au-yt Posted 24July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 24July, 2014 I managed to get copy of the Porsche Tiptronic Brochure and it has another bit of insight. seem the modes are sequential so the more you drive in a spirited manner ( dont want to upset the fun police do we) the faster the changes get. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 24July, 2014 Report Share Posted 24July, 2014 Graeme,Are you able to scan and post please?The diagnostic section talks about the shift from the KF1 to KF5 map taking a "minimum of 60 seconds". But doesn't it happen almost instantly when you waggle the throttle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 24July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 24July, 2014 Hi Peter I have extracted some of the text from the brochure however for me it still lacks real usable detail. The first impression is that of a conventional automatic. Closer inspection reveals a new standard in car transmissions. Tiptronic S differs from a conventional automatic gearbox in the design of its shift pattern and the wide scope it offers for varying driving styles. Electronic control of gearshift operations has become the standard for all automatics, normally with a limited choice between Economy and Sport. The advanced microprocessor technology of the Tiptronic S. 8 bit, 32 kB and zero problems. At the heart of the electronic control system of the Tiptronic S lies a state-of-the-art 8 bit microprocessor and external 32-kilobyte EPROM memory. Such technology continuously monitors your Porsche's transmission, control and display units plus other component systems such as the ABS and Motronic engine management system. The purpose for such detailed checks -to ensure maximum performance at all times. In developing this system, one aim was paramount - total reliability. The system had to withstand the demands of temperature, humidity and vibration on its operational ability. All the interfaces are arranged in such a way that any unintended phase reversal or a short-circuit in the cable assembly does not lead to an overall breakdown of the system. In the unlikely event of a malfunction, limited operating capability is maintained at all times. Automatic transmission with throttle control . The new Tiptronic S is pre-programmed with five operating shift patterns that are selected depending upon the amount of throttle applied. Light application of the throttle will produce a smooth, economical drive with early upshifts at low revs. At the other extreme, hard accelera tion will prolong gear changes and cause early downshifts into shorter gears for performance driving at its best. Quick movements of the throttle are detected by the sensors and cause a switch in shift patterns. Continuously firm use of the throttle will create successive upshifts to the highest ,Sport" mode for dynamic, performance car driving. Even in the economy mode, kick down" will create an instant response should the need arise for sudden acceleration. Whatever your style of driving, Tiptronic S decides the most appropriate shift pattern and ensures that revs and torque remain at their Optimum level. In its automatic mode, Tiptronic S offers five programs with differing gearshift patterns. By analysing levels of acceleration and road surface conditions, this intelligent system will select the pattern that is best attuned to your driving style. Within a short space of time you will be familiar with its pattern and will instigate gear changes by mere throttle control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 26July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 26July, 2014 Hi Peter Are you able to scan and post please? Certainly can PM me with the format and the addess.The diagnostic section talks about the shift from the KF1 to KF5 map taking a "minimum of 60 seconds". But doesn't it happen almost instantly when you waggle the throttle? Good Question the text doeasnt expand other to say the change in program appears to be progressive. Googlating (made that up) I did find a lille more info in an article in the Jurnal of Applied Engineering Science No2 Year 13 Vol.11 Page 92 http://scindeks.ceon.rs/article.aspx?artid=1451-41171302089S&redirect=ft Porsche for model 911S had launched new version of tiptronic transmission under the name Tiptronic S. Command of this tiptronic version is replaced from floor to steering wheel. Keys on steering wheel showed that they are more practical for shifting then commands on the fl oor. On the lever gear, on the tunnel between two seats, were left same marks for transmission operations in automatic mode as they have been in previous version of tiptronic. Thanks to the high development programs for gear shifting, in practice is creating strong competition between automatic and conventional transmissions. Better acceleration of vehicle this transmission does not reach compared with conventional transmissions. However, thanks to the many number parameters which were placed in electronic, tiptronic have numerous benefits. The Computer program is open for learning and it is able to “Remember” driver’s behaviour, among other things, also when driver manually shift gears. I also like this description One signifi cant parameter of tiptronic transmission control is speed of layoff of gas pedal.If speed of layoff is slow, for tiptronic control system that means further moving with current speed, and switching to higher gear. If speed of layoff of gas pedal is fast, for tiptronic transmission that means switching to lower gear. Beside this it is very important that an unwanted change to a higher gear does not perform in curvature. In curvature, lateral acceleration sensor acts, which hold the most optimal gear for currently