The end of petrol cars could be just eight years away

[KGB]

 

Ive been considering an outback power system.

I figure power isn't getting any cheaper or more reliable, and in metro Melbourne a diesel generator won't make too many friends.  Seems to be a cash flow equation more than anything else as in the long run it has to stack up...  I've heard LG are the go-to guys, not so much fancy pants Tesla.  As mentioned, it seems like a more sensible "investment" than gold taps and fripperies.

Solar array and salt tower might be mission creep.

Could always get a virtual reality vision system for the porsche which has been attached to a generator so you can drive it in the garage (virtual mountains) while charging the EV so you can send it on an autonomous mission to get some milk and more fuel to be used to charge it.

I think that's effectively how the BMW i3 works.  Makes a small fortune out of a bigger one.

 

 

[Redracn]

 

I figure power isn't getting any cheaper or more reliable, and in metro Melbourne a diesel generator won't make too many friends.  Seems to be a cash flow equation more than anything else as in the long run it has to stack up...  I've heard LG are the go-to guys, not so much fancy pants Tesla.  As mentioned, it seems like a more sensible "investment" than gold taps and fripperies.

Solar array and salt tower might be mission creep.

I think that's effectively how the BMW i3 works.  Makes a small fortune out of a bigger one.

 

Gensets are only required a few times a year when the clouds are an issue. They are only needed in the system to keep the solar array and batteries a reasonable size. You would also only run it during the day to charge the batteries. Some gens are also quieter than a pool pump.  

Part of the equation is the price you put on reliability of supply.

[Coastr]

KGB spend the cash in the garage and forget the battery systems - too early to buy just yet.   Add solar for cost reduction and get a gennie for the inevitable blackouts that are coming our way like an unstoppable train.  Make sure the kitchen is gas powered and put in led lighting and you'll be able to keep on truckin' when the sun stops shining and wind stops blowing.

[firstone]

It seems lithium batteries are surpassed by zinc bromine or now the csiro are developing zinc bromine gel.

[LeeM]

 Tell that to Whyalla, SA about generators!

 I was stuck in that hole for 24 hours with one job to finish, with no phone (mobile or land line) food, drink NOTHING available to buy, because the servo's, motel and shops had no back up gennie's. I lived on a bag of Twisties and a few cans of scotch, because all the places I went to stock up at couldn't accept payment due to not being able to use their card facilities or give me a receipt for cash. What? You're kidding me? You don't have a pen and piece of paper to write on? Backward hicks! With no phone service to call or text the missus with what was happening, nor could she call me on a land line, she was very worried. No tv or internet to get information or break the boredom, so you can imagine it was like watching paint dry for the duration. Actually, watching paint dry is probably more entertaining than anything in Whyalla, so maybe it wasn't all that bad! My last client was a right wanker after I'd visited his house 4 times to tell him I couldn't do the job until they had power back on, as I don't have all battery powered tools, nor could I buy any because the hardware stores were closed. He still didn't get it, and I had zero patience for his dribble. It turned out that he had a big gennie, but he forgot to tel me that. Idiot

 Pt Augusta an hour away had fuel and some facilities open, though as I had no fuel whatsoever, I didn't fancy being stuck halfway in that kinda country, as I'd end up disappearing and end up as a Dingo's dinner with some of the locals not being very friendly at all, so that wasn't an option. The motel (biggest and best in that town) were useless, as they just wouldn't allow me to grab any food that was in the fridge or a packet of crisps, drinks etc. I know the owner who is in Adelaide, yet couldn't get hold of him to have a whinge and get them to sort it out for me. Bloody hopeless, so I didn't pay my room bill at the end of it. That was how most of the business owners were, useless!! The only good thing the next morning was a small deli had a gennie that made me some bacon and egg rolls and other food n drink supplies, yet I still couldn't get any fuel to leave the place

 It was an experience I'd rather not go through again, though will in future ensure I have enough fuel to get the hell out of there if required. And more scotch!

   Why people don't prepare for the worst is beyond me, especially running a business. I had a big gennie at home, but allowed a mate's mum and dad to borrow it not long before the outage. Permanently by the looks of it now, as my request for it's return have fell on deaf ears, so I'm going to buy one when I can just to power up a fridge or some lights for when we get another outage, as it will no doubt happen again with this idiotic government. I just hope that I'm not stuck in that god forsaken dump when it does!

