84911C Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 Looks like I have joined the broken head stud group on my 3.2. Now I've been told that I should do a top end rebuild at the same time which means I'm up for 12k. So my question is, is this normal? Should I do the top end at the same time? Any advice would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 Heads can be removed along with the cam housing as a single unit. The studs can then be replaced. Rebuilding the top end is a decision which needs to be made based on condition not simply convenience of doing it the same time as other work. Have the valves and cams etc checked properly before diving in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 12k? holy f**k Okay i'm assuming you won't be doing it yourself? Depends on the condition and kilometers it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 12k? holy f**k Okay i'm assuming you won't be doing it yourself? Surgery on oneself is much cheaper than paying a surgeon. But you need to have a steady and confident head & hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozracer Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 12k ridiculous not a hard job do it yourself someone did it on here recently and posted their exploits for a couple of grand. Look in the aircooled section i think it was someone in canberra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV911 Posted 27August, 2014 Report Share Posted 27August, 2014 So my question is, is this normal? Should I do the top end at the same time? Answer: Definitely maybe Further question: how long has the head stud been broken? if only recently then you probably won't have to replace the head. Whether or not a top end rebuild is done will depend on the condition of the heads, rockers, cams, pistons, valves, springs and retainers etc etc etc. Bit hard to tell though without tearing it down... Further/rhetorical question 2: why is everyone surprised when people quote 12k for a top end? Once you start replacing stuff shit adds up quickly and most people don't have the knowledge, tools,time, courage or willingness to do it themselves. A quick flick through the pelican forums will show what happens when you follow 6 pages of advice from people who have no idea and get it wrong. Thankfully though people on PFA are much more learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84911C Posted 28August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 Hi Guys, There's no way i'm doing it myself, i'm hopeless with tools. The car has done 160,000k. Apparently the stud has only broken recently, (within 1 year max). I was simply told that it was 'while they are there' a Top End rebuild is the way to go' however 12k is a lot of coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 Every time I read a thread like this I develop another case of internet hypocardria At the very least, you would want to replace all the studs in the engine unless you just wanted to put it back together with the least amount of changes and sell the car. The 'while you're in there' aspect comes from the cost/hassle of pulling the engine apart to replace the studs, and the cost of all the gaskets/seals/hoses etc that inevitably get replaced during an operation like that. Once the heads are off it makes sense to look at all the camshafts, rocker arms, valve guides etc. At the very least it does increase the saleability of the car to have a top end rebuild. And then if you're going to keep it, it does increase the enjoyment of the vehicle knowing you have a fresh top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 12k would want to include a bottom end refresh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamr Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 I've also heard the $12k figure thrown around for a top end rebuild...... It always sounded like a TON of money to me ...The figures of $16k -$20k for a top and bottom rebuild also seem high endWhile I realise these are Porsches, I cant imagine a figure anywhere near that for a regular 6 cyl engine rebuild... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 I think the figures for an "Engine rebuild" can get too generalised at times, as mentioned before if you knew your engine was in good condition but one or a few of the studs broke then you should only really need to do the work required to replace them. However, there will always be "While your in there" stuff that you will do (ask me how i know) The other end of the scale is if your engine studs let go and you're previously un-touched motor is on or around the 300k Km mark, then it would be fair to assume a lot of parts will be ready for replacement. The PO of my car had an engine rebuild done around the 270k Km for $17500 and that was in 2007. Going through the invoices there were 3-4 areas of cost:Labour: R&R the engine, diss/re-assemble it etc.Parts: Cost wise most of them were billed at only a little bit more than you could have purchased them yourself.Sublet: Machine shop work etc. that the mech farms out and adds a mark up to (they are a business).While your in there stuff: Powdercoating,new muffler,clutch assy, tensioner upgrade,cam upgrade etc. So the parts are the parts and not much you can do there apart from shop around for the best prices, might save 5-10% Even if you didn't want to actually build the engine you could remove and install it yourself and take all the stuff off you want to clean paint etc. and you have just saved $1000-$1500. Or, if the tinkering is part of the enjoyment of your hobby you could show it as a deduction to the cost of owning your Porsche when audited by the minister of the interior With the machine shop work, if you do all fetching and carrying and pay the shop directly you might save 10-15% off the cost. And while you can potentially save a decent bit of money it will of course take longer to get done, and some mechs will not be willing to do only part of the job. While I would be confident in my own ability to do the majority of the work, I just don't have the time so it would probably