My Porsche Fund

[Stew F]

Stew, I would not change a thing, i have 2 boys and 3 grandkids and cannot imagine what life would be like without them.

I'm just suggesting that tongue in cheek, and let's face it, it's probably not too far wrong if you want money in a short amount of time without borrowing.

I could have had a Porsche years ago but we kept going into debt to buy houses, looking after my family was more important than cars at the time.

you blokes didnt give me a chance to think about it.  I gathered it was a joke. That's why I let fly with a lol. I have 2 young adult kiddos. Kid tax is as much as posche tax.

 

 

[Steve88]

I really like this thread . I think that anyway you look at your goals you have to apply a certain type of  tunnel vision . Don't want a new iPhone , new jeans , new ....  what ever it is .Want that car.                                 

I`m young , married , 2 x crazy dogs , mortgage , HECS , lease re-payments , Run a small business and hold two jobs ; but for me not having a 911 was never an option . I cleaned toilets , waited tables and did everything in between on top of my normal job . I`m lucky my wife supported me and appreciated that this was such an important mile-stone for me , but i also didn't want this to impact her lifestyle and see her go without as it was purely for me ( not the way I pitched the idea obviously ) so I found a way to increase the cash flow and make it grow .

I really believe is that everyone is willing to do just enough , be the guy that does more than enough until its too much , thats the point that stuff will start to happen . Best of luck with it , I really love the ambition don't loose it and stay hungry .  

[CoSo]

I really like this thread . I think that anyway you look at your goals you have to apply a certain type of  tunnel vision . Don't want a new iPhone , new jeans , new ....  what ever it is .Want that car.                                 

I`m young , married , 2 x crazy dogs , mortgage , HECS , lease re-payments , Run a small business and hold two jobs ; but for me not having a 911 was never an option . I cleaned toilets , waited tables and did everything in between on top of my normal job . I`m lucky my wife supported me and appreciated that this was such an important mile-stone for me , but i also didn't want this to impact her lifestyle and see her go without as it was purely for me ( not the way I pitched the idea obviously ) so I found a way to increase the cash flow and make it grow .

I really believe is that everyone is willing to do just enough , be the guy that does more than enough until its too much , thats the point that stuff will start to happen . Best of luck with it , I really love the ambition don't loose it and stay hungry .  

Thank you, I appreciate that. It's no doubt a long term goal provided it goes according to plan but even the mightiest canyon can be carved by a small river. 

[YellowDieselGolf]

I set up a watch fund a few years ago.  I've always wanted a nice old car, but a nice watch was more realistic.  

 

I have a super thin wallet that doesn't have a change pocket and every time I spend cash, I bank the coins.  Every time I come across unexpected cash (gifts, tax returns, selling things, Christmas bonus), I chuck it in the fund.  Sometimes I even break a twenty instead of spending a five - and bank $15 .  The pay from my Saturday job goes in there too.

 

After a while, I bought a speedmaster. I started saving again.  I realised I can't wear more than one watch at a time and I felt pretty guilty about keeping expensive watches in a drawer so it became a toy fund.  I bought a few toys and it slowly turned into the Porsche fund.

 

I'm not going to lie and say I bought my car with loose change, but it was over 10% - and I wasn't really trying.  You're right with your analogy.  Every little bit helps.

 

It's now the BBS fund.    

[Adam987]

CoSo, 

Firstly best of luck with the path. I bought my first P car at 36, which ironically was earlier this year. I wasn't saving up for it but i was saving up in general. I saw what i believed was a good deal and went for it. I like the fact that you have a list of potential milestones, and Im sure you are a smart enough cookie to realise that reality won't resemble that list in any way shape or form. Be smart about you money, but don't be stingy, don't forget to enjoy life on the way (granted life is quite enjoyable with a P car).

 

 

[wirthO]

@CoSo congrats on your goal.

Similar to the a the stories above, 35 years old myself, my Dad always had Porsche's as a grew up and I guess this is where I got the passion from.  I always loved GT3's and really regret not buying one before the price boom, I had the opportunity too! I remember a black 2007 GT3 in SA for 155k$ a couple of years ago. 

GT4 is an awesome car. It's my garage Queen which I bring out when I can, and not working. Certainly a goal of mine to own a GT car. I hope you can do the same. I hope the below video helps ? and I would stick with aiming for your GT4. 

PS the prices won't be going down despite what some other posts are saying ?

[Tit]

Firstly, if you're putting cars above family, then you need some time with the mirror to ask if you've got your priorities right.  (BTW, it's the wife, not the kids that are expensive).

It's good to have a goal, and it proves you have the most elusive component of getting wealth - discipline.

Some have danced around it here, but the difference between the rich and 'not-rich' is.....the rich buy assets, the 'not-rich' buy 'stuff'.  Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but cars are 'stuff'.