[Pork Chops]

So there seems to be a few people with the right smarts around this stuff on the forum (that or they're highly opinionated!  Just joking), so why not turn our energies into how we deal with the possibility of a lack of reliable supply of electricity in our homes and businesses.

I'd certainly appreciate knowing where to read a bit more.  Not hard core tech stuff.  Accessible, relatable and ideally points us in the direction of a cost effective, technically viable solution.  I read above and started googling generators but wondered where you go for fact based holistic solutions.

These guys look OK for a start point, but I'm easily impressed!  http://www.offgridenergy.com.au/.  Who is a responsible and professional vendor of these type of products and services?

What are the components of a system you might install?

Generators - coal, gas, wind, solar, ICE generators - on your property or Hazlewood

Storage Systems - fed by solar, fed by the grid when the power is cheap and used when it's expensive?  To be used when the grid fails?

[LeeM]

  I dare say I could be labeled opinionated which is fair, as I'm not that well educated on most things, though I reckon I know what is sensible for me

 If you're going to spend a shedload of cash on emergency power back up, good for anyone that can afford to do that (I can't, nor would I if I could to be honest), yet you'd want a day or 3 battery power reserve to justify the coin for what might be a once a year occurrence in my opinion. I'm thinking more like a big enough gennie to power a fridge to save losing $200 worth of food and charge a phone/internet router etc. Cheap, simple and does the job

[Pork Chops]

  I dare say I could be labeled opinionated which is fair, as I'm not that well educated on most things, though I reckon I know what is sensible for me

 If you're going to spend a shedload of cash on emergency power back up, good for anyone that can afford to do that (I can't, nor would I if I could to be honest), yet you'd want a day or 3 battery power reserve to justify the coin for what might be a once a year occurrence in my opinion. I'm thinking more like a big enough gennie to power a fridge to save losing $200 worth of food and charge a phone/internet router etc. Cheap, simple and does the job

Come on Lee we're all opinionated are we not?!  I reckon your suggestion has legs, but I also wonder what cost savings can be had from a more costly /functional system and where the break even point lies.  I'm guessing it's 5+ years so you need the cash up front and to know you're staying put.

[LeeM]

  I'm not a tight arse by any means, yet I like the simplest solution to what is arguably a pretty easy problem to solve if and when the situation arises. I've spoken with others who are pretty smart with this kinda thing (does my head in, as I just don't understand what they're talking about), and even they agree that spending a large wedge of folding is pretty pointless unless you REALLY spend up big. Coupla grand, fine, yet some are spending triple or quadruple that 'just incase'. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.  A quality gennie that's maintained and started now and then is a much more cost effective 'just incase' solution, but that's me

[firstone]

Storage batteries are not cost effective yet.

Lithium is to be surpassed soon IMO.

I'm off to the next property too often to entertain anything other than a petrol gen for fridge and tv.

The articles I read about gens led me to believe you add the start up flow required for each item equals kw output necessary. 

[KGB]

KGB spend the cash in the garage and forget the battery systems - too early to buy just yet.   Add solar for cost reduction and get a gennie for the inevitable blackouts that are coming our way like an unstoppable train.  Make sure the kitchen is gas powered and put in led lighting and you'll be able to keep on truckin' when the sun stops shining and wind stops blowing.

That's not a silly idea.   I'll ask my sparky if the required generator would be smaller in size than a VW Polo or not.

I'm a bit fixated on battery storage and maybe gaming the off peak power rate.  Then it kinda makes sense, but I'm sure the power co's will close that one.  It's all a bit confusing, and there ain't no perpetual motion machine...

So there seems to be a few people with the right smarts around this stuff on the forum (that or they're highly opinionated!  Just joking), so why not turn our energies into how we deal with the possibility of a lack of reliable supply of electricity in our homes and businesses.

I'd certainly appreciate knowing where to read a bit more.  Not hard core tech stuff.  Accessible, relatable and ideally points us in the direction of a cost effective, technically viable solution.  I read above and started googling generators but wondered where you go for fact based holistic solutions.

These guys look OK for a start point, but I'm easily impressed!  http://www.offgridenergy.com.au/.  Who is a responsible and professional vendor of these type of products and services?

What are the components of a system you might install?

Generators - coal, gas, wind, solar, ICE generators - on your property or Hazlewood

Storage Systems - fed by solar, fed by the grid when the power is cheap and used when it's expensive?  To be used when the grid fails?

