944 Shocks

[90sF1Kid]

A day of first for me and my 944.

First day driving a my 944 S2, first day driving a Porsche, ever

First flat battery

First new battery for the Porsche .. note to get a trickle charger.

First drive once up and running..... straight to the mechanics for its pre rego inspection. No charge... I like my Mechanic

I need a few items - front right steering shaft required (uni joint worn), Near side Front control arm ball joint needs replacing. Both were expected and on my pre-purchase inspection. Only minor surprise was a set of front shocks needed, but I could kind of tell driving it there as it was a little floaty at times and the and the front bumps stops were noted as needing to be replaced. I check everything over with the mechanic so I do agree with the assessment.

 

Given I need a front pair of shocks, am thinking I might as well get the rears at the same time.... now the questions. What to get?

I want to keep the car as true to as what nature intended, albeit I might allow for a slight upgrade if using the genuine Porsche parts. Therefore i'm thinking Koni's and i'm kind of toying with the idea of the height adjustable ones as I hear they were standard on the M030 models.

 

The 944 is the S2 but I'm not sure if it has the M030 package, i'll have to look over the documents, but I don't think it is. Does anyone know if its going to have an issue using these shocks in the case the rest of the suspension is standard? I'm thinking as a height adjustable shock then it shouldn't be an issue, but I'm still learning on the mechanical aspects. 

Anything else I should consider?

[Jason E]

I will follow your progress with interest as I have decided to get into one of these myself.  Was this the one you recently purchased in SA?

[90sF1Kid]

Hey Jason,

It was the one from CTS in Sydney, but originally an Adelaide car when new.

I see your also looking at the moment, best of luck to you!

Great choice of car btw, you won't be disappointed :)

[Jason E]

Oh THAT one....well that is a beautiful looking thing- congrats.  I see that 86 944 with 26k has just been advertised for 50k.  Lovely!  Interior isn't my favourite but still it is in amazing condition.  I'm really looking forward to finding something.

[Pauly]

Go straight to KW v3. 

They ride smoother than the stock ones. And they just stiffen up when you hit a bend. 

[Jason E]

Would you mind posting (or PM-ing) some interior, exterior photos of your car please.  I am looking at something similar & would like to have a benchmark to compare to.

cheers,

Jason

[90sF1Kid]

Sure can Jason, weather should be good here tomorrow. So I can crack the camera out.

[Jason E]

Cheers, that'd be great. 

[Buchanan Automotive]

Paragon USA have a great deal on the "Coil - Over Kit - 1 Koni Cup "  $ 1,384.44 USD , this is what we usually get our customers to buy as this is very very very good value for the money & being Koni they are not only repairable years later but very reliable 
This front & rear coil over shocks kit comes with everything , all you have to do is choose you're spring rates , we often ( 95% of the time ) do the rear torsion bar delete , so we choose the spring rates to suite the customer , meaning just street or street & clubsport track 

These are the best value for the money & being Koni the quality is excellent for what we call a stage one set up

Note 1 } we get the customers to buy the coil over shock kit themselves ( we help them choose the springs set up to suite their needs ) & we install the suspension  & set up everything including front & rear wheel alignment , by them buying the kit, saves them a bit of money 

Note 2 } we do torsion bar delete ( torsion bars are the rear springs ) so as to make rear suspension height adjustments real easy on assembly & in the future & hence the importance of choosing the correct springs for torsion bar delete 

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The ultimate in ride control & track is the MCS remote canister shocks with compression & rebound adjustable plus Eiback springs ( Tenders & mains combined )+ ( rear torsion bar delete ) , we have converted quite a few 951's & 944S2 to this set up & it gives the best ride & handling that I have ever come across in 40 years working on Porsche cars

The the extreme quality the above is outstanding , but so is the price ( you pay for what you get )

Sean uses MCS on his GT3 beating 951 

-------------------------------------
We have had two customers over the years who had purchased KW's & both bad broken their front shock body welded on camber brackets ( not good ) , plus with the rears wouldn't fit without having to buy in two extremely long & very heavy lower shock bolts , the standard rear shock bolts were too short for the KW's ( very odd ), it was as if the KW's were designed for another car brand and this was close enough to sell to unsuspecting 944 buyers & this was on two different 951's that were purchased by their owners independently , plus for the track we ran out of shock shaft travel , but to be fair this was 4 or 5 years ago , maybe its improved ?

