SimonN Posted 18December, 2016 Report Share Posted 18December, 2016 Some might think I go looking for controversy, and this thread is going to do nothing to change that view! As many will have seen, the following picture has been doing the rounds of social media.For me, this picture shows all that is wrong with modern performance 2 seaters (dare I say sports cars!), and I am not just picking on Porsche here. Be it due to regulations or any other consideration, the cars we are offered today are bloated beyond belief. The 1964 car weighed 1080kgs, the 991 shown is 1485kgs. You can argue that the power to weight ratio makes up for that, but a sports car is more than just it's straight line acceleration figures. Weight completely changes the dynamics of a car. It is why I now prefer older cars to modern ones. I go with the view of probably the greatest boat designer (Uffa Fox) who said "weight is only good in a road roller"!It's not as if it isn't possible to build modern, high performance cars significantly lighter. Even Porsche does it with the Cayman GT4, although that could be lighter still. As an aside, the Cayman very similar in size to a 964. So even if I can overcome my illogical dislike for water cooled Porsches, I am unlikely to buy one because they are bloated.Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 18December, 2016 Report Share Posted 18December, 2016 i would take the 991 over the original if i had to use something almost every day, no doubt. but even with that, i feel the 991 is a bit too large whereas the 996/997 cars were a perfect mix.as a weekender, not a contest, the aircooled car for sure.as an aside, the weight of the GT4 is not that much more than a fully optioned 964, which is a fair trade for the vastly improved chassis rigidity and integral body structure safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 18December, 2016 Report Share Posted 18December, 2016 Photo is a fake!! Some simple measuring, taking the '64 as 1610mm wide equates to almost 2200mm wide for the 991 (actually 1808mm)..... a doctored image to prove someone's point...!! Yes it has grown, 198mm to be precise... the fact that the new 911 is actually lower than the original only reinforces this....!!If you are talking absolute figures the Cayman is 7mm narrower than the 991 and 119mm shorter while being the same height..... Personally I would take any water cooled 911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBRUT Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 "The 1964 car weighed 1080kgs"I think they weigh less than that. My 69E group S car is 970kgs with a massive full roll cage, and my 65 is a far far simpler (and thus lighter) car.64/65's built to FIA spec need ballast to get to 1000kg (even with full trim and a full cage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 People are considerably wider than they were in '64That generalisation said, modern sports cars feel cramped and cosseting. In fact most modern cars are somewhat claustrophobic - and the driving experience a sort of condom between driver and road. But aren't we safe nowadays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonN Posted 19December, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Photo is a fake!! Some simple measuring, taking the '64 as 1610mm wide equates to almost 2200mm wide for the 991 (actually 1808mm)..... a doctored image to prove someone's point...!! Yes it has grown, 198mm to be precise... the fact that the new 911 is actually lower than the original only reinforces this....!!If you are talking absolute figures the Cayman is 7mm narrower than the 991 and 119mm shorter while being the same height.....Personally I would take any water cooled 911 Sorry, i should have stated the photo is a fake, but it sums up what some (many) think. The standard 991 is 18mm lower, which probably wouldn't be noticeable in a photo like this. The main point i was making was about weight, which has increased at least 37.5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apogee Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Yes, one is too cocooned in modern cars especially cars that have come out in the last 5-6 years. Coupled with electrically assisted steering and no mechanical e-brake, driving one is like driving a tomb on wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonN Posted 19December, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 "The 1964 car weighed 1080kgs"I think they weigh less than that. My 69E group S car is 970kgs with a massive full roll cage, and my 65 is a far far simpler (and thus lighter) car.64/65's built to FIA spec need ballast to get to 1000kg (even with full trim and a full cage).According to the records I have found, the kerb weight of the very first cars offered were 1080kgs. The 69E is listed as 1020kgs in standard format. The 65 is listed as being 1050kgs. I have checked this in a number of sources, but maybe they are all based on a single dodgy bit of info!. However, we can agree that they were significantly lighter than the modern cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Sorry, i should have stated the photo is a fake, but it sums up what some (many) think. The standard 991 is 18mm lower, which probably wouldn't be noticeable in a photo like this. The main point i was making was about weight, which has increased at least 37.5%.This photo is closer at it for my mind. Yes is is bigger, partly due to safety reason (crumple zones, etc), but a lot of it is taken up by the huge "hips" the internal cab dimensions may well be close. side intrusion would be infinitely better as well, not to mention all the creature comforts the new one has, which is what todays consumer wants....Rightly or wrongly it is what we have now and Porsche cannot make enough of them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 The faces are just as funny after 50 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 I started typing a SMIT length post, but I will just say this, buy one of each (or more) and taste the rainbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 I started typing a SMIT length post, but I will just say this, buy one of each (or more) and taste the rainbow. Spoken like an Operating Thetan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Is it just me or does it feel like there is more room inside a 997 than a 991? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperson Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Is it just me or does it feel like there is more room inside a 997 than a 991?maybe you were younger and skinnier when you had the 997? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 maybe you were younger and skinnier when you had the 997?just posted on this very topic in what's for sale. P-car owners than no longer fit in their p-car. Could be the death of the brand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Simon I can only add a 911 is a 2+2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 Is it just me or does it feel like there is more room inside a 997 than a 991?I got to sit in a 991 recently and I felt very encapsulated. 996 felt much more roomy but it's probably psychological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 19December, 2016 Report Share Posted 19December, 2016 So even if I can overcome my illogical dislike for water cooled Porsches, I am unlikely to buy one because they are bloated.Discuss!Cant stand a bloated Porsche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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