Drove a Tesla today and am a little sad...

[JWM]

Talking to the driver he'd gone from a Merc E class to the Tesla and after 20,000 km he was well and truly a convert, couldn't imagine going back to a 'normal' car as he put it.

Reminds me of this "review"... Piss funny but probably not far from the reality of how people will think about them in a few years!

Having heard so much good about petrol cars, we decided to test drive one. They are said to combine cheap price with long range and fast charging. A winning formula on paper – but how are they in real life?

We sat us in the loaner car at the car salesman’s office. Automakers do not sell the cars themselves, only through independent car repair shops as middlemen. It may sound like a bad omen to buy the car from a car repair shop that you want to visit as seldom as possible. But you apparently can’t buy the car directly from the manufacturer but must go through such intermediaries. The seller was very ”pushy” and tried to convince us to buy the car very forcibly, but the experience is perhaps better elsewhere.

So we sat in the car and pressed the START button. The car’s gasoline engine coughed to life and started to operate. One could hear the engine’s sound and the car’s whole body vibrated as if something was broken, but the seller assured us that everything was as it should. The car actually has an electric motor and a microscopically small battery, but they are only used to start the petrol engine – the electric motor does not drive the wheels. The petrol engine then uses a tank full of gasoline, a fossil liquid, to propel the car by exploding small drops of it. It is apparently the small explosions that you hear and feel when the engine is running.

The petrol engine consists of literally hundreds of moving parts that must have tolerance of hundredths of a millimeter to function. We begun to understand why it is car repair shops that sell the cars – they might hope for something to break in the car that they can mend?

We put in a gear and drove away with a jerk. The jerk came not from any extreme acceleration, but gasoline engines apparently cannot be driven as smoothly as electric motors. The acceleration did not occur at all, because we could not get the car to go faster than 40 km/h! By then the petrol engine literally howled and the whole car shook violently. Convinced that something must have broken we stopped the car. The seller then explained that with petrol engines you need to ”change gears” on a regular basis. Between the engine and the wheels are not a fixed ratio gear, but a variable one. The petrol engine can produce power only in a limited speed range, and must therefore be geared with different ratios in order to continue to accelerate. There are 5 different gears we can select with increasing speed as result. It is -as we learned quickly- very important that each time select a suitable gear otherwise the engine will either stop or get seriously damaged! You need a lot of training to learn to select the right gear at the right time – though there are also models with automatic transmissions that can do this themselves. In the manual transmission car, we needed to constantly guard the engine from damaging it. Very stressful.

We asked if the constant sound of the engine -that frankly disturbed us from being able to listen to the radio- could be turned off. But it couldn’t. Very distracting.

After getting the car up to speed through intricate changing of gears we approached a traffic light. Releasing the accelerator pedal resulted in no significant braking, we had to use the brake pedal very much to slow down the car. We were surprised to hear the brakes are completely mechanical! The only thing they generate is heat – braking gives no regeneration of gasoline back into the tank! Sounds like a huge waste, but it would soon get even worse.

When we came to a stop the engine continued to run and the car vibrate – even though the car was standing still! The engine continued to burn gasoline without moving the car forward. Can it really be true? Yes, the seller explained, it is so with gasoline cars: the engine is always running and burning gasoline – even when the car is stationary. Some models however switches off the engine at a red light, he explained. Well that certainly makes more sense.

After a while we came to a gas station where we could charge the car. The car claimed that it still had half a tank left, but we wanted to try the famous super-fast charging of petrol cars!

So we drove to the gas station and opened the fuel cap. The filling nozzle is very similar to a charging connector, but it is not electrons that come out of it but gasoline. Gasoline is a highly carcinogenic, smelly and flammable liquid derived from plants and animals extinct since millions of years ago. The gasoline is pumped to a tank in the car, which then drives around with about 50 liters of this hazardous liquid in it.