drive speed. Also with electronic, which is responsible for control of automatic transmission is connected ABS (Anti – lock braking system) system. A sensor channel of ABS system provides traction control through regulation of gear. ABS control unit compares rotation number of driven and propulsive wheels and recognizes difference between their traction. [09, 08] At braking, in this situation, the automatic performs changing in higher gear, and thus prevents additional blocking of rear wheels. More Research needed Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 26July, 2014 Report Share Posted 26July, 2014 Yes, yes don't lay off the research and importantly, real world testing! :-)Graeme,Are you able to scan and post in this thread? I find scanning as a jpeg photo file, uploading to Photobucket and posting the link a workable way. Otherwise I can do it for you if you wish.ThanksPeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 26July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 26July, 2014 I may need some assistance with up loading it, as I tried to add some pictures and for some reason it restricted the size of the pictures to the point they were postage stamp size. I will scan it on monday and get back to you. The key thing I am looking for is what KF1 to KF5 actually is and the time it takes to move between the levels and how long they stay active, Cheers Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 26July, 2014 Report Share Posted 26July, 2014 Graeme,You'll find this thread useful for a "how to" on posting photos: As for what "KF" actually means, Kennlinien Faktor translates as characteristic curve number.ie a map of predetermined criteria or code.Rereading 1a "Adaptive Shift" 37-58 above has the answers whereby the transmission will match the driver behaviour with the most appropriate map but limits how quickly the maps change to avoid adapting to the "peaks" of driver behaviour rather than what the driver is generally doing. However, further down the page it talks about how an abrupt change in throttle opening will cause an instant shift to KF5.RegardsPeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 28July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 28July, 2014 Peter thanks for posting pictures link. I can confirm that the speed the throttle is moved definitely changes it behaviour. This doesnt mean driving at warp speed but in slow traffic, a quick flick of the throttle, for want of a better term ( quickly down 1/2 way and quickly to light throttle ) gets instant kick down and will hold the gear. Autos normally needs a longer push and then will return to the higher gear . The change is so quick it surprised me. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 28July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 28July, 2014 This post was a repeat of the last... bad android phone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 28July, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 28July, 2014 Peter thanks for posting pictures link. I can confirm that the speed the throttle is moved definitely changes the gearbox behaviour. This doesnt mean driving at warp speed but in slow traffic, a quick flick of the throttle, for want of a better term (quickly down 1/2 way and quickly to light throttle) gets instant kick down and will hold the gear. This isnt an intuitive process and if I havnt read it I would not have known. Also the speed of the change was a surprise. Autos normally needs a longer push to kick down and then they will quickly return to the higher gear, in fact Tiptronic gearbox will do this if you treat it in the same way as an auto. Also I found that driving slowly with lite throttle input at 50ks tha car holds 3rd gear this may be more of a normal auto function. This gearbox has more tricks in its EPROM memory than first impressions give. . interesting to see what else it does.. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 9August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 9August, 2014 Hi all, A run down the coast to have lunch today I had a chance to play with the cars programing. The rapid foot for want of a better term only works when the computer is in comfort mode, and it also depends on how far you rapidly push you foo, and release. Today I tried it with about 75% and back and it changed down two gears and very quickly It wont do it when youare any of the other maps. It appears to hold the map for about 1 minute than reverts to comfort. Tiptrinic can change gears quicker than you can manually even when it put in manual mode and in comfort to the next map its actually surprisingly quick. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 9August, 2014 Report Share Posted 9August, 2014 Hi Graeme, I have found this thread really interesting reading and informative. I got my car out of the shed for the first time in close to 8 weeks and went for a run down the peninsula along the freeway today. I was trying the same thing and you are right it's very quick in changes when you tap the throttle. Normally I would bang it across to manual but I will keep trying the tapping the throttle method to find out more about its capabilities. Clever and beautiful what more could we want Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 9August, 2014 Report Share Posted 9August, 2014 sorry if this has been answered before... is the tiptronic in the 993 the same as a 964? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 9August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 9August, 2014 sorry if this has been answered before... is the tiptronic in the 993 the same as a 964? Mike From what I have read the actual transmission are the same, programs I am not so sure. I would be interested to read what 964 owner’s experiences are. The key difference with the 993 S is the switches on the steering wheel. