Imported British 911s

[Joel33]

Well I'm glad I asked the question with all the great thoughts it provoked, and the helpful tips. 

Consensus seems to be UK imports are definitely worth considering provided a thorough PPI is done with careful attention to underneath. 

Can corrosion from salt be a problem in engine bay? 

Thanks to one and all for the tips. 

[LeeM]

In a word, yes

Any corrosion anywhere needs attention, yet you'd have to drop the engine to do it properly in the bay

[DJM]

On the salt issue, I once saw a UK import 997.2 on a hoist at Cairns, maybe 5 or 6 year old car.  They were doing an underside "makeover" - replacing corroded nuts, bolts. Amazing to see paint stripped off and surface pitting and very clear rusty sections on other components like brake lines and calipers, suspension components.  They showed me because they were in shock how bad it was for a young car.  They mentioned it's not only salt but many UK cars are parked at the kerb overnight so never dry out in winter.  Their challenge was how to ensure seams, crevices etc were properly cleaned and sealed as well as the exposed bits. PPI PPI PPI

On the import value issue, I once owned a 964 C2 that was dry climate South Africa delivered and brought to Perth by a passionate owner when he emigrated.  Factory RHD, same spec as Oz, no more risk of rust etc than here.  Yet it was still considered inferior.  Maybe today it would be different - manual C2s are hard to get so buyers would pay much closer to Oz money but it still was commented on when it came back up for sale not long ago.  Frankly, it's group think gone mad.  Buy on condition as many others have said.

[Whytar]

Just buy on condition like any other car. I'm about to import my 2010 997.2 that I bought 14 months ago. The car was delivered and lived in the south (Windsor) so minimal exposure to salted roads and was garaged by the first owner. In the last 14 months I have basically had the car in storage and it's never seen a drop of rain. The only time it's been wet is the 5-6 times I've washed it. Underneath everything is like new and still shines, so probably better than most Aussie 997.2's on the road. 

Im not planning to sell mine so the value in Australia is irrelevant to me, but having said that, knowing the condition my car is in I would certainly not discount a UK delivered car at 10-20% less than a similar Aus delivered car. More so than in Australia, there are many many pampered cars in the UK and it's just a matter of waiting for the right car to come along. 

[SteveC]

Tempting proposition but the surface price advantage does not justify the whole picture be it the repairs that arise, the reduced attractiveness to prospective buyers down the track and the reduced resale.

Porsche Brighton had a Black 997 Turbo UK import with 23000 miles where the owner had saved 20k on purchase but was having difficulty stomaching the 15k and mounting bill PCB was calculating thus far and hadn't finished the work. Its not like old 911s were you have to replace sheets of metal but every nut / joint / ball / arm / carrier that needs to be replaced due to salt damage over time. Perhaps would be worth calling the Porsche dealers to see what they think. Full PPI was done when bringing the car over but there was simply too much too replace and the more they looked the more was worth doing 'while they were down there'. 

Not a pleasant place to be. 

The only motivational driver here is price, and everybody has a different appetite for risk.

[Coastr]

Rust rust rusty rust.

it never sleeps.

Modern cars are quite well sealed up in the body.

They also have a lot of connectors and hardware under the guards and engine bay.

source : my uk import.   Which has even developed a rusty fan nut and has surface corrosion on the aluminium suspension arms.  And mine is squeaky clean underneath and lived in Kent, which rarely gets salted.

it doesn't affect the driving one bit, but it sure is there.  It doesn't affect all uk cars but most are driven all weather and lots are parked outside.

you pay more for dry climate cars but you get more when you sell and there is less to fix.

Horses for courses as the saying goes.

[Mike-S]

Horses for courses indeed. I have my UK Range Rover Sport here in Melbs, it's now spent as long here in Oz as it did in the UK (bar a 4 month excursion to Thailand and Vietnam when 6 months old) and it's not too bad at all, bit of surface rust on the chassis but that's it. Considering I drove it mega miles through 4 serious winters and it left the UK in the middle of a brutal winter, the few rusty nuts it has aren't a huge concern !!

Our Spitfire on the other hand, I'm happy it was completely restored just before we left. The rust in that was ridiculous so it's all been sorted. 5 years in and it's still like brand new.

Something from the 70's / 80's from the UK, I'd look for rust (but it wouldn't worry me too much). Something newer than that, nah, it'll mostly be surface rust on nuts and bolts. Not to be worried about. It's does make me chuckle when I read about this fear of UK cars here...