We put the nozzle to the car, but nothing happened. The seller then explained that we must pay to fuel! Much like those extremely expensive fast chargers some electric utility companies have set up. After we put the credit card in the reader we could start fueling. It was extremely fast! In just two minutes we filled the gas tank to the max! But there were two counters on the pump: one that showed the number of liters we have fueled and one that showed how much it would cost us. And that counter was spinning so fast that we could hardly keep up with its pace! Sure we filled the tank full in two minutes, but it did cost us an unbelievable €30! A full charge would thus cost us double that – a whopping €60! We cursed our luck that we apparently have chosen one of the most expensive gas stations, and began to ask the seller what other alternatives are there? How much does it cost to fill up at home, and how many free stations are there?

The seller looked very puzzled at us and explained that it is not possible to refuel gasoline cars at home, and there are no free gas stations. We tried to explain our questions, in case he had misunderstood, but he insisted that you can not. Apparently you have to several times a month drive to the gas station to recharge your petrol car at extortionate prices – there are no alternatives! We thought it was very strange that no gasoline car manufacturers have launched their own free gas stations?

There are no gas stations either where you can fill up more slowly at a cheaper price. We started calculating price versus consumption and came to the shocking conclusion that a petrol car costs unimaginable €12 per 100km! Sure, electric cars could also theoretically come up to these amounts if they quick charged at one of the most expensive charging stations in the country – but for petrol cars there are no cheaper alternatives! While electric cars are comfortably charged at home every night for €2 per 100km petrol cars must make detours several times a month to fill up at these extortionate rates – without exception! Monthly cost for a petrol car can -just for the gasoline alone- easily exceed one hundred Euros! We begun to understand why they are so cheap to purchase – operating them is extremely expensive instead.

We also begun to understand why there must be so many petrol stations everywhere, if all petrol cars always have to drive to them to refuel. Imagine if you could charge your electric car only at the power companies’ most expensive fast chargers – and nowhere else!

With this in mind we ended up in a traffic jam and was horrified that the gasoline engine continued to burn these expensive gasoline drops even when the car was standing still or moving very little. With gasoline vehicles it is easy to run into cost anxiety – the feeling that the car literally burns up your money! No cheap home charging and no regeneration of gasoline back to the fuel tank when braking sounds like economic madness – especially given that all gasoline must be imported from abroad.

We returned the car to the dealer’s premises, pulled the handbrake and step out of the car. The petrol engine continued to run! Apparently one must manually switch off the combustion of the precious liquid. But we wanted to see the petrol engine, so the seller opened the bonnet. The entire front portion of the car was completely cluttered with hoses, fittings, fluid reservoirs, and amid all a huge shaking cast iron block which apparently constituted the motor’s frame. There was no space for luggage in the front of the car! Despite its enormous size, high noise and vibration, the engine barely delivered one hundred horsepower. The engine was also extremely hot, we burned ourselves when we touched it. Even though this was on a warm summer day so the engine did not need to generate heat to the passenger compartment.

We became also worried about what would happen if we crashed with a petrol car? The cast iron block that occupied most of the engine compartment was sitting in the middle of the collision zone! Where would it go if we collided – would we get it in our lap? The salesman assured us that the motor in such case somehow gets folded down under the car but we could not escape the impression that the engine block was very much in the way at the front – the safety beams were built around it, which surely impairs their functionality. Avoiding that one hundred kilo iron lump in the front of the car makes it so much easier to build safe cars. In addition, we have seen on the Internet hundreds of pictures and videos of burning gasoline cars. The petrol tank apparently often leaks after an accident so the flammable liquid pours out and becomes ignited!

From the engine, under the car runs an exhaust system – a kind of chimney for engine exhausts. When you burn the carcinogenic gasoline a lots of noxious gases are produced. The car cleans away the most dangerous gases, but what remains is released into the open air behind the car. It is still unhealthy to breathe in – and smells very bad! And petrol cars are allowed to emit these harmful gases in the middle of our cities? Do not confuse petrol cars’ exhaust pipes with fuel cell cars’ – while hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles emit only water vapor gasoline cars spew out noxious gasses, and even fossil carbon dioxide that contribute to Earth’s future-catastrophic warming!

