Gday , name's Bruce!

[tazzieman]

Hammond's hellblau

 

Word is after 3 years of trying to reach the pedals he gave up

[tazzieman]

Good summary

 

[Coastr]

It's basically simple , but they made the engine vacuum do all sorts of useful stuff , not just "engine biofeedback" related !

In the earliest 928s , the central locking is vacuum operated , in mine the headlight angle can be adjusted with a dial...

Shades of the Citroen DS and its multitasking hydraulics.

Fascinating engineering solutions 

When I was a tacker we had an old Benz that did everything on vacuum. You only got two goes at the central locking after the engine stopped. The first time I saw an electric central locking on a jap car I was amazed,

[tazzieman]

They say the 928 was the distillation everything Porsche had learnt in motorsports.

The myth is it was the 911 replacement.

 

The fact is , the purity of style has never been bettered.

 

[tazzieman]

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/curbside-classic-blasphemy-with-a-big-butt/

 

 

 

Brock Yates, reporting for C&D, had this to say; ‘I can’t remember driving a car with more perfect ergonomics. The steering wheel and instrument pad adjust as a unit, and the pedals can be moved to accommodate the short. The engine is gorgeous–the best possible marriage of German and American technical acumen. There’s torque all over the place, and it stays smooth all the way to the red-line. The 928 is the fulfillment of an old enthusiast’s dream–the sports-racing car tamed for use on the street.

 

As I become more familiar with my 33 year old jalopy ....

 

[tazzieman]

With the fuel economy of 2x 4 cylinder engines

 

 

[JustJames]

This is an interesting photo.

 

Although Porsche has historically placed the engine in the wrong end of the car, I always thought that it was only with the introduction of the Boxster that telling the front from the rear of the car became an issue.

 

Evidently putting the engine in the front of the car was confusing in the era of the 928...

 

(VORN = Front)

 

[Harvs11]

James, you're thinking about it too much. Auto assembly workers do not get an opportunity to make a decision on the line. In typical German fashion nothing is left to chance so EVERYTHING is labelled.

[tazzieman]

And the biggest criticism I've read about the 928 was that it was just too well made. For some , the histrionics of brands like Ferrari were the selling point. I mean , a 928 doesn't yell and scream and throw things at you. 

How many other 80s supercars are driving around Hobart as daily drivers? 2. Mine , and Stuart's 928S4. QED!

[tazzieman]

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2013/12/01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html

 

 

 

The good news here is that potentially the most expensive components of the car--the engine and transaxle--have proven themselves incredibly robust. As Porsche's first clean-sheet, from-the-ground-up design, the 928 may have perhaps been over-engineered in some regards. You rarely, if ever, hear of 928 engines failing, or even of excessive wear of internal parts. Even the transaxles have shown to be long-lived over the years.

Mark Anderson, owner of 928 International, of Anaheim, California (and another champion 928 racer), lauds the longevity of the engines: "It's kind of amazing when you pull one apart that's got high miles on it and you look for wear and you just don't see it. 

 

But ignore routine maintenance at your peril! No different , of course,  to any highly engineered car.

[tazzieman]

Le Mans 24 hrs , 1983

 

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=jMx1xheOTcwC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=porsche+928+le+mans&source=bl&ots=UMqQ6dG5ac&sig=nWFyTmL6sNcjtGy6A0FMSvKxvyU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PLGRU8y1J8_ZkgXP7YHQDQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=porsche%20928%20le%20mans&f=false

 

 

[tazzieman]

Le Mans 1978

 

[tazzieman]

Shark week

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3_i3PPe3i9Y?rel=0

 

 

For the rest of us...

[tazzieman]

 

Production was carried out at the factory in Stuttgart - Zuffenhausen, side by side with the 911 cars thus

eliminating any doubt as to the build quality of customer cars. It is interesting to note that even given the

928's pedigree, it has never attained the same reverence as the air-cooled Porsches. Though thoroughly

acknowledged by the press as the best GT car Porsche ever produced, it remains largely unappreciated

except for those in the know, and those who have succumbed to it's unrelenting push toward top

acceleration

http://www.ebooksmagz.com/pdf/dr-ing-h-c-f-porsche-ag-the-company-history-109772.pdf

[tazzieman]

 

 

 I came to my 928 after ownership of a 911, the 964 model. My eye-opener experience came at a PCGB Silverstone track day, held using the full GP circuit. I'd booked an instructor session, without giving it much forethought. Well, needless to say, it was the best £20 I've ever spent. He could not only drive my car round Silverstone in a much quicker time than I'd achieved, while also taking less out of the car, but he also demonstrated that the 928 platform is so much more stable than the 911's of that time are when it came to the high-speed corners. 

A 928 remains the car I have spent the most high-speed time in on public roads and it is the performance and sure-footed handling above 100 mph that really makes it unique. The faster I went, the more confidence I had with the car, whereas a 964-era 911 gets "interesting" at 100+. 