Note }  Never had broken welded on camber brackets with Koni  , Bilstein ,  Moton,  or MCS in 40 years on working on Porsche cars 

Regards

Bruce B
 

[90sF1Kid]

Thanks Bruce, that's fantastic Info!!!

I'd been a leaning away from the Koni's at present as speaking to my local guy they need to be cut by 25m to fit in as the car was Not M030 and therefore has a difference front suspension assembly. But i'll reconsider absed on the above.

TBH I'm still a bit torn here as its a case of going after market and getting something that will undoubtedly be much better than stock or truing to stay as true to the original car as possible and preserve its 'hertiage' so to speak. Fortunately these elements we are dealing with are reversible so its probably not that crucial a decision, as long as I keep any parts that come off the car in the change over.

Jason, sorry I didn't get around to taking the pics in the fine weather today, but I've just snapped a few in the garage this evening.

 

[Diamond911]

Jason, sorry I didn't get around to taking the pics in the fine weather today, but I've just snapped a few in the garage this evening. Can't seem to upload them as its saying I've exceeded the limit (501kb)but the pics size on my hard drive only says its only 80kb??

Photobucket or similar is the easiest way for photo hosting on here..... 

[90sF1Kid]

 

[Jason E]

Good God man, that is just amazing!!  I drove an n/a S2 today that was nice but nowhere near this.  Well done you tinny bugger!!  Puts it in perspective when you look at your interior- very sweet.  Your thing is mint.  Worth every cent I say.

[90sF1Kid]

Thanks Jason, I'm pretty wrapped with it, but I think Tingy has me covered on the exterior paint from what I've seen of his pics 

Mine has one or two small spots where the clear coat has either come away or something is not quite right...... but I don't think you can afford to be too picky. A respray one day perhaps, we'll see.

The main thing for me is that everything works electrically and yeah that interior is a nice place to be on a sunny winters day.

 

[TINGY]

Thanks Jason, I'm pretty wrapped with it, but I think Tingy has me covered on the exterior paint from what I've seen of his pics 

Mine has one or two small spots where the clear coat has either come away or something is not quite right...... but I don't think you afford to be too picky. A respray one day perhaps, we'll see.

The main thing for me is that everything works electrically and yeah that interior is a nice place to be on a sunny winters day.

 

 

Don't worry mate mine is far from perfect and yours looks pretty good from here.

Everything works on mine as well except for A/C which I will attend to when the weather warms up.

Clear coat? Are you certain, I'm pretty sure the reds were "solid" colors so it may be a poor repair or a blemish or stain from something?

 

[Jason E]

Don't worry mate mine is far from perfect and yours looks pretty good from here.

Everything works on mine as well except for A/C which I will attend to when the weather warms up.

Clear coat? Are you certain, I'm pretty sure the reds were "solid" colors so it may be a poor repair or a blemish or stain from something?

 

Was just looking at Tingys photos.  Both cars are bloody crackers.  Both are red hot things in my book. 

[Buchanan Automotive]

I see you need more info ,  the Koni "yellow" front shock inserts were made by Koni just for the stock standard 944S2 , 944S , 968 ,& 951 Non M030  as most of these ( 98%) were the standard ( Non M030 factory height adjustable version ) Boge/Sachs front shock design then that's what Koni concentrated on , so in the case of the coil over kits I mentioned that Paragon has put together , that's simply  the Koni Yellow 8641-1414 that has height adjustable sleeves ( that go over the Boge/Sachs old body tube ) to suite the new front springs

So Yes they do fit you're 944S2 ( that's what they were designed for ) , just so long as it has the Black painted Boge/Sachs front McPherson strut bodies = standard fitment ( no options ) 944S2

To spend even less money , you could buy the Koni Yellows on their own ( use you're old springs etc ) & from Paragon they are the Koni 8641-1414  at $ 169.12USD X 2
Then to match the rear you just buy the non coil over rears & from Paragon they are Koni yellow 8040-1035 at $ 133.28 USD X 2

That means you are just upgrading the shocks only & being koni Yellow that are gas pressurised with rebound adjustment ( front & rear )

As invented by Koni ( in regards to the front Boge / Sachs shocks on you're 944S2 ) , you cut and remove the remains of the old Boge/Sachs shocks & remove & install these new inserts , the instructions come in the box & is easy to do ( we have fitted probably around 50 sets over the years ) to the 944 series 1987 > , that includes 944 , 944S,944S2 , Non M030 951 , 968 & even 968CS that have come in the Non M030 version 