I'd personally encourage my child to obtain the saving 'discipline' when they are young on smaller items. But when they're in the adult world, I'd be encouraging them to use their cash on ASSETS.  Preferably ones that are going to produce cash-flow.  You need to work towards de-couple-ing your time from the dollar up until one day, you realise you have enough cash flow and assets that you can start to buy toys without a material impact on the quality of your life.

For you, I'd say make the Cayman GT4 goal more abstract - like a reward for yourself once you've achieved some level of financial strength. (ie. your business has achieved a milestone that can support your passion).  You'll probably hit your goal sooner than 2017.

(plus along the way your accountant will hopefully find some cheeky tax-happy way to get you some toys)

PS: That stuff I was talking about....is probably sold to you by someone else's asset, making them money by taking it from you...

[CoSo]

Firstly, if you're putting cars above family, then you need some time with the mirror to ask if you've got your priorities right.  (BTW, it's the wife, not the kids that are expensive).

It's good to have a goal, and it proves you have the most elusive component of getting wealth - discipline.

Some have danced around it here, but the difference between the rich and 'not-rich' is.....the rich buy assets, the 'not-rich' buy 'stuff'.  Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but cars are 'stuff'.

I'd personally encourage my child to obtain the saving 'discipline' when they are young on smaller items. But when they're in the adult world, I'd be encouraging them to use their cash on ASSETS.  Preferably ones that are going to produce cash-flow.  You need to work towards de-couple-ing your time from the dollar up until one day, you realise you have enough cash flow and assets that you can start to buy toys without a material impact on the quality of your life.

For you, I'd say make the Cayman GT4 goal more abstract - like a reward for yourself once you've achieved some level of financial strength. (ie. your business has achieved a milestone that can support your passion).  You'll probably hit your goal sooner than 2017.

(plus along the way your accountant will hopefully find some cheeky tax-happy way to get you some toys)

PS: That stuff I was talking about....is probably sold to you by someone else's asset, making them money by taking it from you...

Been internally debating this point ad nauseum ever since Porsche ownership became a serious consideration. 

One barometer I've seen by others is if a personal/selfish purchase can be made for everyone in the household or family i.e. can my fiancee also buy a Porsche or luxury car if I bought one for myself? In that sense it can be hard to argue for. 

My fiancee is very supportive of my decision either way. 

[Coastr]

Kids are way better than cars but much more expensive.  Having kids and a Porsche is the best of all worlds.  

All the good advice here has already been given.  Working hard and extra never fails, and don't buy depreciating trash for fun.

whenever I get tempted to buy something I first visualise having to borrow a trailer to haul it to the dump.  Because that's what happens to most purchases really.  Eventually you find yourself throwing crap out that has been bugging you for years taking up space, making you pay a bigger mortgage than necessary.

and all that stuff, and the credit used to buy it, that's why the guy at the track with the new gt3 doesn't give a crap about his new tyres.  Because you'll be buying him another pair shortly.

[bear924]

I became a Porsche fan age ~13. I purchased my first Porsche, a NA '77 924 in 1996 at the age of 18 for cash. 20 years ago 924s were not expensive however they weren't as cheap as they are now. I kept that car for two years (don't buy a 924 with a four speed box if you do highway driving) and sold it for exactly what I payed for it. I then purchased my '81 924 turbo (1999) and have owned it since that time. I'm now nearly forty and my 924 is still with me, a common thread in my life's journey.  When I purchased the 924 I wasn't a 924 fan... to be honest I considered them the poor man's Porsche however over the years I have come to appreciate the model and the role it played in Porsche's history.  I ramble on about this because I'm of the belief that whatever model you choose, you will find enthusiasts and come to appreciate the car. There is not a Porsche model that doesn't appeal to me on some level....

My other tips for what they are worth:

- If you are like most of us, over the next few years you will have the kids and get the mortgage. If you purchase a Porsche that is not worth heaps you won't feel the need to sell it to pay off the mortgage and do life stuff. It won't need to be your DD as you get older, and you can learn all about Porsche intricacies by tinkering. Personally the tinkering is possibly what I enjoy most about older cars ... accept not everyone is like this though.

- There will always be a Porsche model that in depreciating.. that no one wants. I really didn't like 996s when they first arrived however now they have grown on me. Perhaps because they are the unloved Porsche.  You could easily move into a 996, perhaps DD it for a few years, however when the kids arrive it won't owe you much and you'll have a 911 that you can escape with occasionally. My SC wasn't a loved model when I purchased it, strange how perception does change about what is a 'classic' Porsche.

- Don't blink, otherwise you'll turn 40 and wonder what happened!

[sandy468]

"My SC wasn't a loved model when I purchased it, strange how perception does change about what is a 'classic' Porsche. - Don't blink, otherwise you'll turn 40 and wonder what happened!"

