996 IMS Issue - How real is it?

[Macca]

 

The best case scenario is removing the old bearing to replace it as a preventative maintenance item and finding the old bearing in perfect condition. A less than ideal situation is to find that the bearing has already deteriorated and started shedding metal particles that have been traveling around the engine doing other damage, or 

 

Couldn't agree more, thank you for the comprehensive and informative post. 

 

As for the EPS cylindrical roller bearing, I had a couple of people advise me to stick with the LN option as the EPS one hasn't been around long enough to prove itself and one Porsche specialist said he had already heard of some issues with it. I do believe that some LN bearings have had failures as well, nothings perfect but either option has got to be better than leaving the old bearing t

 

The LN bearings (without oil feed system) I believe last approx 80k before advised to replace (I guess same as the recommended clutch service), What was the issue with the EPS bearing? (It either fails [boom] or keeps turning - so to speak)  Hopefully the only major issue with the EPS is lack of history and feedback. Hopefully my experience with the EPS (and oil feed) is as paid for.      

EPS oil feed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfXjx0tvaMA

 

[Skidmarks]

Got "the call" today On the GT3 motor. 

Not pleasant. Apparently before I got it it had had a BIG over rev which caused the chain guide on one side to come away and deposit various bits of itself in and ar9und the sump. Caused an oil starve to the main bearings on one end of the crank but seems crank is OK. Lay shaft may also be bent. Leak down on one side was great, the other not so much ...

Some strange bearing wear as well and I'm going to have a look just out of interest  

Usually I'd do the whole PPI but bought it from a known source. That said, knowing him as I do, there's no way he would have known what had happened. It had just been out at a club day at the Island and I think that's where it happened. I picked it up from him the week after and it wasn't running badly as if the valves have only had a light kiss, normal running is seemingly unaffected. 

So, crack testing the crank to be sure, giving it a big clean out, new bearings all round, new rings, check the heads and if need be replace valves and check the seats, new rod bolts and, well ... Write a cheque. 

I bought the car well and even with a bug cheque I'm still ahead and at will least now know how the engine is good for a long time to come. 

BTW, the paint job is the best I've seen.  They also used this very trick clear that if you get swirls in it after washing for a while, you leave it in the sun for a couple of hours and the swirls disappear. Voodoo shite but they sweat it works. Who cares, it looks fantastic. 

[Skidmarks]

Update. Crank tested and is fine. 

Got the parts list for the rebuild. Porsches parts target budget for the month of April just got a BIG lift. 

[Skidmarks]

I've been driving the C4S a bit lately and since the IMS fix, I swear that the oil pressure has improved.  At idle it sits at around 3.5 on the gauge but on the move its locked on the 5. I could be wrong but I look at my guages a bit and it struck me as really good.  Or maybe it's just that on the older ones I have the pressure is, shall we say, a little more "relaxed".  

Anyone seen anything similar?

[LS1RX7]

Unlikely the IMS replacement will increase oil pressure, but if you changed the oil with different brand and weight it can achieve this. My oil pressure has increased since I replaced my IMS but I also went from Fuchs 0W-40 to Penrite 5W 40. Car doesn't use any wear near as much oil as it was prior to this change either.

[Mike737]

Unlikely the IMS replacement will increase oil pressure, but if you changed the oil with different brand and weight it can achieve this. My oil pressure has increased since I replaced my IMS but I also went from Fuchs 0W-40 to Penrite 5W 40. Car doesn't use any wear near as much oil as it was prior to this change either.

When you say using oil, in what way was it loosing it? More smoke on startup? How much more would you use per x kms between services?

[LS1RX7]

I think it was just burning the oil because the oil was thinning out too much when at operating temp. It wasn't obvious where the oil was going as it doesn't have any leaks and doesn't blow smoke on start up or when operating but it definitely used oil. I purchased the car in Sydney and drove it back to Townsville which is a bit over 2000 km, it used 1.5L on the trip with the Fuch's 0W-40 oil that the previous owner was using. Since I replaced the IMS and gave it a service replacing the oil with Penrite full synthetic 5W-40 it has done about 4000km and has only used about 500ml. It is a 17 year old car so I would expect some oil usage, and when you look at all the forums most 996's do appear to experience oil usage, some more than others. From my experience owning earthmoving equipment, trucks and racing cars, oil usage is not only caused by engine wear but can also be related to oil brand and type. I used Gulf Western Top Dog XDO diesel engine oil in my excavators for a while and on one particular machine it was noticeably blowing a small amount of smoke consistently and used about 7 litres between services. I switched to a Castrol oil and it stopped blowing smoke and only used about 2 litres between service. I think the old saying " Oil's ain't oil's" rings pretty true.