[raafrebel]

Well said! I do not understand it either Simon, if I was in the market for a 911 an import would be strongly considered. I seriously thought about importing one a few years ago......

they all come from factory in Germany so they are all imports.... 

only difference is compliance plate. silly how that de values a car buy 20%. when I'm ready to buy another 911 997 , i will be looking closely at importing one. I've imported over a dozen cars from USA and its an easy process 

[SimonN]

they all come from factory in Germany so they are all imports.... 

only difference is compliance plate. silly how that de values a car buy 20%. when I'm ready to buy another 911 997 , i will be looking closely at importing one. I've imported over a dozen cars from USA and its an easy process 

Interested to know how you import such a new car. I thought that any car after 1988 was next to impossible to import, unless as a personal import having owned and used it for a year.

[LeeM]

they all come from factory in Germany so they are all imports.... 

only difference is compliance plate. silly how that de values a car buy 20%.

 

Its also completely ridiculous when you buy an imported car from interstate that has been registered in Australia for 17 years, yet you have to go through so much BS just to get rego in another state! 

 I.d inspection, then send letters to vehicle standards so that they can tell you what you already know, as its on their website, wait 4 weeks to receive said letter giving me the ok to book a roadworthy inspection. Then being financially raped to have that done, and if they fail it, you have to spend money to fix pathetic little problems that have NO bearing on safety for the occupants or public, rebook an inspection at another cost, and be dictated to by f.....g nazi's whose sole reason for living is to piss people off.

 I've waited nearly 3 months for this crap, as its too hard for these arrogant, pig headed muppets to do everything in one go in one facility in one day.  If my car fails for one tiny oil leak, and as much as it will kill me being my dream car, I guarantee its for sale, and will buy a couple of SA rego'd 944's and an MGB GT rally car, as I've had enough

When it was I.D'd weeks ago, a Victorian Hyundai Excel with more dents that a golf ball, different coloured panels and a complete heap of shit was just passed and the owners on their way in 5 minutes, yet I have a nice but not perfect Porsche, but because its an imported one, it took 30 minutes and some wanker to tell me how they do things, and I have to go through all this bullshit. 

Rant over, carry on

 

 

[raafrebel]

Interested to know how you import such a new car. I thought that any car after 1988 was next to impossible to import, unless as a personal import having owned and used it for a year.

Ive imported over 15 cars from USA.. its easy if its right hand drive, but cars of left hand , have to be over 30 years as classified as classics..

I'm thinking of importing a 997 from the UK next year. or even a 991. Ive seen really nice low km 997 "s" manuals for around 25,000 pounds.by time you get it landed in australia with taxes, should owe you around 55k AU. only costs around 5k to import including the taxes

[SimonN]

Ive imported over 15 cars from USA.. its easy if its right hand drive, but cars of left hand , have to be over 30 years as classified as classics..

I'm thinking of importing a 997 from the UK next year. or even a 991. Ive seen really nice low km 997 "s" manuals for around 25,000 pounds.by time you get it landed in australia with taxes, should owe you around 55k AU. only costs around 5k to import including the taxes

I understand the old cars and have done it myself. I also understand how to minimise tax and other costs  However, the 997 and 991 are not old cars. How do you get that into the country?

[michel]

Mustang VIN 

[JB]

My take is having all my family in the UK with P cars the more you can find out about the history the better. Even getting in contact with previous owners of possible is a good thing. There are some good cars out of there that have been looked after more so than in Aus. However the generalisation is yes I would say the majority have seen salt roads.

in saying that, find one that an enthusiast or someone who cares for their cars and you will be fine. My cousins 4S is taken off the road every winter stripped and detailed layed up on bricks and only recommissined when summer comes around. Has done 20k miles since 08 and is pristine. I know of others in similar situations as well as ones that are steamed cleaned underneath every year.

again like anything comes down to history and ownership and get them thoroughly tested. Same car, same production line.

cheers

[raafrebel]

I understand the old cars and have done it myself. I also understand how to minimise tax and other costs  However, the 997 and 991 are not old cars. How do you get that into the country?

as far as i understand, its no different to importing older cars..

the only reason i never imported newer cars from USA is that i didn't want to pay 25-30 k to get a modern car converted to right hand drive.
The rules have recently changed as far as i know, and there is less red tap for newer cars. I use a good importer and they take care of everything and just give me 1 invoice for all in costs.

the import fees are around 3k for a standard car , then you have to pay GST on the total amount of purchase costs. I think its a lot easier in NSW than other states..

the last car i imported a couple years ago , was a 1970 big block corvette, i paid 27k USD, and the total shipping costs was $5200. that included shipping, GST, stamp duty, insurance and even transfers and local pick ups in USA. Just call shipping company ( there is hundreds of them) in australia and they can tell you everything involving charges.

