Track day interest

[edgy]

The only issue with SMP .. is the amount of track time and lots and lots of rule…….too many ..

I am a big fan of SMP full circuit, GREAT track. 

Just a thought, ARDC are running a twilight session next month on Saturday the 18th on the north circuit, its only $120 I did the last one with Rob in October, was great. 

It is a cams sanctioned super sprint, so you'll need to conform to their regs, which isn't a big deal really.

[symsy]

Agree on the full track , awesome.

[GC9911]

Update: sent off 1 more email, if I get no response then they don't know who I am (nobody), then I will declare The Farm a dead venue for us. Apologies to those who may have been excited including me.

[K911]

Thats a shame. Always wanted to experience the farm. Thanks for looking into it. Much appreciated.

[GC9911]

PFA'ers,

It appears I am unable to sort out an arrangement with the guy I previously dealt with organising a Farm Day. Other than his initial response that he would make enquiries my other two emails requesting an update have gone unanswered. I can only assume he doesn't know who I am (a nobody obviously). 

So, appologies to all, I tried. If things change I will of course advise, I'm not sure what's going on as previuosly he has been very good to deal with & it's all been really well organised.  Looks like we are shortlisting Wakefield Park, Symsy has made initial enquiries & I believe he has further followed up & awaiting a response. 

Bit of a shame as The Farm is such a good day from my previous outings.

[Peter M]

Greg,

I appreciate your tireless efforts.

Thank you

Peter

[itsujack]

Greg,

I appreciate your tireless efforts.

Thank you

Peter

Agreed, thanks Greg, let's see how we go with Wakefield.

[symsy]

 

Greg and I spoke the other day on the phone and we are still both keen to try to cordinate something to get us together.

With the lack of response from the Farm,  I went back to Wakefield for another generic conversation Today,  as we havent set dates..  but be honest I ended up in a relatively circuar discussion on prices.

For those that are not aware the basic costs really boil down to  track hire + medical team onsite + flag marshalls + a couple of instructors + insurance to run the day.

I share this as for those that google and do the simple math equation of track hire only their numbers fall a little short if you dont add on the additions that are compulsory.

Variables are the use of garages , overnight accomodations thats are available at this particular track  and then the type of catering we want to do.

For our cost this simply then gets divided to the number of cars we have.

So with that said, I really want to come back to scope or the concept of what we are looking to do here?  Is the focus more social gathering or intro session or are people looking for an open track format with lots of seat time?

I am going to go to PFA Vic Day and lets use their session for a discussion example, a 50 car day like theirs means the $ numbers for a day are very low or relatively low but no doubt will not offer heaps of track time.

Is this the aim,  200-350 arena for NSW ?  Are we price driven or other?

Beyond finances to offer some further input , for those that havent been to or run these events, it would help to get a feel for how many cars would they like to be out there on a track with?  

More cars = less speed , less track time = more risk , so are we searching for a price point or a diffrent risk based formula. There is however I believe a marginal benefit having a single marque out there and a relatively high value of car being used, so you dont get so many crazies. Is this also our intention Pcars only?

From here we can move to session scheduling considerations or a seat/track time based discussion

To share an example based on what I have observed - 8 cars in a session at Wakefiel is great, 12 can also work , more may present challenges with such a mixed bunch of drivers/car variability and can limit the enjoyment factor for the accomplished and or increase the anxiety levels for newbies.  

Are we looking for all out speed , technical driving challenge, social satisfaction ?? Again I offer as input and im not the Guru on this subject but will offer up something to reflect on .

Without killing road focused cars and considering peoples average track attention spans for us mortals who dont race regular my feeling is 15-20 mins is a good session time allocation for both cars and drivers.  So to fit 3 sessions in an hour would need for it all to be flowing , no issues , spins accidents etc that cause a session to be extended including cool down lamps and change over.

After briefing , a walk of track, breakfast, sign on, including a lunch break you would get somewhere between 4-6 sessions in a day .. I will let you lot do the thinking and crunching on what that schedule might look like again happy to get guidance from others please to chime in here.

With regards to number of sessions for a driver,  again I will throw out a guide , I think 2 is just enough 3 is ok - 4 is real nice and most people dont have the focus, energy or cars to go 5-6 sessions.

Im happy to chase around here just the guys im talking to are asking us to help them carve up a good scope and will support us to create whatever we want .. question is what is that? Guide me / us Greg and I.. lets see what we can cook up. 

I also did go and shake my own network a little  on the Farm. I get from the feedback that they are really only looking to contiune to extend invitation to those that have already been there with few exceptions and via a chosen set of hosts.

 I can get to one of those hosts who is still currently engaged .. but what I can gather there is 10-12 cars max, very very strict noise limits and it runs at around 650-750 per head for a price reference… again I aint sayin those prices are right wrong affordable just sharng what  I heard

I have no ideas or contacts for SMP, first glance, openers for a partial track is $7k+ Im guessing the other compulsory stuff like Wakefield for a partial track and $17k+ anyone go any inroads to SMP?