These are very good value for the quality

Note } 98/99% of all the 944S2's that I have ever seen were the standard NON M030 setup from the factory , meaning they had the least expensive setup possible as a production car , meaning }

A)  Boge / Sachs front shocks ( nice average shocks but nothing special ) & soft"ish" springs

B )  small"ish" dia sway bars

C )  small Brembo front brake caliper & small discs

D )  smaller / different stubaxle ( spindle USA speak ) as compared to the 1990 / 1991 951 M030 / 944S2 expensive option

E )  different " design 90" cast wheels ( different width & offsets )

---------------------------------

Where as the  1990 / 1991 M030 ( M757 ) 944S2 ( 1989 951 Turbo S ) had was the Koni Yellow ( complete Bodies ) with the threaded alloy height adjustment sleeves with Turbo S springs , 951 Turbo S front stubaxles , 928S4 front Discs and big Brembo calipers ( Turbo S ) & bigger sway bars & bigger rear torsion bars

Note 2 } 1990 & 1991 944S2 with the proper M030 / M757 expensive option was so rare I have only ever seen one example in all these decades

Note 2 } the M474 option for 1987 - 1989 year models 944 , 944S & 944S2 were just simple Koni made front shock McPherson legs ( painted Koni Yellow ) & even this was reasonably rare & easily identifiable by the colour etc

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[TINGY]

Bruce is it correct that the front shocks on the 89 turbo are re-buildable and is it worth it or cheaper to buy new?

[Buchanan Automotive]

Yes & No , what do I mean by that ?

 Well before I answer that some info is needed }    in the 1980's these quite expensive but not all that special( Now ) Koni 944 Turbo S ( easier to explain them that way ) were like a lot of things in production cars a compromise between Porsche spending too much ( not going to happen ) when it comes to shocks , and getting Koni to make something that is OK"ish " for the price & the technology in the 1980's was quite OK , but to get the car to handle ( sporty) it meant only one thing & that one thing was harshness & this applied to ALL cars & sports car set ups world wide from all car makers & aftermarket shocks & spring technology

The Standard Turbo S ( M030 / 757 ) came with these quite nice ( for the 1980's )" rebound only adjustable " front McPherson Shock assemblies with their quite nice 928 inspired alloy threaded height adjustable sleeves , but that was that , the ride was harsh ( normal for the period ) hence why everyone drove around with the rebound adjustment on its softest setting ( well that was a waste of time ) and even then people still complained because the wife didn't like it because it was not like the Camry they have , meaning its too sporty , so another words its was ( with as little money spent as possible ) it was optimised for spirited sports driving on a smooth road & most people really didn't want a sports car in the first place 

Now to the answer , well the Turbo S Konis are theoretically repairable but you only get one chance at it , they are semi sealed & if the humans who tackle it do not quite get it right , proper Koni repairers( Like Koni USA ) will not accept tham as a core return , meaning they become unusable core returns real quick 

I do not want to keep banging on about Paragon USA , but they are a good reference point in this area , Paragon has the Koni 944Turbo S shock assemblies listed and they are already re-valved & have the quite trick "Extra" compression adjustment added to them , so that makes these externally compression & rebound adjustable ( very nice ) , but for a street car "only " there is a slight issue , they are re-valved to suite heavier springs for club sport track use , which is fantastic for club track work, but may not be what you really want for street work only & the old core returns ( struts ) MUST be unmolested , yes the old cores have a $ 800 USA core charge , so you will be sending the old ones back

So with it all said and done & after Sean & I installing/ setting up & driving quite a few 944S2's & 951's & 968's with this century technology MCS shocks ( remote reservoir ) & Eiback springs ( mains & tenders ), I am not sure I would go back to 1980's technology unless I was not going to drive it much 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[TINGY]

That's great Info Bruce thanks for that.

[Rob]

Bruce

Thanks for the info and making me unhappy with the MO30 on my '90 951 .  Had a look at the MCS site and there's a USD $1050 difference in price between the 2-way non-remote and the 2-way with remote reservoir.  Are the advantages of the remote reservoir worth it for a predominantly road-use 951?

We front-engined watercoolers really appreciate your advice and insight.  Hope you have had a complete recovery from your op and are enjoying your new "suspension"!

