GT4 RS

[SlowCarPls]

There's currently 22 of these up for sale on carsales, all low km. 

There's a variety of specs, some weissach some not, but they seem to be running around 80k below new price already. 

What's the deal here? Why so many for sale so early in their life? 

Presumably prices are going to have to drop even further for these to actually sell. How low will these fall? 

[LeeM]

 Probably some of them are flippers thinking they were going to make a profit, or it's just the sign of the times with people needing to clear some debt. 

[Harold996tt]

Would agree with Lee, flippers together with the fact the latest and greatest is the spyder RS. The 4RS has had a huge fall from grace, whether warranted or not, by the YouTube reviewers who have said its just too hard and noisy for the road.

[mc968cs]

22 listed for sale seems a lot, I wonder how many are even in australia?
I’ve only driven them on track and it’s a brilliant car for that.  

[SlowCarPls]

All seem to be in Australia.

If you're buying an RS to drive, I can't imagine why you'd buy a GT3RS when you can have one of these for 40-50% the price. 

[Miffy]

But only 2 of the Cayman GTS 4.0 and 4 Boxster GTS 4.0 which is what I’d rather have.

Not as extreme but seems they are much rarer on the resale market ?

[Harold996tt]

7 hours ago, SlowCarPls said:

All seem to be in Australia.

If you're buying an RS to drive, I can't imagine why you'd buy a GT3RS when you can have one of these for 40-50% the price. 

Totally agree with you. And smaller in the vein of a 997, which makes it far more usable for enthusiastic weekend use on back roads where the GT3 RS really is a little too much size wise and dollar wise for the roads with occasional track use.

6 hours ago, Miffy said:

But only 2 of the Cayman GTS 4.0 and 4 Boxster GTS 4.0 which is what I’d rather have.

Not as extreme but seems they are much rarer on the resale market ?

As mentioned by Lee I suspect it's because the Cayman GTS and Boxster 4.0 were bought by true owners where the 4rs were allocated to VIP flippers who now want out of the 4RS as their Spyder RS allocations are arriving.

[edgy]

I think it’s really quite simple = volume 

They made a lot of these cars, from the outset Porsche said it will build as many as it has orders for within its production window, therefore they were only limited by capacity to make. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Miffy said:

But only 2 of the Cayman GTS 4.0 and 4 Boxster GTS 4.0 which is what I’d rather have.

Not as extreme but seems they are much rarer on the resale market ?

It’s an interesting point, these became available to order right around the time the Pandemic hit in early 2020.. I think first builds were meant to be MY21’s… I had specced a Cayman GTS 4.0 up and nearly pulled the trigger, but I played it safe and pulled the pin on that idea… 2021 hit us with the supply chain crisis, so it makes sense they’re in low numbers… definitely a sweet spot 
 

[LeeM]

11 hours ago, SlowCarPls said:

All seem to be in Australia.

If you're buying an RS to drive, I can't imagine why you'd buy a GT3RS when you can have one of these for 40-50% the price. 

 For those in the position of being able to buy either, I'm sure it'd mainly come down to a prestige kinda thing with owning a 911 GT3RS, and not "Just a tarted up Cayman" as some people say in the video comments, and I think most of us know that a big percentage of owners of these cars only use them to pop down to the local cars n coffee meets, and not beat the shit out of it in the hills or a track day...unlike some of the owners on here who do use them as intended.

 As much as I'd be happy to own either, fortunately (or unfortunately) I'll never have that dilemma of having to choose one, yet after watching a few track focussed videos of GT4RS's lately (Nurburgring mainly), dare I ask would you need much more than a GT4 for the road? A well driven Cayman are a pretty handy car in the right hands, so I imagine a GT4RS would be ridiculously good fun in the right environment 

[edgy]

11 hours ago, LeeM said:

A well driven Cayman are a pretty handy car in the right hands, so I imagine a GT4RS would be ridiculously good fun in the right environment 

It's an interesting point you raise, a couple of guys I garaged with over the years in PC super-sprints have had the last few 911 RS cars, the 992 is the one they chose to sat out on because they simply couldn't see the value in the extra spend for the tracks we drive on... the GT4RS is the value sweet spot for them and many. 

As great/capable as the 992 RS is, I can't help but feel that you look a bit of dickhead down at your local cafe in one.... 

[wirthO]

It will be interesting to see where prices go once the 992.2 GT3 is announced and it's over half a million dollars with a few options. 

[DJM]

Future classic 🤔

Right size, not as shouty as a 992RS, shorter gearing makes it more exploitable on road without giving too much away on track, so well balanced and the noise never gets old (don’t believe the hype).  I still laugh out loud every drive, a year/7500km later. 

It’s everything I want in an RS product.  Sure there’s quite a few on market but it’ll settle when they move into the hands of those who understand the RS remit. 

