Mike-S Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 The term 'barn find' seems over used, so I chose warehouse instead seeing as how that's where it is! A couple of weeks ago I was asked to go and look at a load of classic British cars by the owners family, the building they're in has been sold and all the cars need selling. In a corner, sat under a couple of sheets I noticed a familiar whale tail sticking out so asked what the story was there, yes for the right money it was for sale as well. It's been dry stored for over 20 years, very dusty but straight. It's an 87 Targa in silver, 3 owners, Aus delivered with 118k on the clock. Current owner never registered it after buying from NSW in 1994, not long after it's last service at Hamiltons at 104k, he used it occasionally a few times a year on his trade plates. Last time he went to use it 2 years ago it wouldn't start, so he covered it back up and left it. I've been offered it, the question now is what's it really worth and I'm struggling with that. I haven't managed a detailed inspection really, inside it's dusty but other than a sagging lining on the targa top it seems fine. Exterior wise, the bonnet needs painting as the paint's crazed (current owner did it) but without taking jacks and going underneath it I don't know what it's like, other than dirty as it came from the country. Tyres are rooted, all pretty much half flat but they need changing anyway as the owner says they were on it when he bought it in 94....it hasn't been started for at least 2 years, albeit the owner reckons he's cranked it over 'recently'. Could be true, could be cobblers, I don't know. Owner says he'll roadworthy and register it. I've suggested that after 2 years of not being started, he doesn't do anything to try, for fear of damaging the engine as I know he'll just stick a booster battery on, lob some fresh fuel in the tank and hit the key. Am I being too cautious here or what ? To my mind as a minimum it should have the plugs pulled out, some oil sprayed in the bores, an oil change and the fuel system cleaned out before even trying. Once it runs then see what else is knackered. I'm thinking brake calipers, plenty of hoses and maybe the suspension. In short, a fairly expensive exercise before it's really roadworthy. Value as it stands now? Anyone prepared to make a good guess? He's been told minimum of $50k by someone in Sydney, I'm saying he's dreaming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f40-r Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 Sounds a little too much for a car that would need possibly $15k if not more and a lot of time to bring it back up to standards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 A quick look online and these seem to be going for $30,000 - $50,000, in some kind of working order, so your have to think a mint condition can't be much more than $60k -$65k as targas will be less desirable. Depends how brave or mechanically competent you are, but I would be factoring in at least $6-$12k of immediate costs to get the thing running, and if there is anything major - $30k+. Respray - $15k-$25k depending on who you talk to. Get a PPI if you can. A tow and inspection might be $1200 worth spending if you are keen, but probably don't waste your money if you think the seller just has unrealistic expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 Your caution is warranted in the restart - while it's likely and willing, it's not so much it' hadn't been started for two years but hasn't been serviced since 1994. What's it worth ? What would you be prepared to take out of the bank now today if similar car albeit roadworthy and running and looking peachy hit carsales? Is this even the model you want? If so offer them a chunk less cash than what this would normally get on market, and that would reasonably cover your expenses incl a contingency. Start doing your recommission costs budget. Google is your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 8June, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 It's definitely buyer beware on this one, the owner is unrealistic on value for every car in the warehouse with some daft reasoning behind his logic. Getting it to a ppi is near on impossible right now but I'm working on it. I'd thought (by looking on carsales / gumtree etc) that it's worth about $40k as a healthy driver, as has been mentioned it's a Targa therefore not worth as much. His family tell me they're thinking of sending it to Sydney to consign with someone they've spoken to there (but won't say who that is), which is where this notion of it being worth $50k as it stands has come from. It's not worth putting more than $10k into after purchase that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 if it is straight and complete then I would offer 30-35k and see what happens. By complete - I mean all interior there and fuchs wheels in place etc etc. Someone will have told him porsches are worth 50k and he'll think he can get that. Your offer might have to sit on the shelf a bit. He will not get $50k. You may not have to repaint the entire car to get the bonnet fixed up. Do the numbers like this as a bare minimum: - 4x tyres - new set of discs and pads and probably hoses - figure and engine drop and replace with various parts replaced (see Caledonians thread for an idea of how much this costs doing the work yourself and not actually doing any major replacements) - fuel filter, oil change & valve adjust and new plugs You may need to drop and clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel lines and more. Could be a fun project with a nice car as a result (kms are low). Could be a nightmare. You want to get in low so even if problems arise you've still got some headroom to get out square if you lose interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 'Well my mate/neighbour/car salesman/bloke up the road says its worth $50k'! Dreaming mate. Its been neglected and needs work that can be a money pit if its toast. Offer him something well under $50k that you would be happy to pay, taking into account the potential $20k or more if it needs a rebuild and hidden rust problems. If it was an early car, yeah, snap it up, but I would tread very carefully and have an inspection done by someone reputable. Maybe take some evidence of what good cars are getting in the market and go from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 He will not get $50k. He most certainly will if it's advertised as a "barn find" and patinated accordingly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 8June, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 if it is straight and complete then I would offer 30-35k and see what happens. By complete - I mean all interior there and fuchs wheels in place etc etc. Someone will have told him porsches are worth 50k and he'll think he can get that. Your offer might have to sit on the shelf a bit. He will not get $50k. You may not have to repaint the entire car to get the bonnet fixed up. Do the numbers like this as a bare minimum: - 4x tyres - new set of discs and pads and probably hoses - figure and engine drop and replace with various parts replaced (see Caledonians thread for an idea of how much this costs doing the work yourself and not actually doing any major replacements) - fuel filter, oil change & valve adjust and new plugs You may need to drop and clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel lines and more. Could be a fun project with a nice car as a result (kms are low). Could be a nightmare. You want to get in low so even if problems arise you've still got some headroom to get out square if you lose interest. Basically this is exactly where I'm at. I offered him $35k with everything you say (except the engine drop) as my thoughts on what to do with it. I