A very true statement and proven further by the increasing interest in 928, 944's and even the lowly924's

[smit2100]

Firstly, if you're putting cars above family, then you need some time with the mirror to ask if you've got your priorities right.  (BTW, it's the wife, not the kids that are expensive).

It's good to have a goal, and it proves you have the most elusive component of getting wealth - discipline.

Some have danced around it here, but the difference between the rich and 'not-rich' is.....the rich buy assets, the 'not-rich' buy 'stuff'.  Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but cars are 'stuff'.

I'd personally encourage my child to obtain the saving 'discipline' when they are young on smaller items. But when they're in the adult world, I'd be encouraging them to use their cash on ASSETS.  Preferably ones that are going to produce cash-flow.  You need to work towards de-couple-ing your time from the dollar up until one day, you realise you have enough cash flow and assets that you can start to buy toys without a material impact on the quality of your life.

For you, I'd say make the Cayman GT4 goal more abstract - like a reward for yourself once you've achieved some level of financial strength. (ie. your business has achieved a milestone that can support your passion).  You'll probably hit your goal sooner than 2017.

(plus along the way your accountant will hopefully find some cheeky tax-happy way to get you some toys)

PS: That stuff I was talking about....is probably sold to you by someone else's asset, making them money by taking it from you...

Each to their own , but that piece above is some super solid and sound advice if you think your life span is going to be beyond 35 that I can totally relate to after very little reflecting

I'm also impressed the OP, who is a millennial actually knows what a Porsche is, can spell it, and found time to make a very sensible post on this forum .  So worthy of an extended response that you ain't going to see by reading the usual 140 characters or getting on snap chat.

I'm going to add to that tough love piece above with my own words of wisdom as I see it and get to talk Porsches, fast toys  and mostly how to make your hard earned go further that I wish someone had parted on to me back when I was in my early twenties that I could relate to, actually registered with me and I actually followed up on in the context of getting on a path to Porsche ownership some time down the track.  I remember a graduate engineer saying to an older colleague, its not just all about what you earn, but what you actually do with your money. 

We all talk about shoulda / woulda / coulda and P cars, but I wish someone sat me down earlier (at Coso's stage of his life ) when I had no family and gave me the following advice which is in the Spirit of Tits' post above.

So some tips (by no means investment advice) but based on my own school of Shoulda / woulda / coulda school of knocks over the years  which adds a bit more colour to the above post and a bit of story that goes full circle and links back to the goal of Porsche ownership and how I got into my P car

1) 'll start with a positive solid piece of advice that I did listen to in relation to cars in your younger years.   Eg Find a cheap budget go fast car very early in your car ownership journey where a heck of a lot of depreciation is done and not much to go and  keep it for a while (a grey haired collegue (Accountant type) took a view that at least 6 to 8 years was a good time frame to own a car and always buy second hand after a lot of depreciation has been endured buy others.  I 'll add to that by  sticking to strictly cash only for non cash generating / depreciating assets, unless you can get the ATO to assist with offsetting the depreciation, significant running costs  or they assist in turning around a cash flow loss to a on paper positive cash flow gain.

2) If you have a passion for a business or can set yourself up as a company (ideally have two sources of income with one not exceeding 80%) and be employed as a agency labour hire (as opposed to PAYG salary earner), invest in that and yourself first and make sure you have a non risk averse tax accountant on board from the get go who gives you two options each time (eg conservative and ask for the aggressive position that push's the grey (explains to you the risk and up side and downside of taking an aggressive position that has risk) for you to make a decision on.  Cars do come latter when the business is successful and you only use you own cash on a car in that scenario when you can afford  it and when the company / business / gifts it to yourself  (at fire sale pricing that the ATO can bare) and the business takes the hit as part of a company tax minimization strategy.

3) Invest in blue chips stocks that pay dividends if  you don't have a mortgage yet. Why put money in a term deposit when you can be a part owner of say a bank and receive dividends more than your term deposit tax free and perhaps see growth in the shares over the long term.  

If not investing in a business or when the business generates a decent cashflow, get yourself in good debt (cheap / flexible loan facilities using someone elses money where interest is tax deductible)  from the get go buying appreciating assets (lets consider appreciation in Porsche's as an alternative asset class when you have some assets with lower maintenence costs already under your name).  Use blue chips shares topped up with more brought on the margin as a vehiche soley to get your  20% deposit on a house with some land that will be rented (preferable(consider any grants on offer) as soon as you can.   I recall being a graduate engineer on an R&R break and had my girlfriend at the time come over to Perth for a change of scenery from Blue skies and red dust and shite camp food.  We had dinner with one of her families friends who had a house on West Coast Highway (Akin to Beach Rd in Melbourne) at North beach.  As we drove to Hilliaries marina in Sorrento (much smaller setup back then) , we drove past some units, and the family friend suggested to get on one of those recently finished units three bedroom units at the back of the complex that still had ocean glimpses that sat about 400 metres diagonally opposite the marina.  Eg This area (Sorrento) is going to take off, trust me.  A mere 175k (about a 4 multiplier on my 3rd year base graduate salary at the time.  One of the earlier shoulda / woulda / coulda's.