[Peter M]

With oil consumption just be wary about before and after comparisons where the car has been sitting a long time and only done short trips or brief start ups as the oil can accumulate some fuel dilution and moisture giving a false reading that only becomes apparent after its next long trip.

The other issue that complicates oil usage comparisons is usage where sustained high rpm will use more than just poodling 'round town.

[dan_189]

The service manual also calls out maximum oil consumption at 1L per 1,000kms (for a TT) didn't look for a C2 but I can if anyone wants it

 

[Hughesy]

Gday dan

What's the expected consumption for a C4S 

Thanks Hughesy

[dan_189]

Gday dan

What's the expected consumption for a C4S 

Thanks Hughesy

Hey Hughesy,

Same as the TT

Cheers

[Pork Chops]

Back on the IMS thing.  I had dinner with a good friend of mine last night who sold his early model 997 Carrera about 4 months ago as he lost his license for speeding...

Lovely car everything you'd want it to be.  Well maintained and serviced and looked after.  An auto so no money shifting going on etc.  No monkey business or back stories etc.

Last week he gets a phone call form the guy who bought it and was told the IMS bearing had shat its self and gone right through the engine.  Porsche told him it was a $50k fix. Halve that and you're still screwed.  Car on finance and was only worth $75k.

Nobody's fault...

This is as first hand as it gets so it 100% could happen and personally I'd not leave it to chance.

Just sayin'.

p.s. I asked my mate if he would rather have lost his license for 6 months or have it happen to him. He picked the former so in a twist of fate, a silver lining appeared...

[sandy468]

Geezuz fn cripes! Ok who's got a 997.1 S man coupe to unload - $35k cash waiting, and in being generous!

[TINGY]

This is as real as it get's, someone from Newcastle on the forum has just dodged a very expensive rebuild. Heard an unusual noise and put the car in to the mechanics, pulled off the gearbox and checked it out and sure enough the IMS is on the way out, series one 996. I like these cars but this really puts me off them.

[sandy468]

Any idea how many ks it'd done Porky?

[dan_189]

This is as real as it get's, someone from Newcastle on the forum has just dodged a very expensive rebuild. Heard an unusual noise and put the car in to the mechanics, pulled off the gearbox and checked it out and sure enough the IMS is on the way out, series one 996. I like these cars but this really puts me off them.

Most of the series 1 996s have the original dual row bearing and it had a lower failure rate than the series 2.

Mine is a series 2 and its the first thing I got addressed with the dual row pro by LN when I bought it. 

Not a great story that has just been mentioned  

 

[Pork Chops]

Any idea how many ks it'd done Porky?

I'll check but it was low. 

[sandy468]

I seem to remember some info on here a few times about, it seems to be the low ks ones that have been nursed are a common denominator amongst the implosions..

[Pork Chops]

I'll check but it was low. 

went kaboom at 44k klms.

[dan_189]

I seem to remember some info on here a few times about, it seems to be the low ks ones that have been nursed are a common denominator amongst the implosions..

I have read this too, best to just swap it out as insurance.

[D2000]

I have read this too, best to just swap it out as insurance.

that's the way I looked at it. Factor it into the purchase price. I went with the IMS solution on my 76,000km 996.1. Bearing was fine when they pulled it out but that is not a good indicator of what will happen in the future

[LS1RX7]

I have read this too, best to just swap it out as insurance.

That is exactly what I did, I planned to change the IMS bearing on whatever car i bought. If you treat it like a maintenance item just like a timing belt on other cars you would be pretty safe. I changed IMS and water pump when I bought mine along with a full service all fluids including coolant for peace of mind. I am fortunate enough to be able to do the work myself it cost me under $2000 for all the parts and special tools and only took me a day.

[dan_189]

Awesome that you could do the work yourself! I had to get a "specialist" to do it the experience was horrible but that's another story. 

I'm a fairly savvy DIYer but that was something slightly beyond my ability, especially with the importance of that bearing... 

When it's up for replacement, if I still have the car ill be going with "the solution". 

I also have the LN SOFA installed for extra protection 

[Pork Chops]

that's the way I looked at it. Factor it into the purchase price. I went with the IMS solution on my 76,000km 996.1. Bearing was fine when they pulled it out but that is not a good indicator of what will happen in the future

Without doubt.  It's one thing reading about this stuff on US forums but when there are real and local experiences, who could possibly take the risk given the consequences?  I for one couldn't ever drive it without there being a lingering doubt about it and it would ruin ownership for me.  Negotiate it into the sale and if the seller isn't open to the truth about it then you have to factor that into your decision.  You're buying a $50k car that has had all of the depreciation come out of it and represents amazing value.  Pony up the cash and fix the damn thing already.

[D2000]

  I for one couldn't ever drive it without there being a lingering doubt about it and it would ruin ownership for me.  

That's it exactly