996/7 IMS Failure

[Orion03]

Mine is a Sep 2005 build.... so I am not changing the IMS..... 

 

I think it's the later build with the larger single row bearing.

 

Yeah touch wood.

[Mike737]

When I got my IMS done there was no sign of metal filings in the shaft or any suggestion of the bearings starting to go. I was getting my engine dropped out as my AOS had given up on life so it was the perfect time to drop in the LN retrofit kit. That was at 87,000km on a late 2001 MY02 3.6. 

[Gregk]

Here is another good article from LN engineering....

http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/

This article contradicts alot of the other posts I've read about ims failure. In particular it states that the early 996's from 1997-199 are among the most reliable in terms of ims failure. As posted previously they have a less than 1% failure rate. I just had my clutch changed and elected to leave the bearing insitu. I can sleep soundly with those numbers :-D

Cheers,

Greg

[Mike737]

This article contradicts alot of the other posts I've read about ims failure. In particular it states that the early 996's from 1997-199 are among the most reliable in terms of ims failure.

 

I've read that as well. I once saw some statistics which showed gen 2 was the worst when comparing production and failure numbers. Again, just get the kit put in when the engine is out.

[Niko]

Here is another good article from LN engineering....

http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/

This article contradicts alot of the other posts I've read about ims failure. In particular it states that the early 996's from 1997-199 are among the most reliable in terms of ims failure. As posted previously they have a less than 1% failure rate. I just had my clutch changed and elected to leave the bearing insitu. I can sleep soundly with those numbers :-D

Cheers,

Greg

It is an interesting article Greg and well written and explained.  

 

As you say it does contradict other articles/posts on the problem.   Which particular post/article do you believe?

 

The thing that keeps coming back to me is that there is no 100% established reason for the bloody thing to go bang.  

 

Lots of theories as to why it may go bang ...but which one....

 

Going by that article you will be "pretty safe" with your decision of not getting one fitted.

 

I am certainly not knocking your decision.

 

I would however still recommend that anyone else going having a clutch swap or engine out repair

 

that they should definitely get it done.

 

After market P workshops are probably rubbing their hands together with all the nasty stories true or false re the IMS.

 

One other little point, is that if anyone is in the market for one of the designated problem models ,

 

and.... they have done their research

 

They would be asking if the IMS has been done.  

 

Might end up costing you a couple of grand drop in the price at re sale time,

 

whereas if you had it done earlier it wouldn't be a factor.   

[Gregk]

I agree Niko.

Potential buyers read alot online nowadays, and will be asking about IMS etc.

It was just so relieving to finally read something positive about the early 996's.

Hopefully more articles like these appear over time and slowly reduce peoples fears about them.

I know I've felt nothing but guilt and fear after buying my 996. Now finally I have something to smile about :-D

Cheers,

Greg

[Coastr]

For some, choosing to roll the dice and hope they do not experience a failure is the right thing to do. Odds are in your favor that you’ll never experience a failure. That is little consolation for those having experience a failure out of warranty. Others choose to purchase extended warranties or have some sort of preventative or proactive maintenance done to protect their investment. First and foremost, owners should continue to drive and enjoy their cars and not let fear dictate their actions or inactions. Being informed and aware is the first step to happy Porsche ownership.

 

This is well meaning but doesn't fit well with human psychology, which in the majority of places will pay more to avoid a potential failure than they will pay for a potential gain.    Probably self insurance of putting away $3000/yr into a special account is the best way - if it fails you get your new engine.  If it runs fine and then you sell it, you've got more cash to spend on your next car.  But most people don't have the ability to run a scheme like this.

 

However, internet hypocardria is a very real phenomena because almost zero people post into forums and say things like 'just completed another 15,000 trouble-free KMs on my 996.  In the old days you only heard about an engine failure if you happened to be chatting to someone who experienced it first hand or fixed many engines.    Those days didn't come with high-res pictures of shredded bearings (and broken head-studs!) to give owners nightmares, either.

 

Still...the idea of a nice 996 still appeals to me at some point.  Perhaps I will test-drive one, one day, just to see how much less hair-shirt they are compared to an older air-cooled car.

[IAM_911]

My 996 wss truble free for 66km and 10 years before I got it.