Hmmm, where can I go to properly test this car?

[tazzieman]

Organic,  baby

 

[tazzieman]

My Bruce is blushing!

 

 

 

 

The 928 ( any version ) was always a low volume production GT car with lots of exotic materials used as standard & being a car from deep last century , its very much a car you can dismantle & repair lots of individual components , where as on most / all this century cars a lot of the individual components , like Auto transmissions , power steering components , ball joints , engines are for the most part not repairable in the way last century cars were ( that time we grew up with has disappeared in this century ) , thats just how it is 

 

Plus like the  944 / 951 / 968 / 911 from last century , they are not too old as to not being able to source parts & the big plus is a 928S4 ( for example ) purchased that is in very nice cosmetic condition ( meaning not in desperate need of a repaint ( too much Australian sun over 27 years ) & nice to very nice interior ( again not sun destroyed ) is very inexpensive to buy when one considered how expensive they were brand new & how exotic these engineering masterpieces are , particularly when you dismantle one for the first time & see first hand the over the top expensive engineering / cost that Porsche invested in these very high in human labour to assemble GT cars 

 

Things to think about in regards to the 928/S/S4/GT/GTS }

 

A ) like the 944 / 951 / 968 , the 928 ( all ) have a near perfect weight distribution ( front & rear ) , this is because the Alloy V8 engine was pushed back in the engine bay ( no gearbox behind it ) , T Tube drive to the transaxle trans at the rear , even the battery is at the rear , but this is where the similarity stops with the 944 series , the 928 ( all ) because the cost new was so much more ,Porsche put a lot more exotic materials into the car which leads to }

 

All alloy front guards & bonnet ( engine lid ) , both doors are completely made of alloy , inner & outer sections of the door plus the window frame ( the whole thing ) , you don't see this to often on a last century car 

 

C ) The front and rear upper suspension arms are Forged alloy ( not cast but forged ) & made by Fuchs of Germany ( no other Porsche received this over the top engineering ) , the front suspension lower control arms are massive box section alloy ( these lower suspension arms are the strongest suspension arms I have ever seen in my entire life in regards to cars sold to the public ( yet nearly none knows about this engineering )

 

D) The brakes fitted as standard on the 928S ( 1986 year type onwards ) are massive Brembo alloy 4 piston callipers on the front ( huge vented discs )  & rear brakes are Brembo alloy 4 piston callipers & large ( for rear) vented discs & ABS standard ( 86> )  , first Porsche to get ABS standard , it wasn't until 1990 ( 964) did the 911 series & the 944 series received ABS as standard , however the 944 series did have ABS as an expensive option from the 1987 year type , the 911 had to wait until the 964 arrival to get ABS 

 

E ) The 928 ( 1977/78 ) was the first Porsche to get a non rustable/ safety ( plastic fuel tank ) as standard , the 944 series got this from 1986 , but the poor old 911 had to wait until the arrival of the 964 in 1990 to get a much more safer fuel tank 

 

F ) The 928 is the only road car sold to the public that the front & rear wheels barely change in their camber as you raise one up onto a hoist , meaning when we put a 944 . 951 . 911 , 964 , 993 , 996 , 997 , 986 , etc etc up into the air ( on a hoist ) the rear wheels on the models mentioned above go through a lot of camber change , this is not desirable in the perfect world , meaning pushing a car hard on a bumpy country road & gaining into a corner one goes in too fast & at the same time you hit the brakes ( just for a second in desperation as we all do ) & naturally the car rides over an imperfection in the road surface ( bump ) and as the rear wheel / tyre is being pushed sideways ( because we are going way too fast ) the wheel / tyre looses contact with the road for a split second & the large neg camber ( under load) is now released & in a quarto of a second the camber has changed to positive = instant tyre slip & you have just found the limit of the car in that situation & you may make it or you may not make it 

If you can reduce this tendency ( camber change ) + add some toe in changers ( Weissach rear axle ) only found on the 928 series , Porsche was so proud of this design they named it after their famous Research centre .

The Weissach rear axle design is in effect a mechanical 4 wheel steering system ( I think Mazda paid Porsche a patent right to use a less expensive form on the RX7 , the 928 rear axle design rectifies the tendency of road cars with road car suspension bushings ( when pushed hard while cornering ) to understeer , meaning the weissach rear axle stops this under these conditions + very little camber change ( front or rear) = extreme road cornering possible without even causing a mild sweat  ( with decent tyres of course & shocks in good order ) 

In fact in those odd occasions where one goes way too deep into a corner while thinking this corner is not the one that gets tighter & tighter , then you realised you were thinking of the wrong corner , well in the same year model 911 & particularly a same year model 911 Turbo ( say 1980's anything ) you are in deep deep deep shit 

