944 sale price

[Plugger2]

 Personally nothing beats a bad ass 80s design in the 944, but there must be a point where people go for the boxer instead. 

I could never go the Boxter....

There is one other important difference between Boxsters and 944s, Boxsters are still depreciating, whereas 944s (actually all pre-1996 P-cars) are now appreciating.

That may not matter to everyone, but it further segments the Porsche market into pre- and post-1996 sub-markets. So a $30K Boxster is a somewhat different proposition to a $30K 944, even if you really liked Boxsters.

[PomBstard]

In offering comparison to both Ford and Ferrari I was offering a view that Pcars weren't disassociated from the rest of the market on their own. But that's for another thread.

To answer your question, by way of a chance conversation, I bought a manual 928S4 about 6 months ago for less than $30k because the pool of 944S2s had disappeared. If this particular car hadn't come along when it did, I'd have probably bought an E36 M3 as I need rear seats. If not the rear seats, then a Boxster might have been on the list.

I think I got there.

[sandy468]

I thrash the shit outta my missus' standard  07 boxster S 3.4 sports chrono with a factory sports exhaust and it does absolutely anything in a straight line or around tight corners way better than a standard 930! Serviced every 20000ks (cost $800 minor service then next 20000ks $1500 major service) and reliable as hell and have never had any issues and it's done 150000ks. What you save in lack of repairs and maintenance $$$$$ compared to a 944 sure as hell covers any depreciation. Worth about 35K now and was probably about 45K 2 years back and will probably be about 25K bottoming out in about 5 years time. I've driven a 944 manual plenty of times and not impressed with the performance - sure it has an old school feel (and I can appreciate that) and that is nice (if you like loose gear changes and old handling and braking) but it really doesn't do anything for me ---- the main thing seat of the pants, too damn slow!

[Plugger2]

I thrash the shit outta my missus' standard  07 boxster S 3.4 sports chrono with a factory sports exhaust and it does absolutely anything in a straight line or around tight corners way better than a standard 930! Serviced every 20000ks (cost $800 minor service then next 20000ks $1500 major service) and reliable as hell and have never had any issues and it's done 150000ks. What you save in lack of repairs and maintenance $$$$$ compared to a 944 sure as hell covers any depreciation. Worth about 35K now and was probably about 45K 2 years back and will probably be about 25K bottoming out in about 5 years time. I've driven a 944 manual plenty of times and not impressed with the performance - sure it has an old school feel (and I can appreciate that) and that is nice (if you like loose gear changes and old handling and braking) but it really doesn't do anything for me ---- the main thing seat of the pants, too damn slow!

Well, my S2 "minor services" cost < $100, since I change the oil and filter myself. Repairs and maintenance on a 944 is actually very inexpensive if you do it yourself. And because they are so easy to work on, it's much more feasible to do yourself than on a mid-engined car. So, no, sorry, a depreciating Boxster is going to be much more expensive overall than an appreciating 944, unless you absolutely can't or won't do any work yourself. Even then, if you buy a well-maintained 944 in the first place (important proviso), maintenance and repairs tend to be pretty nominal. 

You've already lost $10K in value in two years? And you see it bottoming out at $25K in five years? Maybe. I haven't got a crystal ball, but sounds a bit optimistic to me. But the way they are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see them down to $25 within two years, and perhaps further after that... time will tell.

As for the performance, from what you say, I strongly suspect you haven't driven a Turbo or S2! In any case, the gear changes are certainly not "loose", and with it's 50/50 weight distribution, the 944's braking and handling characteristics are legendary.

And finally, they simply *look* way cooler than Boxsters.

(I think what we have proven here is that there probably isn't much cross-over after all between the Boxster and 944 markets!)

[TINGY]

Sandy it's pretty hard to compare a mid 80's 944 to a mid 2000 Boxster with 2 extra cylinders. Both great drives in their own right in the cold light of day it's really chalk and cheese taking into consideration the tech advances embellished on the Boxster.

Yeah the N/A 944 is not a quick car but still a good drive and can be enjoyed at 10 tenths and does handle pretty well, extremely well compared to a lot of other cars.

The S2 and the Turbo is a different drive again, you need to try one.

