Jcg1 Posted 12June, 2017 Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 the time has come and the engine Is out and in pieces. Found 3 broken head studs so this has forced a full rebuild.bang for buck what do you guys suggest? Real life experience would be great. I have already bought some ssi so apar from that I'm open for suggestions.( cams, head work, carby etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 12June, 2017 Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 What motor type is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcg1 Posted 12June, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 Oops.. sorry guys it's a 3lt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 12June, 2017 Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 sounds like junk... sell it to me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 12June, 2017 Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 Costs can add up quickly when you start upgrading things. The first step really, is to strip down the engine and see what condition it is in. Depending on what needs repairing/replacing can help guide you where to go. If you can get away with a basic freshen up on most of the stuff, then just a nice cam, could do you well. What induction will you go? If you stick with CIS, from my understanding, they do not give you much scope for mods. Once you start down the rabbit hole it can be difficult to find your way back out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 12June, 2017 Report Share Posted 12June, 2017 bang for buck what do you guys suggest? Real life experience would be great.Been doing a lot of reading on this lately and the best bang for your buck is adding a turbo it would appear. Uncle's build thread doing the exact same thing to his 3 litre should interest you: http://porscheforum.com.au/topic/1555-77-30-build/It appears to get any real hp gain from a NA engine is horrendously expensive and by any objective measure a 3.6 litre swap from a 964/993 is the sensible approach. Still horrendously expensive to the point you might be better served in trading your car for one that already been swapped as the resale of hot-rodded cars is generally lower than the stockers.In the end it comes back to how much you want to spend with a good exhaust being the best place to start. Getting your 3 litre up to 204hp "tune" would also be a good start too if it's not already there. Converting the CIS to EFI might interest you too in terms of tune ability and looking for a thread on this topic by Bumble would be worthwhile. I've got a 3.2 rebuild coming up and I've come to the conclusion that I can't see the return on spending big bucks for a few extra horse power. Unfortunately these engines aren't like LS's where a new cam and a tune will net an easy 100 hp for about grand. Consequently I'm thinking of just replicating the standard "mechanics" of the highest tune these engines came in (231hp), a good exhaust, Wong chip and modern injectors and leave it at that. The money I don't spend by not going down this slippery slope will buy another nice Ducati or two.However if money is no real object, you are spoiled for choice and I suggest looking at recent posts by Pork Chops and MFX for some ideas.Will be interesting which way you go so please post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 You're kind of limited by the CIS. I've heard that fitting S cams & a 3.3L oil pump is a good value for money starting point. Beyond that, consider changing the induction system, but be prepared to start spending mega $$$'s. Has your engine had hydraulic chain tensioners fitted? If not, do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 My 2c for 'worth while' items to consider/do98mm piston and barrels for the additional torqueobviously new guides and re-seat the valvesgood exhaust, SSIs were an instant improvement prior to the engine buildCam regrind, just cause you can and I am a sucker for a lumpy idle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 What do you reckon it would cost to build something like this here?http://rasantproducts.com/3-5l-engine-build/278 rwhp = 208rwkW = about 250kW at the crankParts alone:$5k USD for P&C's$1.2k USD for cams$5k USD for EFI and ignition$?? twin plug heads$2k USD for basic headers and mufflerA bit for shipping, currency conversion and GST and we're at around $20,000 AUD aren't we or have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 You still have to factor in everything else, as far as bolts, bearings, valve guides, etc, etc. You also have machining.It all really depends on how far you want to go and at what level. You can do up some ITB's from Triumph carbs which are probably half the price of PMO's. EFI, you can go Mega Squirt at the low end, or Motec at the high end. Most of this is assuming that everything you are reusing is all good. I also am assuming that you will be building the engine yourself, otherwise you have quite a bit of labor on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 Spot on Jeff,To simply recondition the engine, including new P&C's I'm expecting a bill of around $13,000 for parts and specialist services