DIY ITB EFI

[Pfitz911]

Hi all

I promised Al some time ago that I would do a thread on installing his ITB kit.

For those of you who dont know, Al Kosmal has a company called X Faktory. He is based in Washington USA    http://www.x-faktory.com/

After months of harassing him with questions and deliberations, I finally bit the bullet and bought his kit several months ago. Not cheap by any standards and my kids may well have to go from private to public schooling from now on, but hey, I got me some ITBs. Certainly if you compare Als kit to Jenvey, Clewett, or Rasant, its good value (i know Rasant includes the ignition side of things). The main positive for me was that Al ALWAYS responds promptly to emails. There have been several long phone calls as well and he never brushes you off.

 

Anyway, once the money was paid, I received this last November. The dog was already there, Al doesn't sell dogs

 

So I read his manual about 10000 times to try and get it in my head, more emails to Al. Well enough was enough. The CIS was going great and the car was going really well, so once the weather was crap (we had late rains here in Adelaide),I decided to take it off the road and rip out the CIS. Not before a test fit!!

 

I realised pretty quickly that this really isnt that hard, so I hope this simple thread will help someone else considering ITBs with EFI

Dan

So thats annoying...my pictures didnt go on the post?? Any ideas what Im doing wrong?

 

[Pauly]

ITBs are great! once you figure out what you've done wrong with the photos, i'd like to see. 

I'm going ITBs + Turbo on my 924. I've made my flanges, Just need to get the throttle bodies. Im probably going Jenvey because i like how they connect to eachother with out the need of to many linkages and complexibility. I will be using the DCOE style ITBs just a little easier to do. 

What ECU are you going with? 

[Pfitz911]

MS2 is the ECU

Man, Ive tried everything to get these bloody photos up

Apparently this forum allows you bugger-all space to upload photos

Anyone care to start a new topic "DIY photo upload for PFA"

[Pauly]

Most of us used photobucket to upload, until they decided to charge everyone $500 or so to allow 3rd party sharing. So i've started to use Flickr. https://www.flickr.com/ It shouldn't be to hard to work out. That situation has really pissed me off though as it has stuffed a lot of my threads on a few forums. 

Are you using a base tune or getting someone to tune the MS2? 

[Mike D'Silva]

MS2 is the ECU

Man, Ive tried everything to get these bloody photos up

Apparently this forum allows you bugger-all space to upload photos

Anyone care to start a new topic "DIY photo upload for PFA"

easiest way, is to open an IMGUR account.. 

[MFX]

I have started using the free google hosting if you have a gmail or other google account.

[Mike D'Silva]

I have started using the free google hosting if you have a gmail or other google account.

I couldn't work out how to get the share link for google photos.. I got as far as clicking the share button, but it only gives me this link...(for example)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J75YFaSDCAqYxZ8g2

 

[Harvs11]

Flickr.  It works. 

Had to test it again 

 

[MFX]

Here is a photo from my account

To get it to work, I clicked on the picture to open it and then right clicked on it to 'copy image address'. Then I went to the 'Insert other media' option on this page and copied the link in there. 

[Pfitz911]

Im almost there..I think. Why is technology so hard? I was the kid back in the eighties that was the "go to" for any of your VHS video needs. I could set it up, record like a champ.

Now my kids laugh at me because I dont know the diff between snapchat and instagram.

I could have something up in 10 minutes or 10 days. Im going Flickr

 

060 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

YOU BEEEAUTY!!

Ok, so heres the glorious package arriving

059 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

and the test fit LOL

063 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Maybe Ill choose the medium size next!!

[Stew F]

You don't know the difference between Snapchat and Instagram? ?

[Harvs11]

Im almost there..I think. Why is technology so hard? I was the kid back in the eighties that was the "go to" for any of your VHS video needs. I could set it up, record like a champ.

Now my kids laugh at me because I dont know the diff between snapchat and instagram.

 

I bet you had a favorite VHS tape where there was one spot that gone worn out

Probably a good thing we didn't have Spankchat in the 80's. 

 

ITB's are the new porn???

[MFX]

What's a VHS tape? 

