Future of Porsche and Fuels

[Oli.Parashos]

Hello Everyone,

I am currently studying in high school, and I am doing a research project on the future of Porsche and in particular the future of the sustainability of Porsche. From my research I have discovered that Porsche are in development of synthetic fuels which could be used as an alternative to electric vehicles. Simply put, Synthetic fuels are made from using electricity to split water molecules back into its basic elements (Hydrogen and Oxygen) through a process called electrolysis. After this the captured hydrogen is mixed with carbon monoxide produced from the captured CO2 to create hydrocarbons- which are similar to the ones found in regular fossil fuels. As these have the potential to significantly reduce carbon emissions compared to the usual fossil fuels are used today, this can allow the production of combustion engines to continue without as many environmental implications.

As Porsche are soon saying goodbye to their legacy of the flat 6 combustion engine in the next decade, synthetic fuels can offer a way to keep the petrol engines alive.

As I assume you all must hold Porsche very close to your heart, I would love to hear your opinions on the future of Porsche electric and whether synthetic fuels may be a viable option.

[hugh]

I don't know enough of the science to comment in detail but it all seems to be sounding positive. Definitely seems to make more sense than trying to replace all ICE cars/transport with EV (and the infrastructure to match). By simply being able to transition to a synthetic fuel allows all of the current engines & infrastructure to remain and continue on. Much more environmentally friendly then having it all scrapped/demolished and completely rebuilding a new transport system for the world, but it will have to compete with the EV movement due to potentially not being as profitable. Interesting times for sure, hopefully Porsche can contribute to a workable solution. 

[Harsh]

Currently working in the oil/gas industry and at present upgrading battery chargers and batteries (albeit Ni-Cad) so, sorry I don't have all that much faith in full EV vehicles and the required charging infrastructure. I would love to have a crack at a  decent hybrid but nothing currently takes my fancy. I intend driving my 911 until I can longer drive safely or I am dead, probably about 15 summers!

Glad to see someone looking at alternatives (like porsche synthetic fuel) I think hydrogen could be just as useful in the long run. Hyundai have just sold the ACT 20 suv's and last year 56,000 were produced worldwide.

Easier to put in some hydrogen tanks than build EV charging stations all over the country. And filling a hydrogen car quicker than charging

[Raven]

Try this thread on Porsche E fuels , currently being used in cupcars  and Porsche customer race cars like the Cup R Cup S in Europe and the U,S , saw it when I was in Stuttgart last month .

 

 

[Oli.Parashos]

 

I have also been researching about several different countries plans on when they are going to convert to all electric vehicles. I have found many countries have their own different ways of converting to sustainable alternatives. For example, In Australia it is forecasted that between 2045 and 2050 more than 20 million electric vehicles- close to 100 per cent of vehicles on the road. The Australian Government has announced their plan to improve the usability of EV’s by improving the access to charging stations. Compared to other countries such as the USA with Biden setting a target to have half of the vehicles sold in 2030 to be zero- emissions vehicles.  Australia’s sustainable plans are coming a lot later.

This means that we could still continue to see car culture in Australia strive more as more people can drive their combustion cars without the worries of carbon-emission regulations.  

What are your thoughts on this? Is it a good thing that Australia are coming late to the carbon emitting bans?

[LeeM]

5 hours ago, Oli.Parashos said:

 For example, In Australia it is forecasted that between 2045 and 2050 more than 20 million electric vehicles- close to 100 per cent of vehicles on the road. The Australian Government has announced their plan to improve the usability of EV’s by improving the access to charging stations. Compared to other countries such as the USA with Biden setting a target to have half of the vehicles sold in 2030 to be zero- emissions vehicles.  Australia’s sustainable plans are coming a lot later.

This means that we could still continue to see car culture in Australia strive more as more people can drive their combustion cars without the worries of carbon-emission regulations.  

What are your thoughts on this? Is it a good thing that Australia are coming late to the carbon emitting bans?

 Who is forecasting that...the greenies? What a load of crap. 

With that information, how are they going to have 100% electric vehicles when there is NO possibility of the necessary infrastructure to be able to charge 20 million cars nearly every day without billions upon billions of dollars being invested? 

 The power grid required for that is a gargantuan exercise, so do you honestly think the Australian Government will invest that heavily ?

 I recently watched a brief video of a scientist explaining that one company in the US wants to go full electric with their fleet of trucks which will need to have 2 batteries weighing up to 8000lb each, yet when they submitted their plans to investigate the possibility further, the power companies said the massive out of draw on the grid required would need to be enough to power a whole city, and that it will not be possible unless a power station was built solely for the trucks! 

 It's a pipe dream if you or anyone believe the planet will be SOLELY electric vehicles, as do you honestly think all the government's around the world are willing to forego trillions of dollars worth of fuel taxes? 

 Fossil fuels are here to stay, or at the very least sustainable fuel alternatives like Porsche are creating.

[Harsh]

Australian Battery Stewardship stated there would be more than 700,000 tonnes of spent batteries looking for disposal in 10 years time !!! Or maybe 70,000 tonnes either way a sitload of batteries to get rid of

[Oli.Parashos]

16 hours ago, LeeM said:

 Who is forecasting that...the greenies? What a load of crap. 

With that information, how are they going to have 100% electric vehicles when there is NO possibility of the necessary infrastructure to be able to charge 20 million cars nearly every day without billions upon billions of dollars being invested? 