[tazzieman]

At the end of the day , no hairdresser ever bought a 944 

[Plugger2]

 and does handle pretty well, extremely well compared to a lot of other cars.

The word you are looking for is "legendary".

(Particularly if you update the 1980's suspension tech with something modern like a set of KW V3 coilovers... PASM eat your heart out!)

 

Edited 7February, 2017 by Plugger2

[TINGY]

The word you are looking for is "legendary".

 

My Turbo handles "legendary", my N/A handled very,very well

[cyberpunky]

Having driven a Boxster, an S2 and my 952, all are great cars and while the Boxster was fun and technically ticks all the boxes, to me it lacked the soul the other 2 have in bucket loads. That connection with the road surface seemed dulled by comparison. I loved the flat 6 sound, and acceleration was good(not turbo good but still nice), and it braked and turned great, I just didn't get the same connection the 944's gave me. The 944's both feel more analogue, and direct.

I prefer the boost rush of my turbo over the s2's solid low down torque, but really only having owned rotaries and motor bikes, I love a stupid fast top end rush. It is not for every one and the S2 is still a fast car, as is the Boxster. Horses for courses and all good in their own way

[tazzieman]

Drive a 944 at 80km/hr and make a severe hard right turn. Do the same in a 930 and get the bucket ready!

[sandy468]

 

So I'm thinking of what $30K might buy you as a P-car -- 944 or another model. How does the $30K "S" stack up against other Porsches? Would you, for example, rather a Boxster? Or a 928 or 924?

Not that many P-cars you can still buy for $30K -- at least not good ones.

 

Exactly. 

At what point do people start looking at the Boxter instead of the 944?

The 944 was once the poor man's Porsche, as was the Boxter. 

Personally nothing beats a bad ass 80s design in the 944, but there must be a point where people go for the boxer instead. 

I could never go the Boxter....

Tingy I was responding to exactly that, the 2 posts above, asking to compare $30000 Pcars. So I compared them. A standard 944 S  to a standard Boxster S. I'll answer the question of comparison again, Sure the 944 feels nostalgic as it should .... if you're a driver and want seat of the pants fun there is not too much of a comparison, the boxster S will blow the 944 S out of the water under any conditions...I've driven a 944 S, have you driven a 3.4 boxter s with chrono?  And Plugger, What does any type of major service cost you, 944 parts cost the same as Boxster parts....and i assume your servicing is every 10000ks or yearly? Almost all people these days don't do the servicing or mechanical repairs themselves, most don't have the knowledge, skill or time. And if an 07 3.4 S Boxster is 25K in two years time that follows on that same for same an 05/06 3.2 S will be about 20k and follows on that a same for same 02/03 3.2 S will be about $15k and they will have all just about bottomed out in price for good examples. And in 2 years your 944 would be about low to mid 30's? Even more compelling then to by a Boxster S at about half the price of your 944 

At the end of the day , no hairdresser ever bought a 944 

Yes they did

[TINGY]

I'll read the thread back a little further next time

 

Sure the 944 feels nostalgic as it should .... if you're a driver and want seat of the pants fun there is not too much of a comparison, the boxster S will blow the 944 S out of the water under any conditions...

Of course it will it's got almost double the power.

 

[Plugger2]

 And Plugger, What does any type of major service cost you, 944 parts cost the same as Boxster parts....and i assume your servicing is every 10000ks or yearly? Almost all people these days don't do the servicing or mechanical repairs themselves, most don't have the knowledge, skill or time.

The schedule is: "Minor" service (basically, oil +filter change) every 20,000kms for the S2 (I do every 10,000kms, just because that's the Turbo schedule). Under $100 in parts. Couple of hours of your time if not rushing.

"Major" service (basically, timing belt and balance belt) every 80,000kms, or 3 years, whichever comes first. Under $100 in parts. A weekend of your time at a leisurely pace, a Saturday in the garage if pushing to get it done.

Every 2nd major service, also do waterpump and rollers. Under $300 parts. No significant additional time, since most of the work is disassemblt/reassembly to get at the belts, rollers and waterpump on the front of the engine. Say an extra two hours.

Also, on 16v cars: Every 180,000kms, change cam chains tensioner pad. Under $50 part. Can't honestly remember how long this took to replace, but it wasn't a big job. A Saturday afternoon, probably (mostly reading instructions).

