IMS guardian

[BOXXXA]

hi guys I'm new to the forum, just wondering if anybody knows who installs a ims guardian in melb? i don't want the original bearing out so I'm not going with the ceramic option, PCM has told me this failure is way way over exaggerated and not to worry about it, some people have even suggested running 5 40 oil instead of factory approved 0 40 M1  anybody got any thoughts on this???

[cyberpunky]

I think they are right about being over hyped but I also think that if it was me I'd still do it, as I struggle to enjoy my car knowing it maybe a time bomb even if the odds are low. The downside if you happen to be one of the unlucky few is just too great to risk it

[BOXXXA]

I think they are right about being over hyped but I also think that if it was me I'd still do it, as I struggle to enjoy my car knowing it maybe a time bomb even if the odds are low. The downside if you happen to be one of the unlucky few is just too great to risk it

thanks bruce its doing my head in atm

[Prav]

I would call Matt at Weltmeister. I think he looked after Amanda's 987 IMS and I've been speaking to him re my 987 engine rebuild.

Tell him you got his name from the forum. If it's Porsche and worth knowing / doing, he's the man.

[MavP]

I think they are right about being over hyped but I also think that if it was me I'd still do it, as I struggle to enjoy my car knowing it maybe a time bomb even if the odds are low. The downside if you happen to be one of the unlucky few is just too great to risk it

 

Any stats or approximations on how many in Australia have suffered "catastrophic engine failure" as a result of an IMS failure in 986/987's?

[BAFE]

i have read somewhere that its about 5%

 

Is 5% a large number?  that's up to you.

 

But in any case whatever the number is it was enough for a successful class action to be taken against Porsche USA.

 

mine's a 2007 Boxster and i probably won't get it done (of course that's my call / roll of the dice)

[NiX]

Hi Boxxxa,

 

Welcome to the forum..

 

I had mine done (IMS Soultion) earlier this year, yes it was expensive but in my mind, small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

Plan on keeping the Boxster & not having to worry about it ever again is the other bonus.

 

They showed me the IMS once removed & it was fine.. but you never know!

[SteveT]

i have read somewhere that its about 5%

 

Is 5% a large number?  that's up to you.

 

But in any case whatever the number is it was enough for a successful class action to be taken against Porsche USA.

 

mine's a 2007 Boxster and i probably won't get it done (of course that's my call / roll of the dice)

Not getting mine done either, taking the chance and fingers crossed.

[withers]

Any stats or approximations on how many in Australia have suffered "catastrophic engine failure" as a result of an IMS failure in 986/987's?

Porsche haven't released any stats on failure, so nobody really knows. The USA class action lawsuit did have failure rates percentages mentioned - with the single row bearing fairing worse than the double row bearing.

One of our members here just had his IMS replaced along with his clutch and there was visible wear and play on his OEM original bearing. Car has just hit 100,000km now. So was a matter of 'time'

Sure there's a lot of hype around this but at the same time it is a weakness and enough cars have failed to show its a potential issue.

[Prav]

Amanda,

You were tossing up between different garages then went with Weltmeister. What clinched it for you?

PK

[webrest]

Boxxxa is not talking about replacing the bearing he is talking about the "IMS Guardian" a totally different approach to the problem.

A warning device that forewarns of  imminent danger rather than taking the far more expensive route of IMS replacement.

It is a method of keeping an eye on metal particles in the oil that displays a warning light if there is a problem.

It is has its origin in aircraft technology.

As it happens I was at a mates place just last night who has a special edition Cayman S and his wife also runs a standard Cayman.

Obviously he is concerned but is reluctant to replace the bearings in both cars due to cost involved so he is thinking of the Guardian route, albeit without all the bells and whistles of the kit but fitting the sensing sump plug and utilizing a normal warning light.

Any way this is what Boxxxa is wanting info on not bearing replacement.

Dave

[withers]

Amanda,

You were tossing up between different garages then went with Weltmeister. What clinched it for you?