We thanked the seller for the display, shook our heads and gave back the ignition key (yes, it’s called that) to him. He realized that there would be no business for him so except for one lame attempt he did not try to sell us the car any more.

On the way home in our electric car we looked with completely different eyes at our poor fellow commuters, who still had to put up with their gasoline cars. But soon it will be their turn to trade up, too!

[Redracn]

I would like to thank everybody out there that has a fuel effecient, hybrid or electric car. Your sacrifice in reducing your fuel usage so that I can use more at a lower price is much appreciated. 

[BAFE]

I had the use of an electric car for three months and so had the benefit if living with it in the real world.

It surprises me when people claim that it won't replace their "classic car" .  Of course it won't, neither will a shiny new 911.

We'll keep our combustion engined cars for fun, long distance travel etc

But don't write off the electric car as its a good thing.

In the 3 months I had the car I never once visited a petrol station, that novelty never wore off.  EVER.

They are very different to drive so I believe its difficult to directly compare them.  

Electric vehicles are most efficient and at their best in the congestion of the city & suburbs not on long flat runs in the country.

They love stop start and the general grind of busy traffic ~ all the stuff that combustion engines hate.

Long flat drives in the country kill the battery in an electric car as its just a constant drain with little ability to regenerate power.

So at a push they try to give you as much range as possible and 500kms + would cover most peoples travels however increasingly you'll be able to "fast charge" in more and more locations. I reckon most of us would stop after 5 hours of driving somewhere.

Living in a major city my normal cars are increasingly transport and the number of opportunities i have for them to be more than that seem to be reducing as the years go by and the congestion increases.

The Tesla may well make this type of driving more enjoyable / comfortable.

I'm also seriously looking at the Model 3 as at US$37,000  it could hit the market here <$60K (or about $1,000,000 south pacific pesos)

Of course it won't make great traditional engine noises I'll keep my flat 6 for that but it will be a hell of a lot more comfortable and efficient than my other cars and probably a lot faster in traffic should I choose to push it.

If you want to shit can electric cars a good place to start is to discount the performance figures, technology involved and creature comforts as if these points are somehow unimportant but aren't these the same points used to sell combustion engined cars?

Ultimately we'll all pick and choose whats important to us as individuals and what we like.

I believe that electric cars do have soul its just different from the traditional.

Each to their own i guess 

 

[OZ930]

Have any tests been carried out out on electric cars towing a trailer or caravan or boat ?  How much would/does it affect the range?

If these electric vehicles are to replace the infernal combustion engine then surely they must be able to carry out the same duties. 

 

[LeeM]

If Toyota built an electric Hiace, and it was a similar price to a petrol/diesel powered van, I could see a huge value in it for me and many other tradies

I spend less than $3000 per year on fuel in my van, so it would have to be a very attractive price (aka less than a fossil fuelled vehicle) to buy and electric powered one

  What my questions would be to someone trying to sell me an electric car, is how much does it cost to charge it at home? You'd have to have it on a constant charge overnight or whatever, so the home electricity bill would increase substantially I would imagine. Also, how long will the batteries last before they deteriorate and need replacing? What cost would they be in 2, 3 or 10 years time? They would have to drop off quicker than a combustion engine does, as batteries do a have a limited life

 I'm sure it would be beneficial for an owner who commutes to work and back, yet I just can't see a financial benefit for many years with buying a full electric car

 

 

  

 

[BAFE]

Have any tests been carried out out on electric cars towing a trailer or caravan or boat ?  How much would/does it affect the range?

If these electric vehicles are to replace the infernal combustion engine then surely they must be able to carry out the same duties. 