I always expect a car will drop in value so I’m never disappointed when they do 🤷‍♂️. To the shifty flipper crew, I hope you cop the depreciation in the neck so next time you willconsider shares or property and stop robbing enthusiasts of their dream 🤣

PS remember when a 996 GT3 was out of favour (fried egg headlights annd poxy interior)  and there were a dozen for sale at $85-$100k?  

remember when a 964 was the shittest of the air cooled and a C2 manual was 50 grand?  

They all go through phases………don’t miss the 4RS boat.

[LeeM]

19 minutes ago, DJM said:

 

remember when a 964 was the shittest of the air cooled and a C2 manual was 50 grand?  

 

 Jeez, I remember when I could've bought a half decent converted import wide body thing for $19k! 😅

[DJM]

Does anyone know how many GT4RS were delivered?

[edgy]

12 hours ago, DJM said:

PS remember when a 996 GT3 was out of favour (fried egg headlights annd poxy interior)  and there were a dozen for sale at $85-$100k?  

remember when a 964 was the shittest of the air cooled and a C2 manual was 50 grand?  

They all go through phases………don’t miss the 4RS boat.

 

Definitely... even 997 RS etc, those use to be a dealer order car that sat on the lot... this whole business of speccing your build is a rather new one, relatively speaking. 

[wirthO]

On 14/10/2024 at 20:23, wirthO said:

It will be interesting to see where prices go once the 992.2 GT3 is announced and it's over half a million dollars with a few options. 

https://www.motor1.com/news/737472/new-porsche-911-gt3-debut-horsepower-details/

we should know the pricing in a few days 

[Oldknees]

Used GT4 is still pretty good. Save $100k + as well. 

Plus you have the option of a manual.

 

 

[DJM]

On 12/10/2024 at 19:52, SlowCarPls said:

There's currently 22 of these up for sale on carsales, all low km. 

There's a variety of specs, some weissach some not, but they seem to be running around 80k below new price already. 

What's the deal here? Why so many for sale so early in their life? 

Presumably prices are going to have to drop even further for these to actually sell. How low will these fall? 

Just thinking about your “80k below new” comment.  Not sure what you’ve based that on.

The cheapest Weissach equipped cars are listed from 365k or so.  I just checked and my car with Weissach and a handful of other common options (front lift, clubsport pack with steel cage, calipers in black, passenger harness and a few other bits) was 362k and change new plus stamp duty which varies by state (32.5k in Vic 😩)

So essentially, if I sold for 365k, I’d get a few grand more than what I paid after writing off stamp duty as a sunk cost.  The new owner would pay 365 + 33 stamp duty = 398k which again is a few grand more than the new, on road price of Sept 2023.  I believe the 2022 cars were about 20k cheaper than what I paid and later deliveries copped a further price rise.  Mine is likely around the average price. 

non Weissach cars are listed for say 20 to 40k less which reflects the ~20 grand Weissach option cost and perhaps also factors in lower demand for non Weissach cars.  

I’m not fussed because I expect values to drop from new and I ain’t selling anyway.  But by my calculation, they are currently sitting at around RRP.  If I was to buy one used for 365k, I don’t expect to on sell in future for 400k to recover stamp duty.  If I bought for 365k now and on sold in future for 365k I would say that I got my money back.  I don’t think values discussions typically factor stamp duty in as a recoverable cost?

I thought it was worth citing real numbers which clarify the current state of play for anyone considering buying one.  I do agree that they could well go lower given the number on market and state of the economy.  

We’ll see what happens with GT4RS medium term once new deliveries cease and when interest rates start pulling back.  If I had to guess I’d say they could get to high 2s for basic cars to low 3s for well spec’d cars.  I suspect with negotiation we’re not far off that now.  With a lot of cars delivered and a niche market, perhaps they don’t rebound much 🤷‍♂️. Man a sub 300k 4RS would be great buying with or without Weissach (which is just garnish, doesn’t change the driving experience).

[edgy]

So business as usual you say! 

That I can get down with... a 4RS in the 2's in the near future I think will absolutely be a reality and probably enticing for some of us to jump in. 

I am itching to get some seat time again, and I've thought about all the possibilities, but its difficult to get value in a true drive there, drive home track day special that isn't worth a small Sydney studio apartment ... so I am keeping a keen eye on this space. 

 

[cafe_racer]

Think my car was about $30k less than what I paid on road when I traded it. So basically just lost some tax. I think for 18 months, 8,000k’s and lots of track time it’s excellent value considering how good the car is. Let’s not add up with tyres, alignments, track time etc. as the figure gets a bit more. But you’ve gotta pay to play! 

I’ve got a couple of mates waiting for a sub $300k 4RS before they pull the trigger. And with a 718 Spyder or gt4 about $230ish that delta starts to make the 4RS look like even better value.