996.1 or 997.1 GT3 CS - changing hands for $ ??

[356993???]

Interested to know what $ 996.1 or 997.1 GT3CS are actually changing hands for this year? I thought a 996.1 would start with very low 1's, and also 997.1 from the mid 1's ?? Is this realistic? ( I know car's advertised don't appear in these ranges..)

[spiller]

Those were the prices in late 2014. 996.1 now 130-160 and 997.1 170-200.

[edgy]

Those were the prices in late 2014. 996.1 now 130-160 and 997.1 170-200.

I'd say your a little low on the 7.1, 200 is about the low point on those cars now. 

I'd also say you could be a fair bit higher on your upper end for the 6.1 too if it's the right example. But your in the zone, generally speaking. ☺️

 

 

 

[spiller]

I'd say your a little low on the 7.1, 200 is about the low point on those cars now. 

I'd also say you could be a fair bit higher on your upper end for the 6.1 too if it's the right example. But your in the zone, generally speaking. ☺️

 

 

 

Was just going by those on carsales that have sat for a while at over 200K. Admitedly not many 7 CS cars have been sold recently that I've seen?

[edgy]

Was just going by those on carsales that have sat for a while at over 200K. Admitedly not many 7 CS cars have been sold recently that I've seen?

last CS was silver PCCB car, $225k 

there is one down at PCSS now, white, low kms $249k

[356993???]

My understanding is the (great looking) and low km silver 997.1 CS with ceramics in WA sold with a number starting with 1, not 2...

[hugh]

Are you buying or selling? Answers may differ depending on this. 

[edgy]

My understanding is the (great looking) and low km silver 997.1 CS with ceramics in WA sold with a number starting with 1, not 2...

I don't know what it sold for, just the list price. 

I think a mate of @symsy bought it? 

If that is true, that's a bargain 

[hugh]

Know the car & know who bought it, no idea on price though. Symsy is your man though, dreamy fellow that guy. 

[spiller]

Silver (non CS) 997.1 in SA just sold after being listed at 199K for quite some time. Yellow 996.2 CS in SA sold following price drop to 140K after sitting for months at 150ish (although it was modified). GT3 market has definitely softened a bit from mid to late 2015 but still seemingly strong by historic standards! These cars all still represent exceptional value given what a new one costs.

[edgy]

Silver (non CS) 997.1 in SA just sold after being listed at 199K for quite some time. Yellow 996.2 CS in SA sold following price drop to 140K after sitting for months at 150ish (although it was modified). GT3 market has definitely softened a bit from mid to late 2015 but still seemingly strong by historic standards! These cars all still represent exceptional value given what a new one costs.

I guess the question on most of our lips is; "when will 991 GT3's be $150k?" 

I will 110% buy one if they do...but for reasons beyond my control, I can't see it happening anytime soon! 

[spiller]

I guess the question on most of our lips is; "when will 991 GT3's be $150k?" 

I will 110% buy one if they do...but for reasons beyond my control, I can't see it happening anytime soon! 

I have asked myself that question many times. It's hard to believe they ever will but with the dodgy engines and then being PDK only they may fall out of favour? I'll keep dreaming 

[boxster]

Well guys I am the one who has the GT3 Clubsport for sale at 195k. Just to let you know the market is still strong for the right car with a genuine buyer not tyre kickers. I have had some interesting offers ie 22k Ferrari plus a wad of cash another was a 964 plus a wad of cash thus far not interested as I need the garage space not another car. If I don't see the money I want then it might be stored. Better long term investment than having money in the bank. As some of the guys in PCV know it is the best around and I have only done 300klms in it in 16mths.

 

[symsy]

Hugh re the Silver car...

Its not fair to kiss and tell about the WA car … yes I do know who bought the car and he did so almost the next morning after, after I shared ts quality.  There was also a price variation that I will say…..  additionally  I will say this .. I know two sub 2's sales in very recent times 997 GT3 similar cars to the WA car , except PCCB not on one but they again pearls of cars.  I also know a GT3 991 sub 320...

Im kinda kicking myself I didnt snatch the 991 in Agate and ocassionally toss and turn on the WA car at night …but its at a good home ..