PK

Experience. At the time I was deciding on the preventative maintenance, the shop I had booked the car in with refused to do the job as the Aus distributer wouldn't warranty the bearing if it failed. Apparently there had been multiple LN bearing failures in Aus resulting in engine rebuilds. The shop I originally booked the car with refused to take the risk. I contacted the maker LN Enginieering and was told about the IMS Solutuion and that Weltmeister were the first shop in Vic that were installing it. Other I dependants hadn't heard of it at this time.

I did a lot of research. As many here will know. Weltmeister at that time had done a few installs, so I went with experience.

The IMS Solution was in development before LN had created the ceramic bearings and had been using it exclusively in their own engine rebuilds for a long time.

IMS guardian just tells you you have a problem and your engine is already compromised. Justjames says it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

As with everything, do your own research. Take Internet opinions with a grain of salt unless you really think the person has knowledge and most of all weigh up the pros and cons vs your own situation. That includes my replies, I'm not an overtly mechanically minded person but I did want to understand what this IMS looked like and how it was installed, get onto LNs website if you haven't already, shows it all. I have only explained how I came to choose what I did.

Must say, I read all this and think I'm nuts for buying this car! But I love it.

[acid_rider]

Good People

 

what model/build year Cayman/Boxter does NOT have the IMS problem?

 

thanks

[Orion03]

2009 onwards A91 engine has no IMS.

 

from the wiki:

 

Porsche Cayman (987) engines

• 2007–2009 2.7 litre "M97" 245 hp flat-six (VarioCam Plus)
• (211 hp version available in some countries)
• Early 2006 3.4 litre "M96" 295 hp flat-six (VarioCam Plus)
• Late 2006–2009 3.4 litre "M97" 295 hp flat-six (VarioCam Plus)
• 2009- 2.9 litre 265 hp flat-six (VarioCam Plus)
• (211 hp version available in some countries)
• 2009- 3.4 litre "A91" 320 hp flat-six (VarioCam Plus and DFI)

[acid_rider]

thanks Orion03

 

just to clarify one point - the model-year 2010 is "A91" engine or model-year 2009 in "A91" engine ?

I see a few dealers advertising the 2009-2010 Cayman/Boxters, just need to establish which engines they have, IMS or no-IMS.

 

For example this one:

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-Cayman-2010/AGC-AD-15359336/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1

 

is this with-IMS engine i.e. potentially problem?

 

Thanks!

[Orion03]

I am no Cayman expert, but since it's the 2009 2.9L standard Cayman it'll have the A91 engine and be safe from IMS issues.

 

again from the wiki:

 

"

First generation (facelift)[edit]

A face-lifted version of the Porsche Cayman was introduced on 21 February 2009. The standard Cayman engine's displacement was increased from 2.7L to 2.9L, giving a 20 hp (15 kW) increase to 265 hp (198 kW), while the Cayman S gained direct injection and a 25 hp (19 kW) increase to 320 hp (239 kW). Also there was a new engine architecture employed which did away with the troublesome Intermediate Shaft, which proved to be a weak link in pre-2009 engines, the new engine nomenclature is 9A1. Both the Cayman and Cayman S maintain a 10 hp (7 kW) power advantage over their roadster sibling, the Boxster. On the front end, each has its own design for the front bumper. The front signal lamps are designed differently: while both use LED signal lamps, the Cayman’s LED are arranged like the face of dice while the Boxster gets a horizontal row of 4 LEDs. The Porsche Tiptronic S automatic gearbox was replaced by the 7-speed PDK dual clutch transmission for the new model. The PDK outperforms the manual transmission with a 0-60 mph time of 5.1 seconds versus 5.2 seconds for the manual. The PDK with the sport button option lowers the 0-60 mph time to 4.9 seconds.^[31] Also alimited slip differential is now a factory option.^[32]"

[acid_rider]

thanks!

[tazzieman]

Must say, I read all this and think I'm nuts for buying this car! But I love it.

Your completely sane compared to those poor deluded souls who buy landsharks 

[withers]

Your completely sane compared to those poor deluded souls who buy landsharks 

 

Whats a land shark? Land rover?

 

And whos the dude with the long hair on your bonnet in your new avatar?

