VW Diesel Emissions Scandal

[Hounddub]

There are far too many articles to be found about this emerging scandal........but WOW is all I can say.

Having been privvy to Toyota testing of diesels in my previous role I as aware of some "discrepancies" that were always suspicious to the Japanese.

Is this the end of diesel in small passenger cars?......I think so.

Will VW North America survive?...... I think not.

The fines, likely class action from owners, buy-backs and recall costs will run and run and run. And then what happens in other countries fine them too.

Staggering....the biggest automotive fraud I can remember.

[tk111]

Modern day smog pump..... just saying ?

[Norm]

With that much money at stake, there will obviously be plenty of finger pointing.  I wouldn't be surprised if the company turns on itself and starts going after individuals. 

But, they do need to stay in business and need to weather this.  At the end of the day their vehicles are still quality vehicles. 

[Tit]

Mine wasn't a quality vehicle. It was the most unreliable car I've ever owned.

Im watching this with amusement.

[Peter M]

Future business management textbook example of "groupthink" at its worst.

Future economic management textbook example of how to destroy shareholder value.

 

However is this any worse than GM and the 126 people that died from the faulty ignition switch debacle that went on for over a decade or just another example of known risks being played off against commercial gain?

 

[tazzieman]

Even my 924 with a few VW bits is embarrased

[eoghanroe]

$6 billion put aside to remedy the problem

Despite what he says Martin Winterkorn will be ousted, and he'll take a few others with him.

[ANF]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/22/business/international/vw-volkswagen-emissions-explainer.html

Does it affect other VW brands - Audi, Skoda, Porsche!!??

[Coastr]

I get that they broke the rules while other companies probably stuck to the spirit of the rules, thus gaining an advantage and this should not go unpunished.

but really, what are we talking about here?  How far over the standards are the cars? Are we to abandon cars that miss stringent targets by ten percent?

unlike the GM ignition switch issues, nobody has died, been injured or even suffered financially in any way.  It would be stupid to try and drive VW out of business over this, given the contributions they have made to the automotive industry.

ill also bet they were not the only ones with their hand in the till.  I assume power train engineers move between companies frequently and associate often enough for this type of 'test defeat' trick to be used .

We are all guilty of supporting this - how many people like bimodal exhausts which  are designed explicitly to pass noise drive by tests?  The problem is the regime of tests instead of using data collected from the field.  

[Hounddub]

The levels of NOx are seen to be over "40 times" the limits. This is massive!

Although diesel is proven to have reduced C02 over gasoline technology the simple fact is that the carbon monoxide, N0x and particulates emitted by modern diesels are the really bad ones. These produce the haze and smog resulting directly to human respiratory issues. This is why the Euro 6 regulations are so strict. 

This is compounds the VW issues globally. Not only have they acted fraudulently to "beat the test", but as a result their actions have deliberately affected air quality.

This will run and run and run......VW Nth America is certainly headed for Chapter 11.

 

 

[ANF]

The stuff that comes out of a diesel exhaust is nasty - now classed as carcinogenic by the WHO (the reason I will not own a diesel!) - so while the ozone may be better off with diesel engines life forms will not. So VW cheating has the potential to be quite harmful depending on how far they bent the rules.....

Not by a small amount it seems...

"The diesel cars were programmed to sense when emissions were being tested and to turn on equipment that reduced emissions, according to United States officials. At other times, the cars had better fuel economy and performance, but produced as much as 40 times the allowed amount of nitrogen oxide, a pollutant that can contribute to respiratory problems including asthma, bronchitis and emphysema."

 

^ beat me to it!

[Hounddub]

This is a good read. Seems that the genesis of this for VW is from over 10 years ago.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/volkswagen-diesel-emissions/

[Norm]

Mine wasn't a quality vehicle. It was the most unreliable car I've ever owned.

Im watching this with amusement.

Interesting. 

We have a VW Tiguan as 'mums' car and it been reliable, but as a car and from what i've heard about VW, I always felt it was over rated.  I just thought we had the cheaper VW and that Golfs and the like were a better car. 

Regarding this issue, luckily no one buys a P because they feel it's better for the environment! 

Would it be fair to suspect Audi run a similar ECU..?  

[Tit]

 Audi. Skoda. Seat.  All possible.

I bet VW aren't the only brand doing this kind of thing.

Interesting. 

We have a VW Tiguan as 'mums' car and it been reliable, but as a car and from what i've heard about VW, I always felt it was over rated.  I just thought we had the cheaper VW and that Golfs and the like were a better car. 

Regarding this issue, luckily no one buys a P because they feel it's better for the environment! 

