Kris Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 Hi Guys I have been thinking on and off about removing the aircon from my 79SC for a while now. This would be to clean up the engine bay and let a bit more air in through the rear grille once the condenser is gone. If I do it, I would remove everything from the car, and plug the holes etc. I'm not 100% sure though as the previous owner spent a bit of cash on re-gassing it and a new compressor. This is the second summer I have had the car, and haven't wanted air con. I gave it a go today and it just blows warm air. Im just wondering if anyone else has done this job or would you just leave it in for the sake of completeness? Its not on my radar to try and make it work though, as I have heard they are mediocre at best. The car is a RHD converted Sporto so i'm not sure how concerned I should be about originality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 I would fix it myself. Originality aside - it's a lot p work to pull it out properly, might as well spend the time and effort getting it to work. A car with working air con is always worth more. Unless it's a track car might as well be comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 To make my AC work would have meant a new compressor and ancillaries and around 2k cash ; that's what a colleague spent and he did the work himself. Does it add 2k to the price? Maybe. But I went the other route as I don't get hot & bothered in summer heat here. As long as I get airflow , all good. I sawed through the hoses to make it easier to pull them through the body. I kept the aircon blower motor for some extra convection current "the office fan" And maybe I even notice the increased agility & handling from the added lightness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 You could get an upgrade kit from RetroAir (or other kit supplier). I have heard a lot of good reports about the RetroAir kit, so much so I am reinstalling my air con, that was removed by a PO, with an upgrade kit. http://www.retroair.com Also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au-yt Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 Id keep it but move the condensor to the front of the LH wheel ala 993? Umpgrading the compresor would help amd they are more effecient with superchill refridgerent. MTCW Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 Hi Guys I have been thinking on and off about removing the aircon from my 79SC for a while now. This would be to clean up the engine bay and let a bit more air in through the rear grille once the condenser is gone. If I do it, I would remove everything from the car, and plug the holes etc. I'm not 100% sure though as the previous owner spent a bit of cash on re-gassing it and a new compressor. This is the second summer I have had the car, and haven't wanted air con. I gave it a go today and it just blows warm air. Im just wondering if anyone else has done this job or would you just leave it in for the sake of completeness? Its not on my radar to try and make it work though, as I have heard they are mediocre at best. The car is a RHD converted Sporto so i'm not sure how concerned I should be about originality. I had the same dilemma for a while and after a re-gas it worked (ish) for about 12 months and now the gas has leaked out its back to how it was. I'm going to keep it and do some more work on it not for purist reasons just that I live in Qld and was better than nothing…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 the A/C kept making my car stall so i junked it. i don't use the car in traffic anyway so it was an easy choice. it's easier to pull it all out, than to put it back in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 I had the same dilemma for a while and after a re-gas it worked (ish) for about 12 months and now the gas has leaked out its back to how it was. I'm going to keep it and do some more work on it not for purist reasons just that I live in Qld and was better than nothing…. I have actually purchased gauges and am looking into hychill. That way I can just keep putting in more gas whenever it gets low. From my reading it is said that the original Porsche hoses intentionally leaked. This was because the worry back then was exploding systems from over pressure, so the hoses were made to leak at high pressure. No idea if it is true or not, but my receipt stack has lots of aircon re-gas top ups. Nobody cared about leaking r12 in the 70s and 80s so they just kept filling them up. Going with hychill means it can keep leaking out slowly and just top it up as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 Going with hychill means it can keep leaking out slowly and just top it up as needed. So I take it your not a member of the greenies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 So I take it your not a member of the greenies Ha definitely not....but that's not the point. Hychill is a hydrocarbon based gas - a mix of propane and butane. Hydrocarbons released to the atmosphere in small quantities don't do any harm. A lot of spray cans use hydrocarbon based propellants. So it can leak out of your car in small quantities and you're causing any problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 21December, 2014 Report Share Posted 21December, 2014 I suppose the argument is that if millions of cars are leaking a little bit each, then it becomes a problem. Why can't they design a simple blow off valve into a recirculating tank. Much like a radiator recirculating system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted 22December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 22December, 2014 it's easier to pull it all out, than to put it back in! That's probably the only thing holding me back! Once is gone it's gone, but I can't imagine ever wanting to spend money on it to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 22December, 2014 Report Share Posted 22December, 2014 Why can't they design a simple blow off valve into a recirculating tank. Much like a radiator recirculating system.Brian,Don't forget the pressure switch stops the system getting to that point. Also prevents the compressor being damaged from lack of gas (ie lubricant) too.Got your system in yet? I'm keen to see photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 I suppose the argument is that if millions of cars are leaking a little bit each, then it becomes a problem. Why can't they design a simple blow off valve into a recirculating tank. Much like a radiator recirculating system. Yes, in the US, and particularly california, the sheer number of vehicles adds up quickly. All of the petrol (gas) filling stations have rubber necks that seal the filler so you don't leak fumes into the air. It all adds up, and they do have significant air pollution problems in LA especially, but also in San Francisco. Most of the emissions regulations first come in California and spread from there to other places. When R12 was first used, it was considered an inert and harmless gas, and the systems were designed to leak gas rather than overpressure. Then CFCs were held responsible for ozone layer depletion, so it was phased out, and R134 was phased in. By that time, the technology had moved on and over-pressure switches were introduced rather than leaky hoses. As for the CFC