Im afraid there aint much negotiations and  tyre kicking with these track folks to be done...

Cheers Steve

 

[TINGY]

There is a guy who runs track days in Newcastle and the last one that he ran was quite a cheap day at Wakefield.

I am told it was a great day and was $250 a throw or there a bouts. A great morning session then the attrition starts, tired cars, tired bodies etc, the afternoon session only half the people were still running around then by mid afternoon less than half again and by all reports it was stay out as long as you dared at this stage.

This guy has a workshop in Newcastle so i will try and see him next week and get some info of him and see if I can contribute something to the cause.

[tk111]

My two cents;

Steve, Greg thanks for pursuing this, hopefully we can get it off the ground.

My experience is mostly at Wakefield with two different types of days.

The first was an attempt to try and seed the experience and send cars/drivers out in specified groups. The aim being trying to match LapTimes and skills. Unfortunately this ultimately meant long waits between stints and naturally groups diminished throughout the day.  The seeding is very difficult to get right as everybody has a different view on how skilled/experienced they are.  I actually found this format very frustrating.

The second is essentially time limited sessions(15mins) with a limit of how many cars can be on the track at any one time, I think it is around 10. Any car can come on and off as often as they like.  This continues all day long with a lunch break.  Just before lunch there is a "timed session" of one car at a time doing a hot lap. This is purely voluntary and for bragging rights only. The only rule is strictly no overtaking in corners.

As you said as the day goes on less and less cars and drivers take to the track, which means those who are keen to get lots of running in get a fairly free track in the afternoon. Understanding this, makes the earlier sessions with some traffic and interruptions quite workable and I often use the early sessions as practice. Those who are finding their feet can also mix it up with the others in this instance.

As for catering options, I have found the canteen to be quite versatile, I have also been to catered events. I suspect it's the same caterers serving both.  So why not allow each person to order and buy whatever they prefer.

My preferred format would be the second one I mentioned with the track closing for a lunch break. Which would allow for socialising and rest and recovery in the canteen.

My car being not as fast as the newer stock in a straight line sometimes means I get overtaken on the straights and can catch them in the corners.  I find if I am frustrated by the car in front, dipping into the pits and out again can set me in a different space on the track.

i am no expert, but I really do enjoy the track days.  So I try and go to as many as I can get to.

Thanks again for looking into it.

[SimonN]

From my point f view, I want to be able to have a good time socially as well as getting track time. If the timed sessions are 15 - 20 minutes, 2 sessions aren't enough. It has to be at least 3. If you make them 15 minutes, you can comfortably run 3 per hour. If you allow a little bit before lunch and at the end to make up the time lost swapping groups, you should be able to run 18 sessions in total, or 6 groups. If you have 10 per group, that's 60 cars. If there are places, the really keen can buy an extra slot, or maybe share another slot with somebody.

[GC9911]

Thanks Symsy,

The Farm is selected as you say & limited to 12 cars on the day, usually only 4 cars on the track at any one time, usually around the $600+.

On the number of laps, my experience is that 4-6 laps at a reasonable (personal) pace is enough when concentrating full on, I always initially thought 4-6 laps was a pussy effort until you get out there at speed. My observations is by the end of lunch the majority are feeling a little weathered/tired & there are 2 groups out after lunch, group 1, all wound up & ready to go again or group 2, "shit I survived the morning & I might just cruise through the arvo".

I've done Eastern Creek, Queensland raceway, Symons plains & The Farm & even though all these tracks are different (length, complexity, speed) 4-6 laps seems to be enough for most amateurs, (me included).

In relation to what we are aiming to achieve here my original concept was an experience on the track for those that have done this before & for those that have not, that is both challenging but not intimidating for the newbies allowing everyone to have a track day in the company of other P car enthusiasts, it's not a race with prizes afterall.

An alternative could be we book quite a number of spots on an open Wakefiled/SMP day & take our chances with the ricers, OR go back to SMT's. 

Can we get an indication of serious numbers? so we can do a cost analysis? Suggest PM myself or Symsy & we will collate the numbers.

Thanks guys.

 

 

[sleazius]

I'm in with another track noob (2 cars) for Wakefield. I travel a bit though and so does the +1 so lots of notice is critical to a lock in for me (>=3mths).

I'm not going to be going flat out because I simply don't have the skills, so if that interferes with what you guys want to achieve I'm happy to bow out and do some more driver training on the side till I do have them. I'm not price sensitive so whatever it costs it costs.

[edgy]

Hey guys, spring is just around the corner, that is prime time for the track. 

Is anyone interested in doing something still? 

 

[Peter M]

Still keen!  Count me in please.

[MFX]

My 911 won't be ready for a while, but I could be convinced to go and have some fun in the S5.

[Gavn]

I'm keen.

[GC9911]

Well done Edgy, I'm still traumatised from trying to organise the last one (fail), best thing I got together is an SMT for one last week. Let me know if you need a hand.

[edgy]

Well done Edgy, I'm still traumatised from trying to organise the last one (fail), best thing I got together is an SMT for one last week. Let me know if you need a hand.

sorry boss! ?