[Coastr]

What's a VHS tape? 

very high static

[Pfitz911]

Ok, first thing was to remove the CIS. Theres a few bits and pieces on the forum about this, but I wasnt sure how easy it was going to be. Turns out its very easy.

Disconnect the electrical connectors (AAR and WUR, cold start valve)

063 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

078 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Remove the linkage to the throttle body, remove blower fan, hoses out of the way

Remove the breather hose and vacuum to dizzy

076 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

075 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Remove the 12 nuts holding the intake runners to the heads (some were a pain in the coit to access)

070 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

remove the fuel lines. Accumulator goes

067 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

There is also a nut that holds the airbox to the rear of the engine

The whole thing should come out (I had to take some of the runners off to get it out)

080 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

plug intake ports with paper towel

079 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Pretty bloody easy really. You work things up in your head, thinking it will be harder that it actually is!!

 

Now its time to clean the shroud!!

Oh, and Stew, I didnt even have to borrow a tool from you!

[Pork Chops]

Like.  Subscribed.

[Cheshire Cat]

Ok, first thing was to remove the CIS. Theres a few bits and pieces on the forum about this, but I wasnt sure how easy it was going to be. Turns out its very easy.

Disconnect the electrical connectors (AAR and WUR, cold start valve)

 

Pretty bloody easy really. You work things up in your head, thinking it will be harder that it actually is!!

 

Now its time to clean the shroud!!

Oh, and Stew, I didnt even have to borrow a tool from you!

That all looks and feels so familiar. I`ll just observe

[Pfitz911]

Ok, so now all is bare, next step was to remove the existing intake studs, and replace them with the longer studs Al provides. I tried the two nut method, but wasnt working so great.

I bought a $30 stud removal kit from Adelaide tools which worked perfectly

009 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Next was to install the gaskets and spacers. There are two gaskets and one spacer per intake, ie gasket, spacer then gasket. I used a thin layer of gasket sealer as vacuum leaks would be fatal for a good MAP signal to the ECU. Unfortunately gents I forgot to take photos of this process. Pretty simple though...bolt it all down to 18 ft/lbs, and install the linkage drop links, and linkage to the crossbar and bell crank. The CIS bell crank is ditched.

010 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

020 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Next, we need to install the ECU in the car. I chose to go under the drivers seat. Two holes need to be drilled into the side of the trans tunnel. Obviously fuel lines are in this space so apparently great care needs to be taken!! I was speaking to my porsche indie not long before this and he said one of his customers tried to install an ECU and nicked a fuel line causing a significant leak...oops

Two holes, one for the ECU harness and the other for the vacuum line to the ECU

024 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Routing the harness and vacuum line through the car into the engine bay was a pain with one person, but not too hard.

Next is mounting the throttle body vacuum ports and connecting the line from the ECU, and the lines from the ITBs

023 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

As well as setting up/installing the fuel regulator and attaching the appropriate lines

034 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

I went down to my local hydraulic shop to get a 90 degree attachment for the gauge as Als setup had it facing upwards. I thought it would be alot easier to see facing the rear of the car. I didn't realise just how many thread patterns/sizes there are. Yanks of course are still stuck in the dark ages with imperial.

035 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

010 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

And with filters on its starting to look the part

007 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

One thing that bugged me was the vacuum to the dizzy and how that would be incorporated. Al reckons he just ditches the vacuum altogether, which Im sure is fine. Just to keep things the same as before, I got my mate Mario (everyone should have a mate called Mario) to make up this little number to combine the brake booster vacuum with the dizzy vacuum

009 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

017 by Dan Pfitzner, on Flickr

Next...WIRING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NaFe]

Late to the party, but Subscribed

[Redracn]

Dont want to be a downer but I hope this info helps you get a good result.

There are many aftermarket ECU  at the cheap/amateur end that have an integrated Manifold Pressure Sensor (MAP Sensor) built into the black box. This configuration has a number of issues.

The OEM installations of a MAP sensor will always be such that the connecting hose (if the sonsor is not directly mounted to the manifold) will go down hill from the sensor to the manifold and the sensor nipple will point down. The reason is to drain any water condensation and oil out of the sensor and connecting line. The need to do this results from two issues the first is that liquid in the connecting tube slows down the response of the sensor to changes in manifold pressure resulting in a delay in the correct fueling when the throttle moves. The other is that water/oil is heavy compared to air and results in an incorrect MAP reading.