Cheers, Rob

[Buchanan Automotive]

Thanks Rob , yes my new Hip "ball joint " is fantastic , I should of had it replaced a year or two earlier , with the MCS coil-overs , Sean & I have only ever used the two way  " With Remote " , up until fairly recently the "Non  Remote" was until recently one way adjustable only , the 2 way "Non Remote " is a new product & we are interested in using them on road going Porsche's in the future

So I / we can only comment on the 2 way  " With Remote " & yes they are the best quality for the money I have ever purchased in 40 years of working on Porsche cars & when matched to the owners needs the results are very impressive 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[90sF1Kid]

A quick update as i had the car in yesterday for the replacement of the front steering shaft. By all accounts it went very smoothly and i picked the car up yesterday evening in the middle of a down poor.

The car had been making some moaning noises which seemed like power steering fluids old or low at low loads (turning whilst crawling speeds). I had asked for the power steering fluids to be checked but it turns out they were fine, fresh in fact and as such it's now believed to be the strut mounts. So that adds up to a few more dollars of work needing to be done, but atleast it can all be done together with the front shocks, bump stops and left front control arm replacement. 

Still no closer to a decision on the shocks, but i've booked i'm speaking to one of the Melbourne Porsche specialist workshops so i can get a plan of works and go from there.

[Buchanan Automotive]

You're first thought " moaning noises which seemed like power steering fluids old or low loads , turning whilst at crawling speeds ", well you're first thought was most likely correct 
As you are new to the Porsche 944 and in this case the 944S2 , I thought I would go out of my way to give you some insight into what you most likely hearing 

In right hand drive ( thats what I know best ) the ZF power steering system & more pertinent the 944 ZF power steering rack is very very very prone ( when in old age ) to make very ( quite loud ) hydraulic moaning noises at parking speeds & turning the steering mildly quickly at the same time & in some cases its very loud , meaning pedestrians walking nearby will turn to look 

You can test this particular noise I am mentioning by making it do it ( very easy ) engine at idle and turn the steering , now once you get it to do it , repeat the test , only this time turn the steering wheel ( L&R) at a slower rate & you will find the noise will diminish & then you will find a steering wheel turning speed ( L & R ) where the noise will just not be there at all , so in other words at a slower rate of turning the steering wheel the noise will simply not be there

If it is the noise I think you are describing , then you will find it will be mildly more noticeable when the p/steering system is cold & less noticeable when hot or if the weather is hot 

Now if it is that noise , you will then ask the question } where they like this when new or in the first 5 years from new ?

Answer = NO to the level you can hear it , but yes in relation to a much milder version of it & yes when they were new "ish" , it would take quite aggressive steering wheel turning at parking speeds to get it to do it mildly

The next question is }  what the hell is it ?  

Answer = its the very old internal seals within the rack are not sealing as well as they can( or once did ) and very high pressure power steer fluid is getting past them ( all internal ) and the hydraulic resonance ( at very high internal fluid pressures ) are causing high intensity noise & with slower steering wheel turning speeds ( done by the human ) has a big influence by giving more time for the old seals to cope better ( its that simple )

We generally only overhaul these ZF R/H/D steering racks for external leakage reasons or excessive internal free play , but the secondary benefit is a dramatic reduction in the hydraulic resonance noise I think you picked up straight away & then you 2nd guessed you're self ( I think you may have been correct with you're first thought )

Note }  there were / are three generations of the 944 ZF R/H/D power steering racks used b y Porsche

Generation 1 } 944   1984 ( expensive option only )  1985  & 1986 as standard for 944 & 951, seals & internal nylon bushes unique to this version

Generation 2 } 944   1987 - 1989 , 944 , 951 , 944S , 944S2

Generation 3 } 944   1990 - 1995 , 944S2, 951 , 968 , very similar to Gen 2 but different rotary valve alloy head assembly

Regards

Bruce Buchanan 
Buchanan Automotive

 

[90sF1Kid]

Thanks Bruce it's much appreciated !!

I had made previously noted that when you turn it quite slowly it wasn't an issue, but certainly noisy if you tried to do it quicker or sharper.

Hadn't made an observation in regards to hot or cold functioning. But I do note it's never really when driving, seemingly just when at that slow speed primarily on hard lock/load when turning to back out of the garage. I'll try and pay particular attention to confirm when I bring it back after a drive.

I'm keeping a log on spreadsheets of all my drivers, work planned and carried out and my observations each time I drive (not much so far as its on an unregistered permit).

Again much appreciate all your time and comments:)