 

So onto business, from what I can tell, the farm is a no go for now, so let's just drop it from the equation. 

I would propose a Wakefield day if people are keen? 

I see Sydney Motorsport Park as being too costly for what we would want and the numbers we'd generate, Wakefield will keep it accessible for everyone. 

My thoughts on the format are: 

- Small group (40 cars total) 

- practice sessions 

- Timed event

- 4 (maybe 5) run groups 

- 10 cars per group sent out at 5 second intervals, gridded fastest to slowest

- approx 10 minute run sessions 

- Catering??? I can organise something cool I'm sure. 

 

Based on the above, by timing and grouping cars in their correct speed groups we should be able to run each group with little to no chance of cars grouping up, or worse making contact.

A lap of Wakefield will be anywhere from just over 1 minute to 1:30 ~ so sending out cars in their speed groups with approx 5 secs between will allow that space! 

This will be good for both the experienced who want to push hard and for the novice who just wants to have fun and drive within their comfort zone. After all everyone wants to have fun and bring their car home in 1 piece! 

4 groups at about 10 minutes will mean everyone should get a session every hour (or more) with space in between, the PCNSW sprints run 8 minute sessions which are plenty, so I'm just using 10 as a round number. 

 

Id like to hear feedback on this and some pricing. I would imagine $300-500 may be what's needed, but I'll get some numbers and probably touch base with @symsy as I know he put the feelers out to them already. 

With regards to trying to cut costs by having no timing, or increasing numbers, it's not really a concept I think is wise for anyone, frankly I'm not interested in such events, it's dangerous mixing cars of different speeds and drivers of different skills. And if like me your Porsche represents a big part of your investment, it just seems stupid to try and save such small $$$ for such high risk. 

I think the theme of the day should be fun, relaxed and no pressure with a good social aspect for PFA and it's members. 

 

Ok, I have my flame suit on! 

[Peter M]

 

Ok, I have my flame suit on! 

Absolutely no need.  I think you have nailed it perfectly!

[GC9911]

No need for the flame suit at all! 

[symsy]

Im with Ya @edgy .. you make many good points buddy

I can revisit all discussions.. F..m is a invite possibility only, transparently I can tell you ,  if you are cost sensitive then it aint for you , its 700+ (Not my price , not that Im calling that a right or wrong or value) and its a if your invited or introduced.  I havent got myself on there missed the last session and my opportunity.

Noise is an issue there … I can probably make intros to someone who is someone …. as I said I aint been yet but in the loop

The other thing to note is that really dont want the site discussed or social media covered.

The question still to be answered .. for Wakefield and SMP , whats the style of the event being aimed at.

A day with some sprints ??  Full track session ?  More of a get together ??  Catering ?  Passenger rides .. maybe a possibility .. needed?  Instructors .. how many and what the target budget number per head?

Happy to try help, what I will also say is that .. organising this aint no jaunt, you will have to be committed..and clear gang,  that wasnt apparent so much last time.

I think if you use Melbourne as a yardstick for a format and price.. we could work from there.. motorsport aint cheap and no one is making money

 

PS Got a new suit so , throw petrol on me 

PPS The F..m place wil be limited I reckon to 7-10 , even less possibly for a get together

[itsujack]

Count me in too!

We're off to eastern creek this Thursday with PCSS for our first track day in the Spyder, can hardly wait...

Just hoping the Spyder is half as much fun on track as it was belting through tassie chasing @Pork Chops 

[edgy]

 

The question still to be answered .. for Wakefield and SMP , whats the style of the event being aimed at.

mate forget the farm! Maybe in the future, but right now, I've no time for chasing marginal opportunities.

Format? Easy lets just call it a sprint, that is man & machine racing the clock! If we have good structure as setout above, it will be fun and most importantly SAFE for everyone.

And you know I can hook up a good feed for everyone mate  

Count me in too!

I'm off to eastern creek this Thursday for a day with PCSS and first track day in the Spyder, can hardly wait...

Just hoping the Spyder is half as much fun on track as it was belting through tassie chasing @Pork Chops 

would be good to have you along mate! 

Are they running the GP circuit? That is hands down my favorite, your spyder is perfect for it. Enjoy

[itsujack]

mate forget the farm! Maybe in the future, but right now, I've no time for chasing marginal opportunities.

Format? Easy lets just call it a sprint, that is man & machine racing the clock! If we have good structure as setout above, it will be fun and most importantly SAFE for everyone.

And you know I can hook up a good feed for everyone mate  

I'm liking the sound of this! Agree, let's leave out f..m and go to Wakefield. For a good balance of safety, fun and food I think it's pretty hard to go past the Burrows Day format and rules, with maybe a few tweaks.

Are they running the GP circuit? That is hands down my favorite, your spyder is perfect for it. Enjoy

No idea, it's our first time there with PCSS, only done Burrows there before on both circuits, and I know most don't like it but I enjoy the tricky tight turns of the Brabham. Will report back after with any tips.