end up taking me 6 months to finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 20k for n/a and 30k for turbo are general figures for a good peace of mind specialist full rebuild; you then have a motor which is "factory fresh". That is a good thing. Hopefully you'll get at least 200,000km out if it and 10-20 years of enjoyment, or get 50-75% back if you sell it sooner. Either way , if you do the man maths it's a lot cheaper than paying massive depreciation on new cars. Mind you , many here own a Porsche as a "weekend toy". Then , like a caravan or boat the figures can look a little silly to the other half , when you look at the "cost per trip". If you want to keep the car , IMO pay the cost of air cooled membership - otherwise just do the studs and seals and sell it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBayChris Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 20k for n/a and 30k for turbo are general figures for a good peace of mind specialist full rebuild; you then have a motor which is "factory fresh". That is a good thing. +1 Price seems right. I could not do it myself (makes me laugh just thinking about it) so my best option I to pay for someone good to do it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 28August, 2014 Report Share Posted 28August, 2014 Just do the maths on a decent engine builders hourly rate. Straight away you're looking at 30-60 hours of work depending on what they are doing. Then parts and subcontracting as Caledonian said. I know a local guy that paid $10k flate rate for a 356 engine to be resealed recently. That car spews smoke now when he's off the throttle and the car has to go back to get 're-fixed'. You get what you pay for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84911C Posted 29August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 After reading all of the above, I'm thinking i'll pony up the 12k and then keep the beast 'forever'. I'm just hoping they don't say "hey while we were in there - we discovered you need to do the bottom end" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J. Posted 29August, 2014 Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 who quoted the 12k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 29August, 2014 Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 who quoted the 12k? this.. 12k was a quote i got a few months back for top AND bottom refresh. (everything but new pistons) ridiculous if it's just for the heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV911 Posted 29August, 2014 Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 (everything but new pistons) "Everything" as in cams, rockers, valves, springs and retainers, head studs, conrod bolts, wrist pins etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84911C Posted 29August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 this.. 12k was a quote i got a few months back for top AND bottom refresh. (everything but new pistons) ridiculous if it's just for the heads The quote was for the studs and a top end rebuild. Where did you get the quote for top and bottom for 12?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 29August, 2014 Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 DHM- they rebuilt my engine 10 years ago with cup cams and fabspeed exhaust and installed it in the car (adding boxters S brakes to make the conversion legal) for 14k sum total (still going strong). the other thread made me curious about inflation so i asked while i was in there a month ago and they said 12k for top and bottom refresh, pistons adding extra. they would have just done a 3.6 so price should be dead on for my engine. 3.2 would surely be similar ballpark, but as per JV's post would be good idea to double check exactly what you are getting (could be that my engine is a known quantity to them, yours is not). the shop owner walked me through a 3.0 refresh and 915 rebuild when i was helping them out in the shop, was very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84911C Posted 29August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 29August, 2014 DHM- they rebuilt my engine 10 years ago with cup cams and fabspeed exhaust and installed it in the car (adding boxters S brakes to make the conversion legal) for 14k sum total (still going strong). the other thread made me curious about inflation so i asked while i was in there a month ago and they said 12k for top and bottom refresh, pistons adding extra. they would have just done a 3.6 so price should be dead on for my engine. 3.2 would surely be similar ballpark, but as per JV's post would be good idea to double check exactly what you are getting (could be that my engine is a known quantity to them, yours is not). the shop owner walked me through a 3.0 refresh and 915 rebuild when i was helping them out in the shop, was very informative. Wow, if it was that price I'd do it for sure. Where's DHM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 30August, 2014 Report Share Posted 30August, 2014 That is a good price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 31August, 2014 Report Share Posted 31August, 2014 Geez, I must look like a sucker. Three separate workshops have indicated to me $15k just for a top end!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 31August, 2014 Report Share Posted 31August, 2014 Roughly $8k for my top end @autoart in December. Including all seals, lubricants, valve guides etc, two new rockers, two new chain guides, cam and cylinder machining (sub contracted). I can see how it could get out of control as soon as damaged parts are found or you start 'upgrading' things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84911C Posted 31August, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 31August, 2014 Thanks for all of the advice guys, I was wondering also what it would cost for 'just the studs'? PS: Can anyone recommend a quality workshop in Sydney, Western Sydney? Might get some quotes. Thanks, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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