They are out there , that not saying that you shouldn't pay more .. lets say .. I think some can be squashed 10-15%

There a shit load of RS's heading inbound my call is for that reason alone 991 GT3 will struggle for a while..  Awesome cars but.  I think there may also be some 997 Stock

It very hard with people still trying to recover their line items and build spec/ extras costs at the moment in the 991 cars and thus causing the market to have a wide spread..

Like the earlier 996's and 997.1 in the end it ends up in my own view with their being almost a minimal expectation and occasionaly people pay for a few extras but prices normalise.

The same secenario is happening in the DB9/DBS world in the Aston arena with the new model heading inbound ..  Quite a common phenomena 

I still think a 997.2 and or maybe a 991 will end up at my house .. I wish I could say it would be and RS but really , I thinks the variance for an RS in the 996 and 997 arena is just way to high over a standard model for the mods added..  I personally feel the prices areway inflated.. 500k for  997.2 RS ..Hmm

Whats your views gang?

 

[SimonN]

symsy

I usually get flamed for my views of the GT3/RS market being over inflated and unsustainable, but here goes anyway.

I see a number of challenges in understanding the market for these cars. Excuse the sweeping generalisation, but back in the day, most of the "sports" models we now consider really collectable came into being because of racing and the road cars were pretty close to the race cars. Think of cars like the 74RS, 964RS and 993RS. The GT3 and RS's came about as a marketing exercise. That isn't a criticism of the cars. It's just a fact. Now we see a regular roll out of GT3 and RS's, each being updated not in response to a racing need but in response to a marketing plan. We have effectively seen the GT3's available (with some short breaks) for the best part of 17 years and you can bet that will continue. Therefore, compared with many previous Porsches, we are seeing a whole new market dynamic. The other thing that is very different is that the values of these cars have never declined to the point that "similar" cars did in the past. So what is going on?

I believe that the price performance of the older cars has been the big factor and I know I was nearly guilty of it myself. 3-4 years ago, I had assumed that I would sell my 964RS and buy a devalued 996 or 997 GT3RS and then ride that wave over, say, a 10 year period. I believe that many have been jumping into the market on an assumption that these GT3's are going to do what the older models did. Worse, because of the way that the models have rolled out on a regular basis, there has become a logic that if a 996 is worth x, the 996.2 is worth x+ while the 997 is worth x++, because they were better/newer cars. In short, some of these cars never went through their depreciation cycles and IMO, they aren't rare enough to do that. Maybe the 996 GT3RS and 997 GT3RS4.0 are getting to that rare enough status, but as I see it, there are alternative cars and you know something else is going to come along and replace it.

So IMO, people jumped on a bandwagon and the prices got pushed to silly levels. I honestly cannot see how a 5 year old 997 RS can be worth more than a new, better current RS. It seems that some are paying for collectable status before the cars really become collectable.

For me, the GT3 and RS market feels like parts of the property market - in boom times they race ahead, but if we hit an economic slowdown, I think we will see prices drop pretty fast. It feels exactly like the Ferrari market towards the end of the 1980's. Sure, all collectables will drop, but my money says that the true old classics will fair better than these modern cars.

Of course, WTF do I know. I personally think it all went down hill when the bean counters and marketing men took over and we got the 996. Before, decisions were made based on passion. Now car development is driven by something very different and we are being told what products we should like. We are being "played" by the marketing men, although, thankfully, it does occasionally produce something truly remarkable (991R). This maybe this is a whole new market dynamic that i will never understand. All i know is that i wouldn't put my money into one of these cars at the moment, although I think those who got in early will be very happy with their position, because they don't really have a downside. Or maybe I am just a sore loser for missing the boat

[spiller]

Simon, I agree with what you are saying. The GT3 cars don't have and never will have the "pedigree" of the old RS cars, but the watering down of that really occurred mostly with the 991 generation where the car now shares very little with the cup cars. The 996s and 997s still shared vital components with cup cars which gives collectors that racing link you are talking about. Either way, IMO this recent madness is more to do with no more manuals and Mezgers than racing pedigree, but now that Porsche have announced a manual in the 991.2 GT3, what does the future hold for GT3s? What does that mean for 991.1? What does that mean for future RS models which Porsche has said will be PDK only?

Interesting times ahead for sure.

[hugh]

I tend to agree, carrera used to mean more than it does now and I fear that 'RS' is starting to fall victim to the same fate - don't get me started on 'R' branding, I'm just waiting for the 991 'ST'.................... Maybe a 'STR' or 'Outlaw' maybe on the cards.......who knows what those clever peeps at Porscha are up too. 

