GT3 Death Rattle ...

[StevepGT3]

 

I given the racket it makes and the fact that my engine guy doesn't like it, not sure it's harmless. Anything bashing that hard can't be good.  

 

 

The newer ones don't make the racket.  My 2011 Cup is remarkably subdued in that dept. 

Never a truer word spoken 

Well, well, well. 

Have just received the data on the over rev.

04's have 2 rev ranges. 1 and 2. 

Total engine operating hours logged as 735.6

The previous owner loved the limiter - range 1 ignitions report when it's hit the limiter (8200) Number of ignitions in range 1 - 65535.   The last one that went there was at 731.9 hours.

Drum roll ....... Range 2 ignition - which is over 8800 (remember, the rev limit is 8200) was 586 ignitions. Not long. But long enough. And speaking to the guys who should know, to chase that sort of internal carnage, it would have had to be well into the high 9's. 

The kicker?  The big one happened at 707.3 hours. 

So, it was driven with all the internal damage for oh, let me do the maths .... 28 HOURS!!  2 hours of which was me before I couldn't stand it any more and had the thing looked at  

Little wonder at the other damage given all that crap was floating around.  

So, now I know. 

oops

[P-Kay]

 

I given the racket it makes and the fact that my engine guy doesn't like it, not sure it's harmless. Anything bashing that hard can't be good.  

 

 

The newer ones don't make the racket.  My 2011 Cup is remarkably subdued in that dept. 

Never a truer word spoken 

Well, well, well. 

Have just received the data on the over rev.

04's have 2 rev ranges. 1 and 2. 

Total engine operating hours logged as 735.6

The previous owner loved the limiter - range 1 ignitions report when it's hit the limiter (8200) Number of ignitions in range 1 - 65535.   The last one that went there was at 731.9 hours.

Drum roll ....... Range 2 ignition - which is over 8800 (remember, the rev limit is 8200) was 586 ignitions. Not long. But long enough. And speaking to the guys who should know, to chase that sort of internal carnage, it would have had to be well into the high 9's. 

The kicker?  The big one happened at 707.3 hours. 

So, it was driven with all the internal damage for oh, let me do the maths .... 28 HOURS!!  2 hours of which was me before I couldn't stand it any more and had the thing looked at  

Little wonder at the other damage given all that crap was floating around.  

So, now I know. 

FUCH ME?!! 

[Skidmarks]

FUCH ME?!! 

That was pretty much my reaction as well!

[spiller]

Good summary Skidmarks. Like you said, 584 ignitions isn't much (check over on rennlist and see some of the overrev numbers of cars on there ) but I'd imagine it was well past redline if it chewed bits up. Maybe not a money shift but definitely an overzealous downshift at the track? Either way, good that you caught it before old mezger threw a leg out of bed. 

EDIT: If you are curious as to exactly how long it spent past 8800 rpm...

586/3 = 195 engine revolutions

195/8800 = 0.022 minutes x 60 = 1.3 seconds spent above 8800 RPM. Not long at all.

[Skidmarks]

Good summary Skidmarks. Like you said, 584 ignitions isn't much (check over on rennlist and see some of the overrev numbers of cars on there ) but I'd imagine it was well past redline if it chewed bits up. Maybe not a money shift but definitely an overzealous downshift at the track? Either way, good that you caught it before old mezger threw a leg out of bed. 

EDIT: If you are curious as to exactly how long it spent past 8800 rpm...

586/3 = 195 engine revolutions

195/8800 = 0.022 minutes x 60 = 1.3 seconds spent above 8800 RPM. Not long at all.

Thanks. The $33,000.00 + question is how far above 8800 as 1.3 seconds was obviously enough time.

[Joshstix]

At least you don't have to worry about level 1 over revs any more. 

 

Pretty sure that ECU is 16bit and 65535 is the limit to a 16bit value so you won't see that number change in future.

 

[Peter M]

I given the racket it makes and the fact that my engine guy doesn't like it, not sure it's harmless. Anything bashing that hard can't be good.  

I agree no one likes the noise but I still suggest it's harmless in the scheme of things.  The noise would be from the internal plunger of the lifter bottoming out on the internal stop just like it is designed to do until the cavity fills with sufficient oil that it can be pressurised by the closing internal check valve.