 The power grid required for that is a gargantuan exercise, so do you honestly think the Australian Government will invest that heavily ?

 I recently watched a brief video of a scientist explaining that one company in the US wants to go full electric with their fleet of trucks which will need to have 2 batteries weighing up to 8000lb each, yet when they submitted their plans to investigate the possibility further, the power companies said the massive out of draw on the grid required would need to be enough to power a whole city, and that it will not be possible unless a power station was built solely for the trucks! 

 It's a pipe dream if you or anyone believe the planet will be SOLELY electric vehicles, as do you honestly think all the government's around the world are willing to forego trillions of dollars worth of fuel taxes? 

 Fossil fuels are here to stay, or at the very least sustainable fuel alternatives like Porsche are creating.

I hope you are right mate and I completely see where you are coming from, I want fossil fuels to stay. I don't want electric vehicles to takeover society. 

[LeeM]

3 hours ago, Harsh said:

Australian Battery Stewardship stated there would be more than 700,000 tonnes of spent batteries looking for disposal in 10 years time !!! Or maybe 70,000 tonnes either way a sitload of batteries to get rid of

 Yet these dickhead 'Stop oil' protestors interrupting everyone else's lives and vandalising buildings etc,  have nothing to say about the ecological damage that will do? Those same morons are still driving their fossil fuelled cars, using fossil fuelled power to heat and cool their homes, be able to switch a light on etc etc. If they're so hell bent on their agenda, then sell your cars, sell your homes and go live in a forest and live on berries for the rest of your sorry ass lives FFS! 

2 hours ago, Oli.Parashos said:

I hope you are right mate and I completely see where you are coming from, I want fossil fuels to stay. I don't want electric vehicles to takeover society. 

 Good 👍 It's been proven time and time again that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have it 100% fossil free, and as I mentioned above, the government's won't allow it.

All they're doing is appeasing a minority with their claims of climate change to shut them up for 5 minutes, yet those same dickheads don't want to listen to scientists who have proved that the climate change thing is a farce. You won't see that on national TV news, as those who own the media are under instruction to only tell you what are allowed to hear. 

 I'm just gobsmacked that more and more people have bought into all of this bullshit, yet they too are still owning ICE vehicles and homes that require a power station to flick their lights on etc. Sure they might buy a Tesla or whatever if that makes them think they're saving the planet, yet what power source charges them up at night? How are those battery ingredients being mined?  It's all over the internet with how much earth needs to be mined to extract lithium, so maybe people should actually do some of their own research before listening to some unemployed protestor idiot who has nothing better to do with their life

[JWM]

Like many things, lots of people (read: oil companies) had motivations to make this more confusing than it really is, but the basics are simple. The atmosphere traps heat with greenhouse gases, if you increase them, which we are burning fossil fuels, the planet gets warmer. 

Lots of challenges to decarbonising the economy, and you’ve pointed a few out, but the need to do so is very simple and clear. 

Anyway, personally I’m looking forward to 95% of boring shitboxes on the road being EVs - no noise, no shit I have to breath in (especially Diesel) coming out of them …

Hopefully economies of scale are still there for the other 5% of “interesting” cars to keep running on some synthetic fuel like Porsche are developing for fun weekend drives. 

[Joz]

Yet the fact that water is the most abundant green house gas gets totally ignored, why because it’s not man made.

 

[MFX]

On 31/05/2023 at 12:07, Harsh said:

Easier to put in some hydrogen tanks than build EV charging stations all over the country. And filling a hydrogen car quicker than charging

From the small amount I have heard, Hydrogen is definitely not the answer either. From what I understand the filling stations need to decant to a filler tank that you then connect to to fill the car. If it is full when you turn up at the station your fill time is 5 mins of so. If someone has just filled up in front of you, the filler tank needs another 20-30 minutes to refill, so if you are waiting in line it could be a slow process. This is just me (badly) relaying a journalists experience from a podcast, but I believe the bottom line is Hydrogen is not like filling up with LPG. 

In the end. I am not too worried about all of this talk of 100% EV adoption. The average age of cars on the road in Aus is over 10 years, and that is the average. The poorest of our society are often driving cars 20 years old (or older) as that is what they can afford. So even if they somehow pull off this 100% EV thing by 2035, it will likely be at least 2055 when our poorest are finally driving EV's, so there will need to be readily available fuels of some type available for the fun old stuff that is not an autonomous pod.

[tomo]

14 hours ago, MFX said:

From the small amount I have heard, Hydrogen is definitely not the answer either. From what I understand the filling stations need to decant to a filler tank that you then connect to to fill the car. If it is full when you turn up at the station your fill time is 5 mins of so. If someone has just filled up in front of you, the filler tank needs another 20-30 minutes to refill, so if you are waiting in line it could be a slow process. This is just me (badly) relaying a journalists experience from a podcast, but I believe the bottom line is Hydrogen is not like filling up with LPG. 

In the end. I am not too worried about all of this talk of 100% EV adoption. The average age of cars on the road in Aus is over 10 years, and that is the average. The poorest of our society are often driving cars 20 years old (or older) as that is what they can afford. So even if they somehow pull off this 100% EV thing by 2035, it will likely be at least 2055 when our poorest are finally driving EV's, so there will need to be readily available fuels of some type available for the fun old stuff that is not an autonomous pod.

2035 I think I will probably be compost or close to it in 2035