thing, nobody ever explained how CFCs in the Northern Hemipshere caused problems in the South Pole, and the exact process was never understood apart from a basic cfc doesn't play well with ozone. And CFC production has ceased probably a decade ago, but the hole is still there and fluctuates a lot with each year. An observant cynic might say that maybe they had NFI at the time and changed an industry on scant evidence and lots of hype. A conspiracy theorist will tell you that it was because the patent on R12 was about to expire and something had to be done. I'm not really in either camp but the end result remains that old porsches leak refrigerant from their hoses, unless they're replaced with the newer barrier hoses. And if you still have the original hoses in there, you'll have to keep topping it up, whether you use R12, R134 or a replacement hydrocarbon based product. But I say that's still a better solution (regassing periodically) than pulling it all out, unless you live in a cold climate or are building a max attack club racer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 Hi Guys The car is a RHD converted Sporto so i'm not sure how concerned I should be about originality. Oh no !!! Delete this and deny all knowledge before the Sporto crowd find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 Oh no !!! Delete this and deny all knowledge before the Sporto crowd find out "Crowd" is what you get at a footy game, surely the Sporto contingent on here would only make up a trio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZ930 Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 "Crowd" is what you get at a footy game, surely the Sporto contingent on here would only make up a trio Trio ? It's growing !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 Kris - if you end up pulling your A/C, I'll buy it!!! My '78 doesn't have a/c and even though most people say it's just a placebo, I'll happily take it after driving around over the past couple of weeks. Was sweating like "(add inappropriate comment here)" before those SE QLD hail storms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 23December, 2014 Report Share Posted 23December, 2014 i'm going to do something like this good reading on this site - http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/ice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny3.0 Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 Russ, Dont do it. My C3 had factory air that was as handy as a hip pocket in a singlet. 2 years ago I replaced it with an upgrade kit from Retroair designed to run on R134. The same kit OZ930 ( Brian) is installing at present. The kit came with modern technology Evaperator and Condensor and Compressor plus an upgrade to the existing fan. This eliminates the original speed control dropping resisters set in the outlet to the vents plus new hoses. I used the original control switches. It all went back together in the same places as my original factory air. Its great. I put a thermometer in the output vent on the dash and got to minus 1 degree on a 38 degree day. I have it cycling at about 8 degrees vent temp with about a 30 % on duty cycle. I looked at the Griffiths setup but just could not bring myself to put "foreign bodys " in the wheel arch. You have a condensor trying to cool gas set next to an exhause that is very good at producing heat and It was much dearer than the retroair setup. I notice in your picture of the wheel arch the installed condensor is old technology and not very efficient. Retroair use a multiflow technoloy that gives you much more surface area in the same space. I am not using any condensor between the front wheels as some porsches do as the boot lid setup was efficient enough for my car. I would suggest the extra condensor in the front for a Turbo as the intercooler takes up some of the condensor space in the back. Rock Browning at retroair was great to deal with. I spoke to him a couple of time . His site explains the new design of condensor and evaperator and you can see why it is so efficient. I have no problems with this system and a very cool Porsche with the installation very similar to the original. Also there is a small mod you can do so your Fan will deliver air through your vents without the Air Conditioner being switched on. If you are interested let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 I'm interested in mod to keep the a/c fan blowing without the compressor couch kicking in ❄️Please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 I'm interested in mod to keep the a/c fan blowing without the compressor couch kicking in ❄️Please.... Green wire on the compressor, which controls the clutch. Unplug. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny3.0 Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 I will put the info together in the next couple of days and post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINGY Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 If you have an old car and are fixing/upgrading your air con don't bother wasting money on new rubber hoses. I suggested this to my air con mechanic and his comments were, "don't get sucked in to this idea", ok the old hoses are perforated but the old systems ran mineral oil as a lube for the compressor. This oil is also acts as the seal between the body of the compressor and the shaft to the clutch. The mineral oil that used to run through the system also coated the lines and also filled in the perforations in the rubber hoses, so your old hoses would more than likely be sealed by the old oil. If you are getting your old system going again I would suggest replacing the TX valve, as I had my system re-gassed last year and the TX valve was faulty and has caused a valve in the compressor to fail and the gas has slowly leaked out. What also causes your system to fail is not running the air con, so letting your car sit without driving for lengthy periods and not running A/C lets the oil dry out between the body of the compressor and the shaft, the oil acts as a seal here, and the gas will slowly leak out over time. This results in the A/C slowly failing over time, as the gas gets lower the less pressure in the system until finally the pressure valve doesn't detect enough pressure and the compressor won't kick in, it all goes downhill from here, atmosphere (water) now enters the system and wrecks the dryer as well, before you know it your up for a $1000 for a compressor re-build and a new dryer, don't replace the old and original TX valve and your up for another $600. Ask me how I know. If you want your A/C to work well use it as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 28December, 2014 Report Share Posted 28December, 2014 The previous owner of our SC had the aircon removed because it needed lots of $$$ spent to get it working. It hasn't bothered us not having it. Just don't use the car on really hot days. On our recent trip to Tasmania it was mid 30's on the way from Adelaide to Melbourne. Ac would have been nice, but it wasn't that unbearable. But if it was still in the car I would get it fixed myself. Having said that I'm thinking about getting some headers made which means I will ditch the heater (and wear a jumper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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