Given the lifter is preloaded against the cam lobe anyway so it's not clanging against the lobe, full valve lift is not being achieved so the spring pressure is less, engine speed is low at start up and it only occurs for proportionally negligible period of total engine run time I still suggest its something we need not worry about.

Not trying to be pedantic Skids, just factual as I think there are more legitimate fears to harbour!

cheers

[spiller]

At least you don't have to worry about level 1 over revs any more. 

 

Pretty sure that ECU is 16bit and 65535 is the limit to a 16bit value so you won't see that number change in future.

 

Level 1 means nothing anyway

 

[Skidmarks]

I agree no one likes the noise but I still suggest it's harmless in the scheme of things.  The noise would be from the internal plunger of the lifter bottoming out on the internal stop just like it is designed to do until the cavity fills with sufficient oil that it can be pressurised by the closing internal check valve.

Given the lifter is preloaded against the cam lobe anyway so it's not clanging against the lobe, full valve lift is not being achieved so the spring pressure is less, engine speed is low at start up and it only occurs for proportionally negligible period of total engine run time I still suggest its something we need not worry about.

Not trying to be pedantic Skids, just factual as I think there are more legitimate fears to harbour!

cheers

Thanks Peter.  Yes, agreed .. There are bigger issues.  Like, can I hold it flat through the Hay Shed?  The answer is YES!!

Level 1 means nothing anyway

 

Too right!  If you're not on the limiter, you're not trying!!!!

At least you don't have to worry about level 1 over revs any more. 

 

Pretty sure that ECU is 16bit and 65535 is the limit to a 16bit value so you won't see that number change in future.

 

Is that English?  I did humanities at Uni so I have no idea what any of that means but it sounds like I'll live on in blissful ignorance. 

[Pork Chops]

Hey Skids, good to see how it all panned out, assuming the PO picked up the bill.  Might have worked in your favour if so, as the big overrev happened before the 'fateful' last drive which appears wasn't the root cause of the failure.  With the bearing wear and possible lack of servicing it's a much better position to be in now with a brand spankers engine.

Interesting your comments on the start up rattle as I've never experienced such a thing and my car has been laid up for many (too) long periods over the time I've owned it.  No doubt I'll now 'hear' it, even if it's not there so thanks for that! .

GT3 are the shizzle.

[Skidmarks]

I have the 04 GT3CS back!!!

Off to the dyno this afternoon for the final trimming of the fueling.

I picked it up last Friday and have laid another 500k's on it since.

First run on the dyno was disappointing - hit a wall at 4000.  Then we worked out that the mufflers had failed.  Off to Melbourne Performance for a new "Starr" muffler (with cats of course - they're really small though so you cant see them ...) and hey presto.

Even pre adjustment the thing just howls.  A big step up from the '99 and I'll do a little back to back at the track day I think ...

[edgy]

I have the 04 GT3CS back!!!

Off to the dyno this afternoon for the final trimming of the fueling.

I picked it up last Friday and have laid another 500k's on it since.

First run on the dyno was disappointing - hit a wall at 4000.  Then we worked out that the mufflers had failed.  Off to Melbourne Performance for a new "Starr" muffler (with cats of course - they're really small though so you cant see them ...) and hey presto.

Even pre adjustment the thing just howls.  A big step up from the '99 and I'll do a little back to back at the track day I think ...

Any other updates to the motor mate? or is it just a refresh? 

 

 

[Skidmarks]

Any other updates to the motor mate? or is it just a refresh? 

 

 

if you call a full rebuilding using new pistons and barrels a refresh then yes!

Now for the numbers. 

301 kw at flywheel. That's 408 bhp in the old money. 

Happy days. 

And that's with a bit more fuel in it than is needed so if we trimmed it a bit, there'd be more but hey, 997 Cup power I'll take. And grunty at that. 

Also, it was a bit of sublime to ridiculous... dropped the GT3 back to the shop for a little bit of final work and left in the 356!!

Have to say though, the 356 rides better.  Brakes? Not so good. Grunt? Same. Smiles?  Loads. 

[spiller]

Good to hear. Don't be afraid to throw a little trackday comparison between street car and cup car  in there while you're at it, some of us might be interested! 