4) Piss the Toyota off and buy something for cash that is cheap, fast, fun to drive and inexpensive to maintain for at least the next five years (Discipline).  Old school wrx worked for me at the start of last decade and still reckon nothing has changed this decade (my99 sti 4 door or a  yellow evo 4 if bling is your thing although a bit pricey against a plan jane mY99/ 2000. wont see you making a material loss when you depart with it and be on the look out on forums for some cheap go faster / handle better parts when you get board with the car and get tempted to move it on - be disciplined and spend only a couple of hundred bucks on parts a fellow millennial is giving away to change the feel of the car.  Keep it for that 6 year plus period

3) If your a PAYGer, continue investing in shares as you appear to be doing (I would consider topping up and negative gearing on blue chip stocks paying good divendends(eg margin loan  at circa 5%) as well and pump most of your savings into that until you have a 20% deposit for a property (mortgage insurance for the benefit of the bank is the biggest waste of money in my humble opinion and you should never have any of your hard earnt going towards that.  Think of it as extending the time its going to take to get you into a Porsche 

Eg Buy shares, and put them as collateral in the margin loan and then borrow against your purchased shares.   You can claim the interest on tax.  Need to make sure you preserve your share price when you buy the shares as best you can . Hence for me solid blue chips that pay a good dividend.  (DYOR but a tax deductible subscription to motley fool is not a bad way to get some decent info on dividend stocks if you look beyond on the marketing BS and don't care to pay broker fees and commissions compared to Commsec / ANZ online services when starting out.   Broker as I see is money worth spent when you have a bigger portfolio (eg not on what to buy (have vested interests, but when to consider selling what you have.

4) Big commitment on an investment property, but the trick is forget the property price and the size of the loan after your DYOR on a property.  You only need to cover the interest and principle and better to be in the market than not in it.  Forget units (unless its in a plum position) /  townhouses, just supporting someone elses profiteering).  Buy a livable unloved house on some land that is close to all amentities, and on spend the bare min on it whilst you own it (particularly if renting beyond some paint and the wet areas).    Make sure you have a wise mortgage loan (eg redraw / line of credit, good rate low fees etc)    Eg You want to pump all your money into that  mortgage offset account first (its your primary bank account, eg earning 4% tax free when its in their) and you live off a 55 day interest free credit card (make sure credit card payment bill is  automatically linked to you redraw loan account (eg never ever eve pay credit card interest - eg second biggest waste of money next to mortgage insurance

Common them, eg leveraging off other peoples money before your own. eg investment loan facility/ mortgage  / credit cars with interest free period.  Just make sure you spend in on appreciating assets.

When you have a buffer in your mortgage offset account - eg 6 or so months of payments in your redraw account, I would go back to building up the  share portfolio.  Eg Dividend stocks and reinvest the dividends (same as compound interest).  Then you need to spend more time on HOTCOPPER as opposed to this forum and divert a small portion of your investment in shares (no more than 10%) in speculative stocks.   That was my downfall.  Eg Lacked that all important DISCIPLINE and got swept up in the  speculative stock bubble in Mining stocks in the late nineties and 2007 and got the speculative portion of my portfolio out of whack.   However,  if I brought that townhouse I mentioned and remained disciplined and kept it early on,  even whilst taking remaining undisciplined on speculative stocks, my foray into Porsche ownership funded in part by the tax man, would of been a lot earlier.

PS I'm in my early forties, remained VERY disciplined with my car stuff(car purchases, eg brought my mates modifed cars after watching how much coin he dropped on it dirt cheap,  brought a second hand WRX on a novated lease and paid zero fbt, that I kept for 7 years,  still own after 8 years  and slowly modded a plenty fast audi what would embarrass 9/10 cars talked about in this forum in a drag and put it on a one year sale and lease back novated lease that had me going from circa 190 awkw pre lease to circa 500hp post lease.