[ANF]

https://infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/quiz/used-manufactured.aspx

The RAWS scheme handles newer cars but I think to comply the car must not have been sold here new.

Anything else has to still be prior to 1989. You can get discretionary approval, whatever that means.....

[SimonN]

as far as i understand, its no different to importing older cars..

 

That's what I thought you might say. Best of luck to you, but I think you should do some research, because, outside of a few very special situations (see below), I do not believe you can. If you have found a loophole, there are a lot of people who would be very grateful. 

The ways you can bring in cars built after 1st Jan 1989 and keep it in the country indefinately

1. If you have owned and used the car for more than 12 months.

2. Letter of Compliance. - this route is really used by manufacturers for bringing in low volume cars. To issue a letter of compliance, you need to hold an identification Plate Approval for the particular car. In the case of the 997, nobody holds one of them. In the case of the 991, only Porsche themselves hold one and they will not issue anybody a letter of compliance because it undermines their own business.

3. RAWS - This allows certain registered businesses, known as Registered Automotive Workshops to import cars on the Special and Enthusiast Vehicle Scheme. Currently, the only Posrches on the scheme are the Carrera GT and the 918 Spider. In theory, you can apply to become  RAW and then apply to get a particular car on the list, but teh costs involved are only worth it of you are going to bring in a substantial number of cars (up to 100 max) and you are an established business already. If there is already a supply of the cars in this country, it is considered not worth trying to do it.

4. Discretionary approval - To stand any chance, you really need to be able to show that there is no other way of getting that car in Oz and that there is good reason why the government should allow it in on a one off basis. You stand zero chance of that happening with a car that is available in Australia.

5. Special purpose vehicles - this covers things like fire tenders, garbage trucks, ambulances, cranes etc that are more than just fitted to an existing chassis

6. Test and evaluation vehicles - this allows manufacturers to bring prototypes for testing, which they often do in the NT. 

7. Rally and race vehicles and support vehicles - this is to allow vehicles that are otherwise not available in Oz to be brought in.

Other than the above, there doesn't seem to be any other way. I have spoken to many specialists, including dealers, RAWS and Porsche themselves. 

I keep living in hope that I have missed something and that is why I get interested every time somebody says they think they can do it. I have followed up a number of leads but in every case, there has been a reason why the vehicle is in the country that doesn't help the cause.

Everything is due to change with a new set of laws coming in soon. I thought it was going to be Jan 2017, but I heard recently that it might not be until Jan 2018. When those rules come in, we should be able to bring in any car that complies with the ADR's and which was/is sold over here. That is going to have a huge impact on the market and potentially it will drive down the cost of new Porsches. Taking current prices, it is currently estimated that you could bring in a new car, exactly the same spec, for between 5-10% cheaper. When this law change was brought into the UK, manufacturers argued it would create 2 classes of car with"grey imports" being worth significantly less. What ended up happening was the manufacturers had to cut new car prices to stop those parallel imports. We can only wait and hope, unless you know different

[raafrebel]

I will make a call in next couple days and PM you. 

I have never bought a car from UK, but I've bought back many cars and bikes from USA. I will give my contact a call and find out some more

[Mike-S]

I will make a call in next couple days and PM you. 

I have never bought a car from UK, but I've bought back many cars and bikes from USA. I will give my contact a call and find out some more

I'd be interested as well. My knowledge is the same as Simon, pre 89 isn't an issue but anything newer than that can't be done unless you've owned it for a year and been in the UK with it for that period. I'm looking forward to the change in law, but I'm also not holding my breath, I can see the government capitulating to the motor trade.

[Dreamr]

That's what I thought you might say. Best of luck to you, but I think you should do some research, because, outside of a few very special situations (see below), I do not believe you can. If you have found a loophole, there are a lot of people who would be very grateful. 

The ways you can bring in cars built after 1st Jan 1989 and keep it in the country indefinately

1. If you have owned and used the car for more than 12 months.

2. Letter of Compliance. - this route is really used by manufacturers for bringing in low volume cars. To issue a letter of compliance, you need to hold an identification Plate Approval for the particular car. In the case of the 997, nobody holds one of them. In the case of the 991, only Porsche themselves hold one and they will not issue anybody a letter of compliance because it undermines their own business.