[Skidmarks]

Good to hear. Don't be afraid to throw a little trackday comparison between street car and cup car  in there while you're at it, some of us might be interested! 

The Cup Car is on the market!  For the first time ever, some race cars have gone up in value.  The 2011 is in demand now and we're a chance to get more than we paid.  But, if we still have it, I'll bring it to Sandown.

The other Cup Car that will make money in the future is the 996.  Raw and hand built in the race department.

[spiller]

The Cup Car is on the market!  For the first time ever, some race cars have gone up in value.  The 2011 is in demand now and we're a chance to get more than we paid.  But, if we still have it, I'll bring it to Sandown.

The other Cup Car that will make money in the future is the 996.  Raw and hand built in the race department.

They are finally following the European market where they've been up for a while. Someone I spoke to locally suggested that 2011s might go down a little in 12 months when 991s become eligible for GT3 Cup Challenge. I guess everyone has an opinion on this stuff!

Do you still have your 996 Cup?

 

[Skidmarks]

They are finally following the European market where they've been up for a while. Someone I spoke to locally suggested that 2011s might go down a little in 12 months when 991s become eligible for GT3 Cup Challenge. I guess everyone has an opinion on this stuff!

Do you still have your 996 Cup?

 

No, sold the 996 a long while ago for a 2006 Cup which I raced until 2010.  The '11 is actually faster than the 991 on some tracks and not a whole lot slower on the rest.  The '11's are less fragile in the drivetrain and also cheaper to fix if you get a knock (small or big).

That said, race cars generally head south in price as soon as the new spec becomes The Thing. 

[James P]

The other Cup Car that will make money in the future is the 996.  Raw and hand built in the race department.

Defiantly raw & rewarding to drive 

[Skidmarks]

2011 Cup now sold.  

And for something completely left field ... sold it for exactly the amount I purchased it for ... mark it in your calendar 

AS for the GT3 CS, finallly isolated that effing noise in the back.  Even since I bought it it had what sounded like a disc contacting a rotor "squeal".  Only happened above 50 kph and only when driven - would not do it on the hoist.

Had the young bloke at the workshop lying on the floor of the car (passenger seat removed) and isolated it to outer rear. No groaning sound so can't be a bearing ...

Out comes the drive shaft and we fit another.  Noise still there.

Flip the driveshafts around. Still there.

Check in the handbrake mechanism - found some crap, cleaned and reassembled. Still there.

OK, lets pull the upright apart.  Checked the bearing.  Hmmmm.  Makes a funnny noise ... but looks OK.  Offer up a new bearing.

Noise gone.  Farkin cars!!  

I picked up the Lava Lamp the other day.  What a weapon.  And so practical.  Loaded it up with 3 bags, Lego, shoes, 2 backpacks, briefcase, 3 bags of groceries and headed off for the hols.  OK, it was packed to the gunwales and i had to shove a few loose items through the roll cage to get them in the back but hey, small price to pay etc etc 

First impressions ... feels a lot like the MK 1 GT3.  Raw, tight, noisy, gearbox roll lover, loves a rev.  Makes me appreciate how special the Mk1 really is. 

[Pork Chops]

^ congrats on all fronts Skiddy. Interested to know what your noise sounds like as there is something similar going on in my GT3. Very very feint, been there forever, not sure it's above 50, think it's from the rear, but they way you described yours resonates with me.

sounds like you'll have a very merry christmas. 

[Skidmarks]

^ congrats on all fronts Skiddy. Interested to know what your noise sounds like as there is something similar going on in my GT3. Very very feint, been there forever, not sure it's above 50, think it's from the rear, but they way you described yours resonates with me.

sounds like you'll have a very merry christmas. 

It sounded like a metallic clinking and was speed dependant and went away under 50 kmph. Was loud enough to notice even after the new muffler. The closest I can describe is the rubbing of a rotor on a dust/stone shield.  Just a light touch. Worth having the bearings looked at or just replaced. I did both sides. 

[Skidmarks]

^ congrats on all fronts Skiddy. Interested to know what your noise sounds like as there is something similar going on in my GT3. Very very feint, been there forever, not sure it's above 50, think it's from the rear, but they way you described yours resonates with me.

sounds like you'll have a very merry christmas. 

Wheels bearing. Changed both rears.  Noise?  What noise?