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 9August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 9August, 2014 Hi Graeme, I have found this thread really interesting reading and informative. I got my car out of the shed for the first time in close to 8 weeks and went for a run down the peninsula along the freeway today. I was trying the same thing and you are right it's very quick in changes when you tap the throttle. Normally I would bang it across to manual but I will keep trying the tapping the throttle method to find out more about its capabilities. Clever and beautiful what more could we want Cheers Chris Hi Chris Before I settled on a Tiptronic I spoke to some other owners and one comment was that on twisty roads changing gear is easier than a manual, Kiama Bends yesterday second gear or what I would imagine is about 3rd in a manual, good fun punching it out of corners, although my wife complained must you do that, it makes my head snap backwards....The Varioram in the short intake mode has instant throttle response.... nice Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 10August, 2014 Report Share Posted 10August, 2014 Ha yes, I find the same on twisty roads. One of our favorite SMT roads here in Vic I can just about leave it in second the whole way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 10August, 2014 Report Share Posted 10August, 2014 Hmmm,... Just drove a 964 tipper.... Unlike my cayman, i could not get it to kick down unless I floored the pedal.... Not sure if I wasn't doing something right, or if there was something wrong with it. As a touring car, it was great.... Nice and smooth. Annoying that it couldn't start from first gear in auto mode though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 10August, 2014 Report Share Posted 10August, 2014 Mike,Start on page one of this thread and you will find the answers to your concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 10August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 10August, 2014 Hmmm,... Just drove a 964 tipper.... Unlike my cayman, i could not get it to kick down unless I floored the pedal.... There may be a difference in the soft ware, however the speed of the pedal movment down up is important and how far, also it needs to be in the comfort mode, this is when its just tootling along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 10August, 2014 Report Share Posted 10August, 2014 Hmmm,... Just drove a 964 tipper.... Unlike my cayman, i could not get it to kick down unless I floored the pedal.... Not sure if I wasn't doing something right, or if there was something wrong with it. As a touring car, it was great.... Nice and smooth. Annoying that it couldn't start from first gear in auto mode though... Have you driven a manual one yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 17August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 17August, 2014 I went to CMC Day at Easter Creek with the NSWPC, bucketing rain and all. A good day with numbers well down for obvious reasons. For my troubles had two slow controlled laps of the full circuit, hum this thing does go. Driving out to the circuit there is something I have been doing with the car is off the lights, is a +25% quick squeeze and then a continual push of the throttle and it holds the gear and in this case 2nd, makes for a rapid but unfussed departure, The other Autos I drive for work etc don’t do this, they just keep changing up a gear unless you floor them. I am not sure if the normal Tiptronics do this interested to know if others have found the same? Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 17August, 2014 Report Share Posted 17August, 2014 Graeme, Yes, the combination of "quick squeeze" and greater than 35% throttle opening triggers the KF5 map and the engine stays in the meaty part of the torque curve. Usually makes me laugh out loud too! After 30 years of driving convention autos, it is a bit of a change swapping WOT with quick throttle movement AND WOT to get kick down and hold gear function that mimics the same connected feel you get with a manual car and maximum acceleration. Cheers Peter PS: How did you go with jpeg of the Tip brochure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevepGT3 Posted 17August, 2014 Report Share Posted 17August, 2014 I always thought autos were supposed to make driving easier, after reading all this I feel that I am probably too stupid to ever consider a Tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 17August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 17August, 2014 Graeme, Yes, the combination of "quick squeeze" and greater than 35% throttle opening triggers the KF5 map and the engine stays in the meaty part of the torque curve. Usually makes me laugh out loud too! After 30 years of driving convention autos, it is a bit of a change swapping WOT with quick throttle movement AND WOT to get kick down, hold gear function that mimics the same connected feel you get with a manual car and maximum acceleration. Cheers Peter PS: How did you go with jpeg of the Tip brochure? Peter I scaned it, but its 7.86 MB i am edevouring to email it to you Steve The Tip does make it easier just there isnt any documented "how to" so as to be able to understand what it does its almost like they left it to the owners. Graeme Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 19August, 2014 Report Share Posted 19August, 2014 Thanks to Graeme's persistence we probably have the most comprehensive thread on early Tips: Chris-p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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