[tazzieman]

Whats a land shark? Land rover?

 

And whos the dude with the long hair on your bonnet in your new avatar?

1. Porsche 928.

2. Bon Scott. As in the video I posted on the Bruce thread.

[Zelrik911]

i have read somewhere that its about 5%

 

Is 5% a large number?  that's up to you.

 

But in any case whatever the number is it was enough for a successful class action to be taken against Porsche USA.

 

mine's a 2007 Boxster and i probably won't get it done (of course that's my call / roll of the dice)

 

Hmmmm - I predict that the failure rate will be 50%.

 

This is based on a sample of 2 friends of mine who bought their Boxters new. They both drove them like sportscars, fast but not stupid.

First was a stockbroker, second was a successful barrister. Both Boxters had no expense spared.

 

The 'barrister car' was without incident and he moved onto other makes, but then bought a classic 911 as a toy because he enjoys the Porsche experience. The 'stockbroker car' blew up ( IMS ). But luckily for him, he was in the middle of negotiating purchase of a Turbo 911 and Porsche  honoured the trade in valuation that had been agreed on (even though the Boxter was practically worthless). he still has the 911.

 

OK very small sample but these are guys who have been my friends from childhood and drive as we all do, from that era. These Boxters were not kept in cotton-wool but driven nearly every day. Never in competition though.

 

Stories I hear about acquaintances, not close friends, who have/or had IMS cars is that the overall failure rate is very high (not just IMS but other very serious motor & transmission problems). Rumours have it that some cars have been crashed, 'stolen' or 'gone-for-a- swim' for insurance purposes.

 

But the irony is, nearly all ex Boxter owners are still Porsche enthusiasts; regardless.  As my son would saw - go figure!!

[BAFE]

granted i'm not sure you can get a smaller sample size to achieve a 50% result but i hear you.

 

just hope you are wrong 

[Mike D'Silva]

Until now, I had never thought about putting through an insurance claim in the event of an iMS failure...

but how??  You'd have to be lucky/unlucky for it to fail at just the right time at a place where no one could witness you push it into the river!

[mikefocke]

There are IMS failure statistics only for the second generation single bearing ((~'00-'04) cars and those are provided by Porsche in response to a lawsuit and can be googled/searched by including the terms "porsche ims settlement" in the request. IIRC, it is sightly less than 1% per car/year.  There are no known good stats for the dual row first generation bearing or the third generation larger single bearing. They are thought to be far more robust (more bearing load capability).

 

There have been many speculations as to cause for that specific bearing design and the bearing engineers end up with nothing that you can do to prevent random failures, an inadequate lubrication design and inadequate bearing surface just put it at risk. Changing your oil frequently (more frequently by far than Porsche suggests), using good oil and letting the engine get really hot (10 minutes after the water temperature guage shows its peak) are good for it. The suggestions are based only on the observations of Porsche mechanics who noted that cars whose owners used their cars that way seemed to experience fewer failures. Not sure how scientific that is though.

 

There must be a dozen kits now available using some combination of better materials in the bearing (more load bearing capability), better parts in the whole IMS assembly and/or better lubrication either by removing a seal and letting engine oil circulate (immerse, vapour and splash) or injecting oil under pressure to lube the bearing.

 

Some have a history of user installations, some a great story, some are well marketed, etc.  Some people are trying to "just buy a bearing". Some even have been around long enough and sold enough that they have a reasonable number of owner forum postings to support a notion that their claims of "better" may be valid.

 

I'll leave it to you to figure out what your risk tolerance is, how much you want to spend, who you trust to produce your better bearing and, perhaps most importantly, who you trust to do the install.

 

Trying to do an install after the IMS has failed and the engine has been filled with debris is a waste of time and money as the probability of failure is super high due to a piece of the old bearing eventually getting into the new one and creating a quick failure.

[acid_rider]

regarding last paragraph re "install after IMS has failed being a waste of time and money"

 

please explain this further to those of us who are not mechanically blessed - what else can you do if your IMS has failed?

buy a whole new engine?