Never driven a P car prior to this year, was offered a 930 turbo for 30k back in the day of the wild west in Perth off a neighbour (exhaust put me off, louder than my rally 3" turbo back on my wrx). Starting looking at a bit more seriously when I got bored with the audi (6year itch) and wanted something that could get a bit more top end power. So had two eyes looking a what a modded 996 turbo could achieve and like what I read and kept half an eye out for a while on one when a low km example  was on par with a 996 gt3  and my mechanic suggest to perhaps spend a extra few grand on a 993 turbo instead of modding a 996 turbo.  Another Shoulda / Woulda / Coulda.  Situation popped up that left me in a positon that it was better to piss money away on a P car than be gifted to the ATO and an opportunity to get into a 996 turbo was a smart play from a tax minimization strategy, so having never driven a Porsche before, brought a 996 turbo without having actually seeing it in the flesh.  Was also wrapped to sell it three days later with a number starting with a 6Xk, but still had access to the keys and nice feeling knowing that after your first drive in a Porsche, there is no-one to had the keys back to.  That said, the first drive as an overall package was fantastic compared to what I have driven previously, but very boring in terms of speed when you have a boost junky hat on.   I well and truly underestimated (apparently) and am blowing the maintainence budget under the lease (factually) to address that boring side of the car.  But what do your expect when you sell the car for more than a 50% reduction than the initial advertised retail priced was when you brought it.  It was obviously a lemon and needs to be fixed before the lease runs out and I get to take ownership of car by buying it back in the 40k mark.  I think what I have outlined above is Tit's version of cheeky way to get yourtoys.  (Eg I'm onto my third and left out accountant because 9 out of 10 are clueless because they don't ever replace parts on cars other than what their mechanics advice them which is based on them looking up a PET diagram of the same year, and model.  Give me a replacement bitsa  clutchkit (997gtrs / 964rs / 964 lightweight flywheel that can hold 890nm) for the same money compared to a stock replacement  996 turbo clutch from a Porsche dealer all day everyday).  That principle doesn't stop at clutches, think exhausts, suspension, intercoolers, reco's turbo's (who said you cant make a 997gt2rs wheel (billet copy or actual cast fit into a k16 housing).  Each of my cars were peaches to drive, particularly when I brought them back at the end of the leases and yes, always had that next years insurance and rego  paid in full with pre tax dollars as well that last week of the lease among submitting a lot of other expenses for claiming in pre tax dollars

PS If you are a very disciplined gambler who with some time spent on research can increase the odds of success, if you invested your 2k close to this time last year in a capital raising on a speculative gold stock MOY, at 4c,  post Brexit, if you were disciplined and got your market timing spot on, you could of exited at 41 cents.   Eg your 2 k went to 20.5k in seven months.  If you got greedy like some investors I know, that 4 cents only went to 22 cents today, but some have a long terms view beyond the one year and have dreams of a return to that 40 cent level some time in the future. That said, trust me, speculative investing is a mugs game if very undisciplined and if you don't go in thinking your investment could tomorrow be worthless.    That said, if you spend some of your time reading hot copper threads in addition to PFA one's and can learn some skills to run some numbers based on your own research and read some financial reports and can risk a few pennies, is not a bad side hobby to have (as opposed to investing time in snap chat and twitter) as you patiently work on getting into your P car that may get you to your goal of getting into your Porsche a bit earlier. For me the biggest Woulda / shoulda / coulda of the last twelve months (eg coulda put another zero on the purchase amount invested and shoulda got out at 41 cents)

As a departing thought, you currently appear to be your own minister of Finance.  I would rather work my way up into a Porsche with the blessing of the Minister of Finance  with a view to holding onto it once I have one.  Not convinced you will the minister of finance down the track when the fiance gets house (including interior)  envy or the kids come along and in absence of other assets or a decent chunk of the mortgage and some decent disposable income and / or a pre nup that mentions your P car is off limits, not convinced holding onto that early P car purchase will be as easy as other make it out to be (2 door coupes and baby seats and ben and ted prams work well in a Cayenne but not a Cayman.

Good luck with your saving plans and goal to get in a Porsche.  I don't see returns on your invested savings allowed for.  That said, I subscribe to TITs' view on buying a Porsche, eg Time to get into a Porsche is when you realise you have enough cash flow and assets that you can start to buy toys without a material impact on the quality of your life. 

[Tit]

Phew!

Came across this last night. It's American, but still relevant:

[SimonN]

Some have danced around it here, but the difference between the rich and 'not-rich' is.....the rich buy assets, the 'not-rich' buy 'stuff'.  Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but cars are 'stuff'.

I cannot agree with this. Cars can be "stuff" you lose loads of money on, but they can also be significant assets. The one thing I know for sure is that new cars are a very good way of losing money, fast, and the more expensive the car is, the more you lose unless it is very limited edition. 

As for that video, that's pretty old and I believe discredited pseudo economics. While the point he makes about saving might be valid for other reasons, his thinking isn't that sound when measured against performance. Since the date he says he started to invest in gold, oil and silver, the reason why he would have been ahead today is solely because of the performance of gold. Oil has significantly under performed simply saving and silver slightly better. However, if you look at volatility, most would have preferred to have the money in the bank than investing in those 2. Depending on what country you are in, property and gold have tracked pretty well together while one thing that most agree has out-performed all of those..... classic cars!

Unless you have loads of money and can build a portfolio of cars so as to spread the risk, thinking of a car as an investment is probably not wise. however, if you buy well, with some intelligence, I think it is reasonable to to expect older cars to "wash their own face" in terms of costs and value, making it similar to having the money in the bank, just a little less liquid. It's a shame that my wife isn't a fan of older cars and needs her "new car fix" every few years, with all the new toys. And she claims i am the expensive one!