such as crank polishing, rod resizing and head work with my labour uncosted.Like you say, the cost of performance modifications are on top of this.The OP's question of "bang for your buck" sparked my interest in identifying what are the best value modifications. For a 3.2 I'm thinking:Muffler and chip - 10 to 15hp for $1,5003.4 litre kit - min 15hp for an extra $2,000 on top of the rebuild cost abovethen everything starts to get really expensive for similar and even smaller gains! MAP, cams, twin plugs, Haltec, headers.If anyone thinks I've got this wrong, I'm all ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 It is definitely a case of diminishing returns. Like you mentioned earlier, the biggest gains for the money would come from adding a turbo, but it depends on if that is what you want. I came to a similar conclusion on price with the rebuild of mine, it is only because of some very generous people that I can make my budget stretch a lot further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pork Chops Posted 13June, 2017 Report Share Posted 13June, 2017 Depends on what you value. Looks, fuel economy, maximising torque curve, starts first time every time, idles nice, doesn't smell of fuel, 30-80hp more than standard, can be tuned, can run different cams, throttle response, sound, how 'nice' an engine is. Take a balanced view of what 'bang' looks like in the real world, work out your budget (remembering the basics need attending to first), work out your options. Shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 14June, 2017 Report Share Posted 14June, 2017 Yes agreed, our motivation to spend money on these cars can't be fully explained by hp increases alone and "bang" means different things to different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 14June, 2017 Report Share Posted 14June, 2017 Absolutely. For me, I have had some powerful turbo cars in my past, but straight out power is not my motivation. I am not interested in drag racing, and while the turbo power delivery can put a huge smile on your face, it is not what I am after. I like NA. The look, the sound, the response. I have also found, at least in my opionion, it is much easier and more rewarding to drive a less powerful car fast on a back road, than to constantly be trying to manage a really powerful car on the same road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vl gra Posted 14June, 2017 Report Share Posted 14June, 2017 Sounds like you guys need to rip these vw motors out and drop an LS in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 14June, 2017 Report Share Posted 14June, 2017 Sounds like you guys need to rip these vw motors out and drop an LS in Talk to @MrRJP about that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 27June, 2017 Report Share Posted 27June, 2017 At what point, does "upgrading" to a later 964 or 993 with Varioram become a sensible option?964 are 250hp stock.. and with exhaust, chip etc are likely good for say... 270ish? http://www.instant-g.com/products/36conversions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 27June, 2017 Report Share Posted 27June, 2017 At what point, does "upgrading" to a later 964 or 993 with Varioram become a sensible option?964 are 250hp stock.. and with exhaust, chip etc are likely good for say... 270ish? http://www.instant-g.com/products/36conversions I've done this twice and sure the power is good, but it was for track cars.road cars I wouldn't bother, a hotted up 2.7, 3.0 etc with some sensible weight saving would be more than enough. Hell, any 911 engine with lightened flywheel and ITB's is hilarious fun blipping up and down through the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlitzKonig Posted 28June, 2017 Report Share Posted 28June, 2017 I've done this twice and sure the power is good, but it was for track cars.road cars I wouldn't bother, a hotted up 2.7, 3.0 etc with some sensible weight saving would be more than enough. Hell, any 911 engine with lightened flywheel and ITB's is hilarious fun blipping up and down through the gears.Easier on that poor 915 as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 28June, 2017 Report Share Posted 28June, 2017 Easier on that poor 915 as well... and brakes, and easier to keep cool, etc etcit's never 'just' an engine swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcg1 Posted 30June, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 30June, 2017 Update98mm piston and barrels ordered, 964 cam grind, ssi and bling through the whole engine bay.also had gearbox fresh3ned up and new clutch while it's out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 1July, 2017 Report Share Posted 1July, 2017 What P&C's did you get?Mahle or Nickies or boring and replating your originals and adding JE's or Carillos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcg1 Posted 1July, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 1July, 2017 Nickies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 1July, 2017 Report Share Posted 1July, 2017 Nickies Compression ratio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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