And now I'v had it for 2 years and 15km and no problems at all. What I changed thus far are normal service items. I did change the IMS and found all the grease in the baring was out. But thats good for a ten year old baring don't you think?

I will open up the engin again and inspect the IMS when it is a year old and have done over 10km.

[Steiny]

Hey AM

I've pm'ed you about the details of your IMS change.

 

thanks

[Gregk]

Hey IAM.

Sounds like you did the IMS job yourself ?

Big job to re check the grease isn't it? That means you have to lock all the cams , drop the transmissions etc?

Greg.

[IAM_911]

Hello Gregk,

Yes, did it my slef. And yes, was a reasonably big job. In the process of writing a thread about the experience.

The triger was the start of RMS leaking. Its was a case of "while i'm there". In 2013 I changed so many plasticy rubbery bits on the car. I guess the engineering rule of 10 year life span was poking its ugly head.

[IAM_911]

Here is another good article from LN engineering....

http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/

This article contradicts alot of the other posts I've read about ims failure. In particular it states that the early 996's from 1997-199 are among the most reliable in terms of ims failure. As posted previously they have a less than 1% failure rate. I just had my clutch changed and elected to leave the bearing insitu. I can sleep soundly with those numbers :-D

Cheers,

Greg

I am starting to think I am the only person critical of anything LN engineering publish for the obvious reasons.

All claims and numbers I came accross I was able to trace it back to LN engineering. LN never realy say where and how he cames up with these numbers and how statisticaly representative is his sample size.

I saw a table on LN website with numbers of total sales and total IMS failure in each year for the past 10 yeats. After some time checking, I can comfortably say the table was an LN concoction.

Yes IMS appears to be a real problem. But what dose a 1% or 10% failure rate means?

And what happens to the same rate when the baring ages? Wouldn't the rate rise and approaches 100% as time goes by?

Food for thoughts,

[Coastr]

Hello Gregk,

Yes, did it my slef. And yes, was a reasonably big job. In the process of writing a thread about the experience.

The triger was the start of RMS leaking. Its was a case of "while i'm there". In 2013 I changed so many plasticy rubbery bits on the car. I guess the engineering rule of 10 year life span was poking its ugly head.

 

The 10-year plastic lifespan is one of the biggest drawbacks of cars of the modern era.  I just went through the process of replacing all the windscreen washer plumbing on two BMWs - both failed almost 10 years to the day from date of manufacture - just gone brittle and hard with age.   Replumbing this is a nightmare as it snakes its way from underneath the guard, into the engine bay, under a bunch of seals and then up under the bonnet (more seals) and finally pointing at the driver.

 

Then there is the door sill covers...and the windscreen trim surrounds...and parts of the engine trim.  All on garaged, well serviced, relatively low mileage cars.  But the plastic hits an age mark and crumbles away.

 

Before that it was a VW Golf where all the gearshift linkages were plastic where the shift rods joined the gearbox.  10 years almost to the month since manufacture and they all self destructed one by one, leaving the car *always* in a compromised position either stuck in gear or stuck in neutral with a dead shift.   And the Golf also had multiple failures of the window regulators, also made of plastic, also dead after 10 years.

 

I'm starting to hanker after one of those 'classic not plastic' window stickers :-(

[Gregk]

Looking forward to the post on the IMS change IAM.

Funny, I got given a 15yo IMS from my local porsche specialist from a car with 300k's on the clock and it looked like new. No sign of the plastic degrading. My mechanic also said he is yet to see an IMS failure in 16 years of buisness from his workshop, although he has seen the aftermath from other Sydney shops.

Greg.

[TwoHeadsTas]

OK, does anybody have a scanned or electronic version of issue 69 of Total 911, as referred to right at the start of this thread?  Looks as though the only digital version of this is available on iTunes, but I don;t do the Apple thing at all.

 

thanks

 

Peter

[niacal4nia]

Every time someone mentions ims failure rate I mention cancer. You have a higher chance of getting cancer than ims failure. There are 2 types of Porsche owners, the rich and the DIY and the Porsche haters could never afford a Porsche so they keep bashing. No wonder every car companies compare their model to Porsches. The most wins at the 24 hour LeMans followed by Audi. I just hit 88000 miles on my 2002 996 with original clutch and ims. Did a oil filter analysis and found zero metal shaving.