[Tit]

I cannot agree with this. Cars can be "stuff" you lose loads of money on, but they can also be significant assets. The one thing I know for sure is that new cars are a very good way of losing money, fast, and the more expensive the car is, the more you lose unless it is very limited edition. 

As for that video, that's pretty old and I believe discredited pseudo economics. While the point he makes about saving might be valid for other reasons, his thinking isn't that sound when measured against performance. Since the date he says he started to invest in gold, oil and silver, the reason why he would have been ahead today is solely because of the performance of gold. Oil has significantly under performed simply saving and silver slightly better. However, if you look at volatility, most would have preferred to have the money in the bank than investing in those 2. Depending on what country you are in, property and gold have tracked pretty well together while one thing that most agree has out-performed all of those..... classic cars!

Unless you have loads of money and can build a portfolio of cars so as to spread the risk, thinking of a car as an investment is probably not wise. however, if you buy well, with some intelligence, I think it is reasonable to to expect older cars to "wash their own face" in terms of costs and value, making it similar to having the money in the bank, just a little less liquid. It's a shame that my wife isn't a fan of older cars and needs her "new car fix" every few years, with all the new toys. And she claims i am the expensive one!

Clearly some classic cars have performed well it the last few years, but picking the right ones is tricky for most punters. They also don't generate cash flow unless you're hiring them out.

Leaving money in the bank, is better than not saving, but on the contiuum of wealth creation it proably still has a high opportunity cost.

Obviously that Kyosaki video is old and based in the US, but you can't argue inflation dosent happen or that the banks offer up interest deals that work in the customers favour.

[CoSo]

...

smit2100, a lot of sage advice and I thank you for taking the time to share it - I know of West Coast Highway well - my fiancee lived on that road, and I have driven it many a time to Hillary's, having lived in Perth for the majority of my life.

Of the 3 cars I've owned, 2 have been second hand, cash only nothing-special cars - until I splurged on the Toyota 86, half as a graduation and work present to myself and half of the mind to keep it and run it into the ground whilst eyeing a Porsche one day. I, unfortunately, did not have the foresight to predict the Porsche price explosion, which has left me precariously drifting in the water watching the ship sail away, which I'm inclined to rectify... perhaps too quickly?

In one sense, I feel fortunate to have not been bitten by the car modding bug - short of a fresh set of nice tyres and wheels on the 86 (those stock Primacy HP tyres are downright subpar), I've never modified anything else on any of my past or present cars - as you mentioned with the situation with your friends, it's not rare to see car advertisements stating (lamenting?) the amount of coin spent on mods.

In terms of the shareholder advice, certainly something I have considered - am not a stranger to the Hot Copper name and have perused it once or twice, but have to date neglected my own education as it pertains to shares. Certainly I've done both well and terribly in holding long term blue chip shares. I concede that I probably spend far too much spare time daydreaming and browsing all manners of Porsches on car sales websites than furthering my earning potential.

Where I differ in mindset is that I, naturally, am rather pessimistic about the Australian housing market, having suffered from the rise in costs but not being a homeowner - I can't see the growth that has been experienced thus far being maintained and houses as an investment at this point forward is akin to borrowing at 10% to buy shares paying 5% dividends.... without the near certainty of extraordinary capital growth, housing as an investment makes less sense for the medium to long term future. With the rapid rise of automation, and globalisation - the workforce will be ever mobile, ever nomadic, and I think at some point that will permeate into daily life - near global network connectivity and virtual workstations will mean there's no physical presence required in Melbourne or Sydney, and we can all live down in Byron Bay with symsy or at your favourite seachange/treechange, with Amazon drone delivery for whatever you need, and overnight auto-driving cars to take you into a capital city if you wanted to visit, etc. Are we heading into a world where in 20 years time, someone will be willing to pay $3-$5 million to live 1 hour outside of Melb/Syd/Brisbane/Perth etc, instead of anywhere else in the world? I'm not so sure. So paying $300,000 interest expense on a $500,000 mortgage over 30 years doesn't really appeal to me.

That brings me to the other salient point you've raised, about business - this is my, perhaps, true passion, other than getting into a Porsche, and I'm trying to manoeuvre my life and career in that direction. I am of the mind that, you can either spend 24 hours a day trying to cut costs, or 24 hours a day trying to increase revenue streams... and there's only so much expense you can cut! I have a not-negligible chunk saved up for this very purpose... soon enough.

As for the Porsche savings, I'm being very intentional with the difference between budgeting for a Porsche and saving for a Porsche - I might be 'putting away' roughly ~1k per month on the Porsche but the cash is not necessarily sitting in an interest bearing bank account.