One thing that remains that if you want to go fast, properly fast, 'GT#' Porsche's is where its at, in whatever shape or form. That will always give them appeal, nostalgia aside. 

[SimonN]

The 996s and 997s still shared vital components with cup cars which gives collectors that racing link you are talking about. 

Interesting times ahead for sure.

This is where I disagree. I have stated this a few times in the past, but with the 74RS, 964RS and 993RS, you could take the clubsport version and compete on very close terms with the race cars, because they were the race cars. And the only difference between a 964RS and a 964RS Clubsport (N/GT) is the layer of carpet, a roll cage and different seat material. Even the top of the race tree, the Cup cars, were only a fraction quicker than these cars. There was a case of a 92 Cup car that was written off in practice and they rebuilt it with a road going 964RS overnight. You can't do that with a GT3RS.

[KGB]

That's not really a fair comparison, as race car tech and classes have evolved to be even more specialist and specific over the 993 to 991 years, and a reverse engineered current category race car would make a way too extreme road car.

[edgy]

I can't agree with your logic there Simon ^^ 

Spiller is right, the 996 & 997 road and cup are very similar at core.. I think what is different now is the many levels at which you can participate!

Hell, a Cup R, GT3-R & RSR are drastically different again even to the cup car. 

Porsche simply knows how to do one thing most manufacturers can't do, make money on their motorsport customers. It really comes down to opening market segments that didn't previously exists, it wasn't just a case of watering down the kool aid. 

 

[spiller]

This is where I disagree. I have stated this a few times in the past, but with the 74RS, 964RS and 993RS, you could take the clubsport version and compete on very close terms with the race cars, because they were the race cars. And the only difference between a 964RS and a 964RS Clubsport (N/GT) is the layer of carpet, a roll cage and different seat material. Even the top of the race tree, the Cup cars, were only a fraction quicker than these cars. There was a case of a 92 Cup car that was written off in practice and they rebuilt it with a road going 964RS overnight. You can't do that with a GT3RS.

I can order any part from the 996 cup Motorsport catalogue and bolt it onto my car without modification. That's enough justification for me that they're similar enough under the skin. Design and safety requirements for road cars today don't allow them to be as similar to the race car as they once were. Competition in the market that demands a certain (high) level of userfriendly-ness in performance cars today which is why the 991 is where it is. Hardcore enthusiasts (like most of us here are) are a minority.

[hugh]

Prior to buying my MK1 I had a deposit on an ex nations cup car. Registration was proving to be an issue unfortunately but my (more or less factory) GT3 is essentially the same car. Swap the airbags, aircon and radio for a sequential shifter, motec & slicks and your into a cup car of the era. That's why I was drawn to the MK1, specifically due it being the only GT3 produced at the time, homologating it into the varied shapes and specs they come in now. 

Thread has taken a tangent, but hey...................I'm just another Porsche dork that's become a GT3 tragic. 

[James P]

Prior to buying my MK1 I had a deposit on an ex nations cup car. Registration was proving to be an issue unfortunately but my (more or less factory) GT3 is essentially the same car. Swap the airbags, aircon and radio for a sequential shifter, motec & slicks and your into a cup car of the era. That's why I was drawn to the MK1, specifically due it being the only GT3 produced at the time, homologating it into the varied shapes and specs they come in now. 

Thread has taken a tangent, but hey...................I'm just another Porsche dork that's become a GT3 tragic. 

Back in the day of nations cup we took new MK1 GT3's & turned them into race cars, the mods were full roll cage, cup car shocks with softer springs, slicks, race seat, window net, race steering wheel & a cup car fuel drain fitting in the engine bay thats about it. The motec was data logging only the standard ecu's were swapped at each race meeting with the other gt3 competitors to make sure no one played with them. All mechanicals were standard.

[symsy]

So today I looked at a very tasty 997 GT3 RS  2008 in the UK at Paragon around 230k maybe a little cheaper..   so even with LCT  …its cheaper to buy an import… Is that an indication of over inflated prices

[turboT]

So today I looked at a very tasty 997 GT3 RS  2008 in the UK at Paragon around 230k maybe a little cheaper..   so even with LCT  …its cheaper to buy an import… Is that an indication of over inflated prices

but you can't import one. AUSTRALIAN protectionism wins every time...