Would it be fair to suspect Audi run a similar ECU..?  

[turboT]

Thankfully I bought this..

[Harvs11]

I bought a VW (not diesel)  I feel a little bit dirty. 

[Mike737]

I bought a VW (not diesel)  I feel a little bit dirty. 

I think you're now one of the ones saving the company from going completely bankrupt

[eoghanroe]

Winterkorn has resigned. Surprise surprise.

[Harvs11]

I think you're now one of the ones saving the company from going completely bankrupt

Don't tell my boss 

 

[turboT]

share price dropped by 30%. Probably will have to sell off Porsche to the Indians to make payroll. Hang on to your 'pre Deli' metal work!

[Coastr]

At some point it will make a wise buy.  The fine won't break the company, and they still sell a crapload of non-diesel cars.

sell the rumour, buy the fact as it goes.  Or is it the other way around?

the whole thing is a sorry insight into the absolute uselessness of government outfits like the EPA.  I can just imagine the intellect deficit between your average power train engineer and an EPA official.

I still think it's a beat up.  Even at 40 times the mandated Nox level over 11 m engines, it's not a great deal of pollution.  Probably about the same amount as how much 1 car carrier punches out en route from Germany to here.

[Hounddub]

At some point it will make a wise buy.  The fine won't break the company, and they still sell a crapload of non-diesel cars.

sell the rumour, buy the fact as it goes.  Or is it the other way around?

the whole thing is a sorry insight into the absolute uselessness of government outfits like the EPA.  I can just imagine the intellect deficit between your average power train engineer and an EPA official.

I still think it's a beat up.  Even at 40 times the mandated Nox level over 11 m engines, it's not a great deal of pollution.  Probably about the same amount as how much 1 car carrier punches out en route from Germany to here.

you can't be serious Coastr.......Really?

it doesn't who makes the rules, every car company has to abide by them. VW has opening committed fraud in installing defeat devices.

VW is the only company to deploy the Urea based SCR technology where every other company uses catalytic converter type technology. They simply chose to switch off the mitigation features under road use to increase performance and likely reduce service costs through not having to replace the Urea tanks.

It's fraud....plain and simple and they will be hammered.

 

 

[Mike737]

News.com.au is now speculating a total of $77b in fines worldwide. 

[Redracn]

This is just a beat up. Every manufacture optimises their engine and software to pass the emissions drive test. If emmisions are higher when the engine is operated outside of the test range than that just shows the current drive test is inadequate which is the real problem. If you drive your VW diesel or any car as the test thinks you should drive it then you will get the published results. If you are having fun then the odds are your car is nowhere near meeting any emmision standards. When the lid comes completely of this can of worms all manufactures and even the standard setting organizations/goverments will have more than egg on their faces. So let the blame game begin. Emission testing has always been a feel good con.

[Coastr]

you can't be serious Coastr.......Really?

it doesn't who makes the rules, every car company has to abide by them. VW has opening committed fraud in installing defeat devices.

VW is the only company to deploy the Urea based SCR technology where every other company uses catalytic converter type technology. They simply chose to switch off the mitigation features under road use to increase performance and likely reduce service costs through not having to replace the Urea tanks.

It's fraud....plain and simple and they will be hammered.

 

 

Of course I'm serious.  I'm not exculpating VW here, I'm saying that the EPA tests are easily fooled and the agency is clearly incompetent (across a number of areas, not in the least the recent river poisoning)  They set a series of tests that are easily defeated and wonder why *all* the car companies find simple workarounds for all their regs.    If they were serious about reducing emissions they'd be sampling data from real world use rather than running dinky little tests.  The commercial gains from cheating on the tests are massive and then they act surprised that someone *outside their department* working by themselves found out cheating was going on.

The way some people in the media are carrying on, you'd swear VW actually harmed people.  This is not a GM ignition switch case, it's just going over the mandated emissions in non-test mode.  Even over a large amount of engines it's not that much in the scheme of things, especially compared to other major-polluting industrial processes.  Of course they shouldn't get away with it, but the fine is not going to be that big, well, at least it shouldn't.

The reason it won't get silly is because, at that level, trade diplomacy will get involved.  Lots and lots of people could lose their jobs over a government fine...for what?  It's out of proportion.  It will get settled.  The US government will want to extract it's pound of flesh but it will get toned down.  People will lose their jobs and VW will continue making cars.

It's as stupid as the government action on Microsoft to unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows.  A lot of posturing and making noises and nobody was actually harmed.  Nowadays try and remove Safari from your iPhone or Chrome from your Android device...oh, you can't.