Every couple of years I'll change the brake fluid. $20 + an afternoon. Brake pads replaced when required. Under $200 plus an afternoon.

That's regular scheduled maintenance. For repairs outside of that, I just checked and total cost of parts was $770 and three weekends of time over the last 12 months. And that was a relatively expensive year for repairs!

If I had to pay people to do the above (except for aircon servicing), I probably wouldn't bother owning a Porsche. In fact, I probably wouldn't own any car -- I'd just take Ubers! One thing that makes 944 ownership so attractive to me is that they are well-designed and easy to work on, and can be kept in top condition with relatively little $$$. *If* you are willing to do a bit of work yourself!

[Plugger2]

Even more compelling then to by a Boxster S at about half the price of your 944 

Yeah, but it'd still be a Boxster.

(Actually I just realised why you've got the glasses, nose and moustache disguise on your avatar -- that's what you wear when take your wife's Boxster out for a drive, right? )

Edited 7February, 2017 by Plugger2

[sandy468]

Yeah, but it'd still be a Boxster.

(Actually I just realised why you've got the glasses, nose and moustache disguise on your avatar -- that's what you wear when take your wife's Boxster out for a drive, right? )

Hahahahah yep so no other alpha males can recognise me! Also my Shock Mansion cap on backwards so the hipsters know I mean business haha. Seriously, I'm in no way a 944 hater, I really like them, love the look, and had a really good shot at buying a reasonable one a few years back but myself and the seller just fell short on the negotiation. and I realised I'd have more fun stealing my missus car midweek for some "errands" and every weekend for an SMT thrash. Actually just thinking of it, I think the real danger to a 944 appreciating a lot and the real choice to buy is the Cayman. Has none of the hairdresser syndrome of the Coxster and a good 06 3.4 S manual can be had for $45K frequently , even been a reasonable red one on CS for 3 months at 41k (plus neg means mid to high 30's I guess). Now extrapolate the earlier theory of 2 years time when an 07 3.4 Coxster S has devalued to $25k and a 944 S is low to mid 30's. When the boxsters keep depreciating they drag the Crocs with them so stands to reason that a Cayman S  will be around 35K maybe and a standard 2.7 Cayman high 20's to $30k. That is a real choice for any S2 manual 944 buyers of where to spend their comparable cashola

[tazzieman]

 

Yes they did

His wife bought that one. he bought 

Because hairdresser's tend not to be shrinking violets!

[ANF]

November 2016 GT Porsche mag did just that, compared a Boxster and 944 of the same value, each to their own....

If we halve the $30k to $15k what would you buy then? Yes it is the most likely going to be the "base" 2.5 Boxster, but I think I would take that over a $15k 944 as all you can get for $15k in 944 land is an auto.... and the Boxster is most likely nearing the bottom of it's depreciation curve (and the first Boxster's in years to come will be sought after....I think), the Boxster is now the entry level second hand Porsche (especially if you want a manual....)!

[tazzieman]

You can't do this in a 944

[sandy468]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Superb-condition-manual-1983-Porsche-944-2-5l-Coupe-/162383174505?lgeo=1&vectorid=229515&rmvSB=true&affiliate.trackingId=5336652905&affiliate.networkId=9

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172511937378?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[LeeM]

 I love 944's, though if I had to make the choice between a mint $40k 944 or a $40k Cayman S, the 944 owner wouldn't be getting my money. 

  It all depends what floats ya boat I s'pose. If you're happy dropping some serious coin a 944, then that's great 

 

 

[88mph]

Gone by end of day?

 

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-944-1989/OAG-AD-14314156

 

 

[michel]

 

If we halve the $30k to $15k what would you buy then?

924 , tatty 914 ... 

[JLD]

A friend has an Exige - I know it's a different beast to a $30k 944, but, what fun!! Last time I looked Maserati 3200s were close to $30k...

You can get a Maserati Coupe for low $30ks, a vast improvement over the 3200 with the much better Ferrari engine and gearbox. Don't be suckered in by those beautiful 'boomerang' tail lights

[Jason E]

Wow, God I'd buy this in a heartbeat at that price if I didn't have mine.

 

[tazzieman]

I'll bet a Maser is cheap to run ;<) DIY on driveway?