I am in a peculiar position where my incessant 'lack of a Porsche' whinging, planning, car browsing and scheming is causing my fiancee to say to "just to buy the damn thing!" yet I know better than to sabotage our financial future in the near term. It's ultimately a selfish, financially irresponsible purchase. I just need to figure out at what point, the financial irresponsibility is worth it.

Plans are made to be broken of course and I'm hoping it's in a favourable sense... we'll see in due time! For now it's $1,000 more into the fund for December 

[smit2100]

smit2100, a lot of sage advice and I thank you for taking the time to share it - I know of West Coast Highway well - my fiancee lived on that road, and I have driven it many a time to Hillary's, having lived in Perth for the majority of my life.

Of the 3 cars I've owned, 2 have been second hand, cash only nothing-special cars - until I splurged on the Toyota 86, half as a graduation and work present to myself and half of the mind to keep it and run it into the ground whilst eyeing a Porsche one day. I, unfortunately, did not have the foresight to predict the Porsche price explosion, which has left me precariously drifting in the water watching the ship sail away, which I'm inclined to rectify... perhaps too quickly?

In one sense, I feel fortunate to have not been bitten by the car modding bug - short of a fresh set of nice tyres and wheels on the 86 (those stock Primacy HP tyres are downright subpar), I've never modified anything else on any of my past or present cars - as you mentioned with the situation with your friends, it's not rare to see car advertisements stating (lamenting?) the amount of coin spent on mods.

In terms of the shareholder advice, certainly something I have considered - am not a stranger to the Hot Copper name and have perused it once or twice, but have to date neglected my own education as it pertains to shares. Certainly I've done both well and terribly in holding long term blue chip shares. I concede that I probably spend far too much spare time daydreaming and browsing all manners of Porsches on car sales websites than furthering my earning potential.

Where I differ in mindset is that I, naturally, am rather pessimistic about the Australian housing market, having suffered from the rise in costs but not being a homeowner - I can't see the growth that has been experienced thus far being maintained and houses as an investment at this point forward is akin to borrowing at 10% to buy shares paying 5% dividends.... without the near certainty of extraordinary capital growth, housing as an investment makes less sense for the medium to long term future. With the rapid rise of automation, and globalisation - the workforce will be ever mobile, ever nomadic, and I think at some point that will permeate into daily life - near global network connectivity and virtual workstations will mean there's no physical presence required in Melbourne or Sydney, and we can all live down in Byron Bay with symsy or at your favourite seachange/treechange, with Amazon drone delivery for whatever you need, and overnight auto-driving cars to take you into a capital city if you wanted to visit, etc. Are we heading into a world where in 20 years time, someone will be willing to pay $3-$5 million to live 1 hour outside of Melb/Syd/Brisbane/Perth etc, instead of anywhere else in the world? I'm not so sure. So paying $300,000 interest expense on a $500,000 mortgage over 30 years doesn't really appeal to me.

That brings me to the other salient point you've raised, about business - this is my, perhaps, true passion, other than getting into a Porsche, and I'm trying to manoeuvre my life and career in that direction. I am of the mind that, you can either spend 24 hours a day trying to cut costs, or 24 hours a day trying to increase revenue streams... and there's only so much expense you can cut! I have a not-negligible chunk saved up for this very purpose... soon enough.

As for the Porsche savings, I'm being very intentional with the difference between budgeting for a Porsche and saving for a Porsche - I might be 'putting away' roughly ~1k per month on the Porsche but the cash is not necessarily sitting in an interest bearing bank account.

I am in a peculiar position where my incessant 'lack of a Porsche' whinging, planning, car browsing and scheming is causing my fiancee to say to "just to buy the damn thing!" yet I know better than to sabotage our financial future in the near term. It's ultimately a selfish, financially irresponsible purchase. I just need to figure out at what point, the financial irresponsibility is worth it.

Plans are made to be broken of course and I'm hoping it's in a favourable sense... we'ly  of its l see in due time! For now it's $1,000 more into the fund for December 

All good, but I wasn't mindful as I should of been in terms of you being a millennial, but some fair calls as you see it  with an eye into the future.  A house to me is a hedge against inflation, and  defacto bank account that currently has good capital gains upside on a sale if you manage to swing a profit and beats paying rent (eg can always rent it and pay rent somewhere else and get those numbers working in your favour).  Most importantly, after you have some equity in a property, not convinced its going to loose any of its lustre as a cheap line of credit for funds to finance what the heck you like (even for Porsche purchases) with no mother may I's from anyone other that the minister of finance

Not convinced with good old supply and demand fundamentals and greed and emotion fueling bulls and bears, we have seen the end of cycles, eg Porsche pricing, property, jobs, economy and that everything works in straight trend lines.

Something to consider, in your world of overnight driving auto cars, whose going to be interested in terms of the supply and demand fundamentals  of the market of pushing up these P car prices, beside us greying older farts that enjoy rowing through a set of gears with both your hand and foot .