This^

 

 

 

 

[firstone]

Catalyst on ABC. 'Battery powered homes,' is worth a look.

[Pork Chops]

Catalyst on ABC. 'Battery powered homes,' is worth a look.

Just ain't the same without her....

[Redracn]

Catalyst on ABC. 'Battery powered homes,' is worth a look.

Batteries do not power homes. They are just an expensive attempt to alleviate the short comings of the unreliables (wind/solar) by atempting to improve the reliability at someone elses expense and disassociate the DIRTY batteries from the not so clean unreliables. 

 

Storage Systems - fed by solar, fed by the grid when the power is cheap and used when it's expensive?  To be used when the grid fails?

Cleaver ploy by the government to get You/Us plebs to pay in an attempt to fix the shortcomings of the Unreliable's (Wind/Solar)

[firstone]

I don't suggest anyone subscribe to their solution.

Still interesting to know the options.

Perhaps if people had to create and store their own electrical energy they may actually find an reason to conserve it.

Just like growing your own food leads to less waste.

 

[Redracn]

Household batteries will be good for those that can afford them as they will offer short term protection from the comming blackouts (as long as this is the usage stratergy). Problem is that if you are concerned about CO2 emissions and the whole global warming fantasy then batteries are not what you would want as their use INCREASES CO2 emissions (in addition to CO2 emitted in manufacture/mining). You will need to produce around an additional 30% to cover the losses of the power run through in the storage and this additional power comes from COAL and GAS.  

[Coastr]

You need a specialist ... Find someone in the mining industry who sets up remote site offices etc.  for built in generators diesel is the way to go, because the fuel storage is easier (doesn't go off).  There are guys buying up ex mine generators and flogging for big profits.

Battery storage is interesting but it is very early days and you might end up being one of those guys who bought a $20k 40 in plasma TV.  Forget wind - but solar for elec and hot water can work ok, just don't expect it to run your whole house.

As already said the key is to not build in a ton of energy requirement in the first place.  Good design and materials will reduce the total energy required.

[LeeM]

Batteries do not power homes. They are just an expensive attempt to alleviate the short comings of the unreliables (wind/solar) by atempting to improve the reliability at someone elses expense and disassociate the DIRTY batteries from the not so clean unreliables. 

Cleaver ploy by the government to get You/Us plebs to pay in an attempt to fix the shortcomings of the Unreliable's (Wind/Solar)

 Correctamundo! 

[Redracn]

 

[Coastr]

Surely a tow truck is going to be a better solution here?  Wow it woud

 take hours for that to make a difference.

[Redracn]

Surely a tow truck is going to be a better solution here?  Wow it woud

 take hours for that to make a difference.

Driving through town on the back of a tow truck? Now that would be PR

[Apogee]

I'm waiting for Mr Fusion to be available...

[Cars And Coffee Byron Bay]

Why doesnt a central body purchase a large generator which can be connected to the grid.  All the interested parties can pay a monthly fee and a usage fee to use this generator.  Perhaps this large generator could be owned by a non commercial group (who makes no profit) and all funds are reinvested to make the generator even better. 

 

I think im onto something here....

[Coastr]

Why doesnt a central body purchase a large generator which can be connected to the grid.  All the interested parties can pay a monthly fee and a usage fee to use this generator.  Perhaps this large generator could be owned by a non commercial group (who makes no profit) and all funds are reinvested to make the generator even better. 

 

I think im onto something here....

revolutionary stuff!   You could build the generator next to the power source and then have a single set of high voltage lines going into where all the people who need the power live.

If you built it big enough you'd get economies of scale and you could forward sell the power to people who need lots of it.  So you could probably build some factories and smelters to use the power and start building things like cars and steel and aluminium for houses.  Then you wouldn't have to buy it all in on ships from China and people would be busy working and they might even pay taxes.

I really think you're onto something,

[Cars And Coffee Byron Bay]

revolutionary stuff!   You could build the generator next to the power source and then have a single set of high voltage lines going into where all the people who need the power live.

If you built it big enough you'd get economies of scale and you could forward sell the power to people who need lots of it.  So you could probably build some factories and smelters to use the power and start building things like cars and steel and aluminium for houses.  Then you wouldn't have to buy it all in on ships from China and people would be busy working and they might even pay taxes.

I really think you're onto something,

It must be the sea air getting to both of us.....i'm going for a lie down.