But in the 928 almost nothing really happens except for a mild 4 wheel slide , you can even make it worse in a 928 & use the brakes in mid corner ( not recommended in any car ) but the 928 just copes with it & you say to your'e self = gee I am a great driver 

And if the said 928 has a LSD ( limited slip diff ) its even more impressive , but if its worn ( like any LSD ) you don't get the impressive benefit 

 

But thats why I like the old 911 Turbo , its a widow make in tees hard road cornering conditions , I think they ( 911 Turbo > 1989 ) of the Kawasaki 750 Mach IV two strike triple I had for two years back in the mis 1970's , its that nervous feel and poet band that bike had reminds me so much of the 1970's & 1980's 911 Turbo's 

 

Thats the funny thing about the 928S4 ( example ) its almost too good , its level of stability was way way way way ahead of the competition it was in another league 

 

Then I could talk about the incredible Recaro seats that only the 928 got , then I could talk about the perfect correct legs straight ahead & not pushed to one side like the 911 got in R / H / D 

 

Then I could talk about the amazing potential of the interior ventilation & A/C

 

Then I could talk about the amazingly heavy ( read extremely safe ) occupant cell ( this is where all the weight is )

 

Then I could go on for hours about the magnificent alusil Mahle in Germany made engine crankcase , just like the 944 etc 

 

But I can't go on .I have run out of time

 

Regards

Bruce Buchanan

Buchanan Automotive

[tazzieman]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Buy-a-928s-porsche-sticker-7-yr-water-fade-proof-vinyl-sticker-car-/271533918641?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f38aec9b1&_uhb=1

 

[cyberpunky]

quote

"it wasn't until 1990 ( 964) did the 911 series & the 944 series received ABS as standard , however the 944 series did have ABS as an expensive option from the 1987 year type"

\ quote

 

I don't believe this is correct, in that the 1987 944 turbo had ABS as standard. In Australia we never actually got the 87 spec turbo, as they still sold 86 spec cars in 87(110 in total I believe, over the 2 years, 86 and 87). My car was sold in 87 so is registered as an 87 but was built in 86 and has 86 specs, and needs 86 spec parts etc. You may have been able to order(here in Aus) an 87 spec car(in 87) to get ABS and so why it may be considered an expensive option (not sure). In all my research this has been stated constantly(87 had ABS) and even wikipedia backs it up Link

 

Both 928 and 944 series had a few world firsts, including ceramic port liners and dual airbags, on the 944 turbo. I think forged pistons may have been a first too. Porsche has had many firsts over the years but I think these 2 (928 &944) had a lot of over engineering built into their design, as there were both ground up Porsche designs, and because they were not 911's Porsche may have possibly pushed the envelope a little harder in engineering, so they both would be harder to dismiss as *not real Porsche's*. Ironically I think a lot of the criticism was actually from Porsche 911 fans, rather than *outsiders* who all seemed to love them. I think biggest criticism was they were less engaging, as too easy too drive fast, so lacked that widow maker *thrill* that fast 911's were notorious for, at the time.

 

Im just glad that when I bought mine, they wern't sought after Porsches, so I could still afford one lol I think that will happen eventually, like it has done for 914's and 356's but maybe it won't happen and I can collect a few more of these awesome cars down the track. Only time will tell

[9fan]

(Then I could talk about the incredible Recaro seats that only the 928 got)

 

Sorry - 968 CS also had incredible Recaro seats !     

[Harvs11]

Pretty sure Recaro builds all P car seats. [tongue poking out face]

[tazzieman]

"928" Recaros are the best for GT purposes. You know , those drives from Paris to Nice...

I'd like a pair of the 928 sports seats but they are unobtainium.

928 Recaro is the seat you'd love to have in your lounge room. I've got an old pair and one day when "all Porsches are fully fixed" I may recover them for shed domestic or work purpose.

 

[cyberpunky]

They do look very comfy but I have to say my *sports* seats are awesome too. I drove from melb to adelaide and only stopped twice on way over. Once for fuel and food and once to get a ticket(5Ks over) and only once on way back for food and both trips I got out of car thinking I can't believe I have just done 800 K's and feel so fresh.

 

[tazzieman]

Porsche deliver a great ergonomic package compared to most sports cars of the era. The seat is just the icing on the cake. 

The pedals on my 911 are the "correct" german position but still after a long drive I get an aching thigh. The 928, 944 & 924 = just perfect. All are different , yet reassuringly Porsche-similar.

And btw the 40 year old Landrover with its flat old foam cushions is extremely comfortable to drive! Again , whoever designed this put some thought into ergonomics.

[tazzieman]

 

 

Some Porsche fans will always feel that the 911 was a far superior sports car than the 928 but raw performance numbers prove that the 928 was capable of easily out-accelerating every version of the 911 marketed during its lifespan except the 964 generation 911 Turbo. The 928 had superior 50/50 weight distribution and very predictable handling which made it a very capable on-track match for the 911.