 

My feeling is they will tow it with no problem at all, as the use of aircon / heating etc makes no impact on the available torque to the motor,

You will however kill the range.

Horses for courses i guess

If Toyota built an electric Hiace, and it was a similar price to a petrol/diesel powered van, I could see a huge value in it for me and many other tradies

I spend less than $3000 per year on fuel in my van, so it would have to be a very attractive price (aka less than a fossil fuelled vehicle) to buy and electric powered one

  What my questions would be to someone trying to sell me an electric car, is how much does it cost to charge it at home? You'd have to have it on a constant charge overnight or whatever, so the home electricity bill would increase substantially I would imagine. Also, how long will the batteries last before they deteriorate and need replacing? What cost would they be in 2, 3 or 10 years time? They would have to drop off quicker than a combustion engine does, as batteries do a have a limited life

 I'm sure it would be beneficial for an owner who commutes to work and back, yet I just can't see a financial benefit for many years with buying a full electric car

 

 

  

 

I agree Lee,

If I could get an electric "combo van" that would be perfect for me.

I rarely drive more than 200kms each day so something with a range of 400-500km is a no brainer

When I had the Nissan Leaf the cost to charge was approx $2.50 /100kms  or $25 for 1,000 kms which is just sensational,

You can charge it overnight from dead flat (easily) and even set it to charge late at night using off peak power to save a little more.

 

Also, how long will the batteries last before they deteriorate and need replacing? What cost would they be in 2, 3 or 10 years time? They would have to drop off quicker than a combustion engine does, as batteries do a have a limited life

 

 

 

  

 

Last I heard on battery life was at 10 years you'll still get 80% of the range.

Thats not when you need to change the battery just that the range will be reduced by 20%.

Also consider where battery technology will be in 10 years time.

Lots of unknowns but i think there will be much interest in solving these issues

[tazzieman]

. Talking to the driver he'd gone from a Merc E class to the Tesla and after 20,000 km he was well and truly a convert, couldn't imagine going back to a 'normal' car as he put it.

In Europe an E class is a bit like a Camry. No wonder he was converted!

I'll admit that on the autobahns at over 200km/hr they will save some fuel, but at that speed you may as well take the train and a latte and not worry about someone pulling out in front of you.

[Coastr]

I think the i3 is an interesting take.  Designed for city use with sharp turning circle, short wheelbase and high visibility. I'd have one if I had the space and the need for it.  I do hate firing up the engine for a heat cycle just to go to the shops.

Mind you, I think the real secret is neighbourhoods where everyone has those golf cart vehicles for getting around.  Just the thing for efficient transport and waving hello to people.

[tazzieman]

Mind you, I think the real secret is neighbourhoods where everyone has those golf cart vehicles for getting around.  

Well to my abject horror , they already exist !

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/09/more-towns-are-falling-in-love-with-golf-carts/406081/

But I wonder how big a battery I can fit into the tray of my 109" Land Rover.

[Peter M]

Well to my abject horror , they already exist !

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/09/more-towns-are-falling-in-love-with-golf-carts/406081/

But I wonder how big a battery I can fit into the tray of my 109" Land Rover.

Taz,

Depends how many spuds would fit in the tray of course!

[Coastr]

Well to my abject horror , they already exist !

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/09/more-towns-are-falling-in-love-with-golf-carts/406081/

But I wonder how big a battery I can fit into the tray of my 109" Land Rover.

hope island on the Gold Coast.  The community has little concrete paths for you 'nev' (neighbourhood electric vehicle) and you pop to the shops quietly and with a jolly 'pip pip' to your neighbours.  It's the go I reckon, especially if they were speed limited to 5mph and you could drive home from the pub as long as you could sit upright.  Any disputes about run-over azaleas could be settled man-to-man the next day.

[tazzieman]

hope island on the Gold Coast.  

Oh yes , Hope island I've been warned off that place. "quite frankly I'm appalled'