3. RAWS - This allows certain registered businesses, known as Registered Automotive Workshops to import cars on the Special and Enthusiast Vehicle Scheme. Currently, the only Posrches on the scheme are the Carrera GT and the 918 Spider. In theory, you can apply to become  RAW and then apply to get a particular car on the list, but teh costs involved are only worth it of you are going to bring in a substantial number of cars (up to 100 max) and you are an established business already. If there is already a supply of the cars in this country, it is considered not worth trying to do it.

4. Discretionary approval - To stand any chance, you really need to be able to show that there is no other way of getting that car in Oz and that there is good reason why the government should allow it in on a one off basis. You stand zero chance of that happening with a car that is available in Australia.

5. Special purpose vehicles - this covers things like fire tenders, garbage trucks, ambulances, cranes etc that are more than just fitted to an existing chassis

6. Test and evaluation vehicles - this allows manufacturers to bring prototypes for testing, which they often do in the NT. 

7. Rally and race vehicles and support vehicles - this is to allow vehicles that are otherwise not available in Oz to be brought in.

Other than the above, there doesn't seem to be any other way. I have spoken to many specialists, including dealers, RAWS and Porsche themselves. 

I keep living in hope that I have missed something and that is why I get interested every time somebody says they think they can do it. I have followed up a number of leads but in every case, there has been a reason why the vehicle is in the country that doesn't help the cause.

Everything is due to change with a new set of laws coming in soon. I thought it was going to be Jan 2017, but I heard recently that it might not be until Jan 2018. When those rules come in, we should be able to bring in any car that complies with the ADR's and which was/is sold over here. That is going to have a huge impact on the market and potentially it will drive down the cost of new Porsches. Taking current prices, it is currently estimated that you could bring in a new car, exactly the same spec, for between 5-10% cheaper. When this law change was brought into the UK, manufacturers argued it would create 2 classes of car with"grey imports" being worth significantly less. What ended up happening was the manufacturers had to cut new car prices to stop those parallel imports. We can only wait and hope, unless you know different

The "talk about town" is that manufacturers such as Porsche are going to stop dealers selling their cars to people wanting to export them.

They have such a market here with such high mark-ups that they would have to do everything to protect their interests as well as their dealers.

We are the only ones stupid enough to pay such high prices for cars .... why would Porsche want to ruin their set up by letting their overseas dealers sell to Aussies ....

[Mike-S]

That "talk" will be complete horse shit, I've heard that before from back in the day when the "euro imports" were popular back in the UK. The trade tried their hardest to stop it, but as Simon mentioned all that happened was they had to become more competitive, so I'd like to see them try it and not be implicated in being anti-competitive. The dealers will make more on servicing them than selling new, it's like shooting themselves in the foot.

Selling them to a business intent on exporting is one thing, that business would be looking to claim back the 20% VAT. Selling to an individual is completely different, it's unlikely they would be able to get back the VAT on a new purchase and I doubt very much that were talking high numbers of cars.

[SimonN]

As Mike says, the "talk" is BS. When the rules change, and I believe they will because there is no longer a local car manufacturing business to protect, there will be some interesting situations regarding "country of origin".

I haven't checked this for some time, simply because I have had no need, but when the rules changed back in the day for the UK, we heard all the same shit, which never happened. You used to be able to order a UK country code car from a dealer in Germany. So you could ask for a C16 car and get one, because the code refers to build spec, not where it is delievered. I believe that even now, you should be able to go into a German Porsche dealer and order a Australian country code car (C23) and the code should appear in the documents. Then we will start having some really interesting debates. Does it matter where a C23 coded car is delivered? Remember Porsche actually offer a program that allows you to collect from the factory. It's very popular in the USA. Collect your car, tour Europe and they will ship it back home, all with Porsche blessing. Once the rules change here, we may well begin to see that. In short, I see a future where this whole "Oz delivered" view has to change. The good thing is, it will make our new Porsches cheaper.

[LeeM]

 I can't see that happening here

You'd THINK it would happen, but this is Australia mate. The powers that be will ensure its a pain in the arse to do anything off of your own back

[Mike-S]

Jaguar Land Rover offer a similar delivery service, it's just not very well publicised or known yet as it only started last year. You can take delivery of your new car at the Solihull factory, do whatever you want with it then take it back and they'll ship it to your home dealer, wherever in the world that happens to be.