hp over standard), to be honest I'd just buy something else that is fast, it's probably cheaper to buy a 5.7 litre Monaro, XR6 turbo or Nissan GTR and bring that up to 500hp for probably less money than a 350hp S2. To me an S2 isn't a fast car, it's just a really capable and enjoyable sports car. The one on Carsales would be an absolute weapon, but it owes him $200k........ Bu as Michel said ask Bruce, I'm just sharing my opinion...

[Plugger2]

I always wanted a S2 and after driving Jason's car yesterday I really like the power and it was very torquey.

Without putting a turbo on a 3.0ltr and without spending a squillion, how much power can be gained out of these engines, is 350hp possible with a modest spend on engine improvements, what is the collective thought?

The consensus is that it's hard to squeeze much more power out the S2 from stock. They are actually pretty well optimised for a factory tune. You can get a bit more with a chip, but your fuel consumption may go up noticeably (at least in my experience). An aftermarket CDI ignition like the MSD 6A will give you noticably a little more torque, and will improve fuel consumption slightly -- quite a cost effective upgrade. The 968 version of the 3.0L engine added a fairly primitive VTEC like feature, and there are a few more ponies to be had there. Nothing very dramatic though. Nothing like 350hp. Probably ~250hp, max.

In short, the only way to get significantly more power is via forced induction. Supercharging is popular, and slightly simpler to implement, but Turbocharging based on the 951 setup has been successfully done many times since the 968 Turbo days. The original 968 setup used an 8V 951 head on the 3L S2/968 block for Turboing, but these days more people are opting to Turbo with the 16V head. With forced induction, 500hp+ is quite achievable.

But you did say you wanted to drop a squillion, right?

[TINGY]

I've been mulling this over for a long time now, I got the turbo because it is an awesome car and also on the bucket list.

I can carry great corner speed with the turbo too and now that I know how to drive it, there is not much, if any lag at speed out of corners.

I will be sticking with a Porsche, no Munro for me, if I want a turbo ford i can drive my 2 boys cars, and the only gtr would be an oz delivered R32, if you can find one.

Your correct they are not an overly fast car that's why I asked the question about mods for one.

One with some power would be a fun project i think, without a turbo.

 

Really? Only 250hp, looks like it will be pistons and head work as well then?

[OzJustin]

I read on Rennlist that a stock S2 with a modern VEMS ECU upgrade put down 207rwhp and 270rwnm. You could probably add an exhaust, more aggressive cam etc and make a little more NA power but it would likely bump the torque further up the rev range affecting drivability. I agree the best way to go would be forced induction. That or drop a big LS V8 under the bonnet like Chris did.

[MB911]

I've been mulling this over for a long time now, I got the turbo because it is an awesome car and also on the bucket list.

I can carry great corner speed with the turbo too and now that I know how to drive it, there is not much, if any lag at speed out of corners.

I will be sticking with a Porsche, no Munro for me, if I want a turbo ford i can drive my 2 boys cars, and the only gtr would be an oz delivered R32, if you can find one.

Your correct they are not an overly fast car that's why I asked the question about mods for one.

One with some power would be a fun project i think, without a turbo.

 

Really? Only 250hp, looks like it will be pistons and head work as well then?

I just can't help but think you've missed the point of the S2 Tingy........ The turbo is the high performance end of the range. The S2 is the torquey great to drive every day car that has the same handling, brakes, looks, bigger engine and not the turbo. The S2 isn't about power it's about torque and a great every day drive, mine is an absolute weapon on the slow windy corners that cause turbos to be hunting for boost (trust me I've embaraced more than a few turbos on the other side of the Clyde mountain).I looked at a white Canberra car and the owner did a 5th gear start from standstill in it and it pulled it no problems. Having owned one for 5 years my advice is leave it alone, it's perfect just as Porsche intended it to be... Modify your turbo and make a weapon out of that.  But hey, I am the first to admit it's just my opinion. 

[TINGY]

No i get it MB, your right in what you are saying.

I understand that with these N/A engines their is not much more power to pulled out of them without some major mods, I'm not after a super dooper power machine but I thought 300+hp might have been achievable.

I don't think my turbo is the one to modify specifically, it's a special car in my eyes and will stay the way it is.

Maybe i over estimated the gains to be made from a 3.0ltr engine.

[Plugger2]

No i get it MB, your right in what you are saying.

I understand that with these N/A engines their is not much more power to pulled out of them without some major mods, I'm not after a super dooper power machine but I thought 300+hp might have been achievable.

I don't think my turbo is the one to modify specifically, it's a special car in my eyes and will stay the way it is.

Maybe i over estimated the gains to be made from a 3.0ltr engine.

The Turbos are relatively easy to modify in a way that is completely reversible, simply by putting in new ECU chips. This immediately results in a remap with more boost.

The trick is to make sure the engine (and rest of the drivetrain, for that matter) is in good condition so it can cope with the extra performance. Easy to blow a headgasket, etc.

But if I had a Turbo I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade in this way to get a healthy boost in performance. Past a certain point, you have to start upgrading everything else to keep up. But most of the so-called "Stage 1" kits are safe enough to use without further mods being required.

[TINGY]

The Turbos are relatively easy to modify in a way that is completely reversible, simply by putting in new ECU chips. This immediately results in a remap with more boost.

The trick is to make sure the engine (and rest of the drivetrain, for that matter) is in good condition so it can cope with the extra performance. Easy to blow a headgasket, etc.

But if I had a Turbo I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade in this way to get a healthy boost in performance. Past a certain point, you have to start upgrading everything else to keep up. But most of the so-called "Stage 1" kits are safe enough to use without further mods being required.

Ok, so mine's modified then, it's chipped and has 300hp.

[Joshstix]

The only way to get big increases in power on a good N/A engine is to move the torque curve to the right so that it makes its torque at higher revs which equals higher power.  This might not be the best of ideas on a long stroke engine like the 3.0.

There would be increases to be found from more compression, better management and intake/exhaust.  But the return on investment would not be great.

[Plugger2]

I always wanted a S2 and after driving Jason's car yesterday I really like the power and it was very torquey.

Without putting a turbo on a 3.0ltr and without spending a squillion, how much power can be gained out of these engines, is 350hp possible with a modest spend on engine improvements, what is the collective thought?

And don't forget, the S2 isn't that much of a slouch even in stock form. The max. power is almost identical to that of the early Turbos, but without the lag. (Hence the nick-name "The Gentleman's Turbo".).Put your foot to the floor and these things go! The published factory spec is 0-100 in about 6s flat, IIRC.

People talk power (hp), but it's actually torque that gives you acceleration. You want torque everywhere for a responsive performance car. The number for power at the redline in itself is actually a pretty poor indicator of overall performance. Good for bragging rights perhaps, but you really need to see the torque curve over the entire rev range to know what's what.

[TINGY]

Thanks everyone sorry for thread drift, now about those auto's.............................

[Plugger2]

Thanks everyone sorry for thread drift, now about those auto's.............................

What a depressing turn of conversation... I was enjoying myself, just warming to my subject. Do we *really* have to return to talking about 3-speed 2.5NAs?