wouldn't paint the whole car, just the bonnet as everything else is ok. It's a user, despite the low km's so I'm treating it as that unless proven otherwise, everything is there and complete, just neglected in terms of having not been used hence only looking at painting the bonnet as there's simply no justification on doing the rest of it. Currently he's saying $40k is his minimum price. I'm happy to leave my offer on the table and have told both him and his family that's the case. They tell me someone else is interested as well, but so be it. I'd send it to a specialist to sort the engine as I'm not familiar with them, but everything else I'd happily deal with myself, I've restored a few cars in my time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 8June, 2015 Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 Yeah, no doubt there is someone around with $$$ in front of their eyes thinking they can turn a quick profit. If you've made a firm offer and have told them you have the cash (i.e., no need to check with bank/mrs/deity) then they can come back to you. I'd probably put a sunset on that offer - tell them you're looking at other cars and hope to make a decision soon which to buy. Otherwise they might try and string you out for 6 months. By then the bubble will have burst and we'll be trading mint 3.2s for 15k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 8June, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8June, 2015 Yeah, cash is sitting there waiting for the right car and they know I'm actively looking, so if something else comes up at that price level I'd leave this one alone, I'm not wedded to it. I'd prefer a coupe (wouldn't everyone it seems) but want something I can use rather than worry about, so when I saw this car it fitted that bill. From a value perspective I'd set my expectation of it being a targa, the coupes are out of my reach right now unless I go for a 996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBRUT Posted 9June, 2015 Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 Add in the cost of spraying a flat deck lid while you're there. Targa's look much much better without a whale tail. Disclosure - I really like targas... I tipped off a mate about a silver over blue 3.2 targa last year and he loves it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 9June, 2015 Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 40K if its gets a clean bill health through a PPI been done - less than 35k based then on the black n white of the PPI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 9June, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 Add in the cost of spraying a flat deck lid while you're there. Targa's look much much better without a whale tail. Disclosure - I really like targas... I tipped off a mate about a silver over blue 3.2 targa last year and he loves it! Nah, I quite like the whale tail so I'd leave it on. I'm ok with the targa as well, give me the option of open top motoring any day (used to own a VX220 back in the day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamr Posted 9June, 2015 Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 The biggest problem you will face is letting your heart rule your head ..... It's all well and good to tell the story of your car being a barn find, but the story can be told in one of two ways .... with a big smile or with tears welling in your eyes .... In other words, you got it for the right price and even with the cost of repairs / tidy up, it was worth it (financially) ...... or you bought with your heart, paid too much and then had the cost of repairs / tidy up, and it kills you to tell the story. Unfortunately, in this case, you need to buy with your head ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 9June, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 Yep, good advice. This one should it happen would be purely a head only purchase, I'm not prepared to pump a bucketload of cash into an old dog when it wouldn't be worth it in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 9June, 2015 Report Share Posted 9June, 2015 buy one that works for half price http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/pearsall/cars-vans-utes/1987-porsche-911-sports-targa-best-offer-over-25k/1080633609 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 8August, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 8August, 2015 Picked the car up today. Now the fun begins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrera28 Posted 8August, 2015 Report Share Posted 8August, 2015 Picked the car up today. Now the fun begins....Congratulations!! Time to start a build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 8August, 2015 Report Share Posted 8August, 2015 did you cave in to the 40?i reckon its worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Speedway Posted 8August, 2015 Report Share Posted 8August, 2015 The best way of dealing with "My mate tells me it's worth........"Don't get emotional. Decide what you want to spend. Get a bank cheque for that amount and hand it to them. Either of you can tear it up.Nothing is worth anything until somebody hands you money. If they say it's worth more, ask them to prove it by showing you a bigger cheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 9August, 2015 Report Share Posted 9August, 2015 Photos or it didn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 9August, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 9August, 2015 did you cave in to the 40?i reckon its worth it. We met in the middle, I'm happy with that.I spent a Saturday morning with him trying to start it up, with the agreement if it fired and ran ok he'd put a RWC on it and I'd give him the $40k. Whether the alarm system has immobilised it or what I'm not sure, but it wouldn't go. Spun over fine and built oil pressure in seconds, but no attempt at firing. Could be fuel pump, injectors, no spark, combination of the lot, who knows. I've taken it to a friend's garage in Wantirna (European car specialist and also a 911 owner) with the intent to have him get it running, his first job is to remove the alarm system as there are no remotes for it and I've no idea how old it is, so to eliminate it as a problem source it's coming out. Then it's drain the fuel, check the pump / filters / injectors / sparks / drop the oil / brake & clutch fluid etc. Once it's running we can then assess everything else and work from there. I have no intention of pouring money into it, once it's running I'll sort the rest myself at home, but first off it needs to work. Surprisingly, all the electrics work, windows, lights etc and when I checked them all I realised it's only done 113k km, not 118 as I first thought. On getting the paperwork from him yesterday, he handed over the last NSW registration certificate indicating it was last rego'd until August 1992 and serviced at Hamiltons in July 92 with 105k on the clock. 8000km in 23 years. I really have no idea when it last ran, Ted kept changing his mind (he's into his 70's) alternating between 2 and 3 Christmases ago, but safe to say it's a number of years.I'll post some photos up later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-S Posted 9August, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 9August, 2015 Photos or it didn't happenThat's me on the right, Ted wanted a photo of him and his Porsche as it left for a new home. its now sat in a friends garage in Wantirna. Needing more than just a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 9August, 2015 Report Share Posted 9August, 2015 love it.Great find. I reckon it will be sorted easily enough. If not, I will happily buy it from you.I'd love a silver Targa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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