So for an aftermarket ECU with integrated MAP sensor to be installed correctly it must be mounted higher then the intake manifold and the connecting tube must be run in a continuous downhill fashion so that any fluid in it can drain back to the manifold. But this is seldom the case with the end result being slow response to changes in manifold vacuum along with an error in the MAP reading that depends on the height differential, the amount of fluid in the line and its length. The cheap/amateur designers have been doing this for 30years just to save $20 compared to a using a separate correctly mounted MAP sensor. Just check out any standard road car to see how it should be done. 

 

 

[Pfitz911]

mmm...I was waiting for it

[Zelrik911]

I wouldnt get too much concerned about sensor placement at this stage. Get that puppy running first & then sort out the 'ideal' with fine-tuning afterwards.

Al is right about your distributor vacuum.

Consider eventually getting rid of that old points distributor altogether & doing a simple crankfire ignition, which will be a very easy mod after your ITB stuff.

Looking forward to the YouTube of the first startup.

[NaFe]

Dont want to be a downer but I hope this info helps you get a good result.

There are many aftermarket ECU  at the cheap/amateur end that have an integrated Manifold Pressure Sensor (MAP Sensor) built into the black box. This configuration has a number of issues.

The OEM installations of a MAP sensor will always be such that the connecting hose (if the sonsor is not directly mounted to the manifold) will go down hill from the sensor to the manifold and the sensor nipple will point down. The reason is to drain any water condensation and oil out of the sensor and connecting line. The need to do this results from two issues the first is that liquid in the connecting tube slows down the response of the sensor to changes in manifold pressure resulting in a delay in the correct fueling when the throttle moves. The other is that water/oil is heavy compared to air and results in an incorrect MAP reading.

So for an aftermarket ECU with integrated MAP sensor to be installed correctly it must be mounted higher then the intake manifold and the connecting tube must be run in a continuous downhill fashion so that any fluid in it can drain back to the manifold. But this is seldom the case with the end result being slow response to changes in manifold vacuum along with an error in the MAP reading that depends on the height differential, the amount of fluid in the line and its length. The cheap/amateur designers have been doing this for 30years just to save $20 compared to a using a separate correctly mounted MAP sensor. Just check out any standard road car to see how it should be done. 

 

 

I have an MS3 with MS3-X card.  I soldered it up myself from a kit.  I'm not sure whether its possible to do what I am about to suggest with your Megasquirt, but....

If you are bothered by the MAP sensor not being on the engine, you lift the MAP sensor from the ECU board and mount it directly to the engine.  Then, jsut run the wires from the MAP sensor to the ECU box.  I only suggest this as when I assembled my MS3-X I had to solder the MAP sensor onto the board.  I have not done what I am suggesting.

[Redracn]

I have an MS3 with MS3-X card.  I soldered it up myself from a kit.  I'm not sure whether its possible to do what I am about to suggest with your Megasquirt, but....

If you are bothered by the MAP sensor not being on the engine, you lift the MAP sensor from the ECU board and mount it directly to the engine.  Then, jsut run the wires from the MAP sensor to the ECU box.  I only suggest this as when I assembled my MS3-X I had to solder the MAP sensor onto the board.  I have not done what I am suggesting.

You could move the sensor but you will need a number of additional components to properly remove electrical noise and add ESD and Electrical fast transient protection. Better to get an OEM sensor designed for the job and connect to an ECU input designed for connection to external sensors. I would not recommend relocating the built in sensor. 

I wouldnt get too much concerned about sensor placement at this stage. Get that puppy running first & then sort out the 'ideal' with fine-tuning afterwards.

Consider eventually getting rid of that old points distributor altogether & doing a simple crankfire ignition, which will be a very easy mod after your ITB stuff.

 

No amount of fine tuning will fix the issues associated with the onboard MAP sensor.

Unless this is an outright race engine keep the vacuum advance or equivalent as it makes a big difference compared to RPM only based advance. 

[Pork Chops]

Go Dan!  That's as tech as I get.