Here is a non millennial thought.  Perhaps the new P world will have us P enthusiasts pooling our cars into a managed fund structure with some cash injections (opps instantaneous telepathic e wallet payments)  to square up value discrepancies against your initial contribution relative to others.  Pooled cars  in the fund are  rotated between the funds owners on a roster basis with a fund manager making sure cars are maintained, rego, insured  and delivered to you  (human that can drive a manual to the owner and returns to a secure garage (across states) that the fund owners own (opps property which you don't like),  via an Uber driver.  Unit holders are biiled an  management expense ratio which may be deducted first from any profits made in the funds based on actual disposals for the year.  Fund members get to vote on what stock to move in or out of the fund based on recommendations of the chief investment advisor (Byron Based Symsy  - The Kerr Nelson (Platinum Managed Funds founder)  of the P car fund market) would be a good candidate as chief tyre kicker ) and can offload their share based on independent audits of the fund managers professional judgement of the  quarterly market value of the cars and garages (small storage untis or fund holders with extra garage space what get a deduct off their fee) , any e wallet profits made ) with yourself as a part time trainee starting out as the premier P Uber driver for Melbourne who picks up and deliveries cars to Melbourne unit holders in the fund when driving stock is rotated.  Your Toyota is a manual right?).  

No prizes for the chief investment officers investment thesis  - Buy wholesale (don't discriminate against the registered birth certificates country of origin) and offload at retail based on timing the market with your stock on hand.  Simple and potentially sure fire way to fund the management expense ratio and maintaining an ward trend on your P car unit fund price.   As trainee, you May learn a thing or two to snag yourself an opportunistic bargain if you stick close to the chief tyre kicker  that may get you into a P car earlier.  Probably get to drive a few nice cars bi monthly as well  whilst working on how to virtually wind back the odometers of the cars in the funds to reflect owners in the funds have hardly driven them along with some e invoices on the service records that reflect the low km's travelled whilst under the funds control

 

 

 

[LeeM]

  I have no idea what on earth you lot are on about with shares etc, yet I'm with your missus in saying just buy one and stop over thinking it. Don't forget to live whilst making a life

[KGB]

Booker Prize stuff.

[CoSo]

Here is a non millennial thought.  Perhaps the new P world will have us P enthusiasts pooling our cars into a managed fund structure with some cash injections (opps instantaneous telepathic e wallet payments)  to square up value discrepancies against your initial contribution relative to others.  Pooled cars  in the fund are  rotated between the funds owners on a roster basis with a fund manager making sure cars are maintained, rego, insured  and delivered to you  (human that can drive a manual to the owner and returns to a secure garage (across states) that the fund owners own (opps property which you don't like),  via an Uber driver.

...

Funny you mention that, as apparently Porsche themselves are looking into a ride share program and have started it in the Netherlands:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/amp28888/share-a-porsche/&ved=0ahUKEwielpuVzOXQAhUCxbwKHbwPDz8QFgg4MAA&usg=AFQjCNE3VhpHSUM8QV0ynwGulkrsINLPZQ&sig2=GFDbijjVuYgzi-adcGBwkg

 

[tazzieman]

Booker Prize stuff.

You mean stuff I never read?

[TINGY]

  I have no idea what on earth you lot are on about with shares etc, yet I'm with your missus in saying just buy one and stop over thinking it. Don't forget to live whilst making a life

FAAAARRRRK. This is doing my head in, just buy one already.

No wonder i have no money.

I do like this though, who's going to set it up?

Here is a non millennial thought.  Perhaps the new P world will have us P enthusiasts pooling our cars into a managed fund structure with some cash injections (opps instantaneous telepathic e wallet payments)  to square up value discrepancies against your initial contribution relative to others.  Pooled cars  in the fund are  rotated between the funds owners on a roster basis with a fund manager making sure cars are maintained, rego, insured  and delivered to you  (human that can drive a manual to the owner and returns to a secure garage (across states) that the fund owners own (opps property which you don't like),  via an Uber driver.

[SimonN]

Perhaps the new P world will have us P enthusiasts pooling our cars into a managed fund structure with some cash injections (opps instantaneous telepathic e wallet payments)  to square up value discrepancies against your initial contribution relative to others.  Pooled cars  in the fund are  rotated between the funds owners on a roster basis with a fund manager making sure cars are maintained, rego, insured  and delivered to you  (human that can drive a manual to the owner and returns to a secure garage (across states) that the fund owners own (opps property which you don't like),  via an Uber driver.

Something very similar has been done overseas, but without the complex cash injection idea (which I don't get) and not with only one make of car. There are some issues with doing it here in Oz, but it could be done.

[JWM]

I've pondered different models for making that sort of thing work.

Trust is probably the core issue to sort out but as AirBnB and others have shown you can manage it to an extent, if not always completely. Lots of options for the "mechanics" of how everything else works.