Cal Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Obviously I'm not going to get a baby seat in the back of my 67, but what's the law say about kids, lap sashes and old cars? My little girl is 21 months old and I reckon she'd be fine strapped into the back seat on short journeys to Cars & Coffee and things like that (Mum disagrees). If not now, then when she is a little older. As far as I'm aware 911's never got more than a lap belt back there did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveF Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Mine has two of the across the shoulder type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 I think impact bumpers coincided with the start of 3 point rear belts, so unless you're prepared to hack something together I think you're stuck with lap belts I'd assume you could fit the later seatbelts somehow though - it seems to all be in the parcel shelf and underneath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted 23June, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 I wonder what the law has to say about it? Mine didn't have rear belts at all to begin with. I assume it's the same as as the law pertaining to cars built before belts at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 I think you might need to get them engineered, but it'd be weird if it said they had to stay without belts.. I have been in a mid 60s 220SE coupe that had no seat belts at all, it was an experience pulling up at a set of lights beside a police car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 cal the issue of kids and cars and the law is pretty clear - but irrespecive go that one step better and fix 3 point belts - bugger 'orignality' when it comes to the safety of my kids or others. Though its not too hard to fit a child seat using the lap belt to hold it in, then using the parcel shelf luggage bracket as a restraint point. - caveat your existing fixing points may be compromised best checked by a person certifed to do so - even better again make a modified 'harness bar using the same locations and a discrete third fixing.. I am re engineering such a device at the moment. As they grow you can then take them out of the seat and use a 3-4 point harness. nice and safe or as safe as you can make it.... nothing less is acceptable (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Hi Cal, I don't believe you can have a child under 7 un-restrained in any car so you would need to ensure you could install a compliant child seat. The lap sash belt shouldn't be an issue in this case as it would remain only to anchor the base of the child seat in addition to the second anchor point that would be required on the rear parcel shelf (if you don't have one you would need to install one). So, as long as you can effectively install a child seat correctly then the lap sash belt should be fine. (disclaimer: please check with AS standards and state requirements!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 the issue of kids and cars and the law is pretty clear - but irrespecive go that one step better and fix 3 point belts - bugger 'orignality' when it comes to the safety of my kids or others. nice and safe or as safe as you can make it.... nothing less is acceptable (IMO) +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatout Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 My previous car was old and didn't have anchor points originally. I installed a brace under the parcel tray and bolted 2 anchor points off that so I could carry kids in that car. I showed my engineer he said I'd way over-engineered it but it was fine, didn't need to be certified. I just figured if I couldn't carry kids in my car, I'd never get to take it out. Now have 2 seats in the back of the 911. But yeah, law is clear about kids in cars, no way around that. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion03 Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Put a baby seat in! Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBayChris Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Mum is right ( as usual??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 There's a similar thread on pelican... Couple of wallies on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Somewhere I have a book from the Australian Street Rod Federation that details how to engineer your seatbelt anchorages. From memory you need a plate outside the body,that is the same shape as the panel you are fastening through. Minimum of something like 75mm square and 3mm thick if I recall correctly. This method was approved in all states. I'll see what I can dig up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Whatever you do make sure they keep their feet off the back of the front seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted 23June, 2014 Report Share Posted 23June, 2014 Whatever you do make sure they keep their feet off the back of the front seat. My kids used to do that and it was incredibly annoying, so I sat them down and explained to them how it was distracting and dis-respectful to kick the seat as it could damage it. I was told that calmly and rationally explaining things to your kids is a parenting best practice. The next time we went out in the car we drove for at least 2 km before they started kicking the back of the seat! I have now found that cable ties work better than calm rationality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhead Posted 24June, 2014 Report Share Posted 24June, 2014 You're my kind of favourite parent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 24June, 2014 Report Share Posted 24June, 2014 The rules are different and change all the time...new cars should soon be able to use ISOFIX..outside the scope of this particular discussion though I think. As for the old cars - you would need to get a seat that fits and get it mounted properly. The lap belt might be ok as the anchor for a 2 year old is part of the anchor bolt and seatbelt, and the actual seat itself has it's own belt mechanism. When I imported my car the only change I had to make was fitting child restraint anchors. These are essentially just a particular grade of bolt mounted to the parcel shelf. As the particular model came in Australia with anchor points I suspect these may have even been available to put the bolts into, or maybe the guy drilled out the parcel shelf. I don't know, but it all was set to spec. The proper bolts have an OEM look to them and he even supplied some snap covers to cover them up when not in use, which also look OEM. The rules for two-seaters - you are allowed to carry a child in the front seat in the proper car seat if there are no other available seats. So you can use a two-seater to pick up a kid from school if you only have one. A local doctor near me drives his kid around in an Elise with the car seat on the front. My problem is that Porsche declined to make any 5 seat sports cars...not sure how to solve that particular problem. As for history - I grew up unrestrained in the rear seat of a '69 280SE which had no belts. I even used to sleep on the rear parcel shelf. But we shouldn't apply the same standards today - just because we got lucky we shouldn't try and extend the luck further. As for kicking the car seats...simples. Any child that kicks the seat incurs a total vehicle 1 minute stop-go penalty. Pull over and stop the car for one minute. Yes, that also stops progress towards destination for said adults, but you usually only have to do it once or twice. Kids hate sitting in a car going nowhere. Investing a couple of minutes delay in a couple of journeys to cure the issue forever is a wise move IMO. I also have covers that go on the back of the seats to stop the inevitable scuffing as kids scramble in and out of the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted 24June, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 24June, 2014 As for history - I grew up unrestrained in the rear seat of a '69 280SE which had no belts. I even used to sleep on the rear parcel shelf. But we shouldn't apply the same standards today - just because we got lucky we shouldn't try and extend the luck further. Yeah I was in a baby basket behind the seats of a Datsun 1600 Fairlady Sports. Apparently one day I fell out and went down the back of the seats! Somehow I feel differently about my little princess! All sounds a bit hard. Probably just wait until she grows up or buy something else "interesting" for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion03 Posted 24June, 2014 Report Share Posted 24June, 2014 It might be easier to make and mount a set of ISOfix brackets, a heavy gauge slab of steel with two chucky loops welded on, mounted at the junction of seat back and bum, then just get an ISOfix seat and snap it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonR Posted 27June, 2014 Report Share Posted 27June, 2014 I've been researching this one as well (3.5 and 5.5 year olds) ... Lap belt is cool to restrain a booster seat and in Queensland they actually recommend that and a combination of the kids equivalent of a racing harness over a lap/sash. My plan was to have anchor points engineered into the parcel shelf for the harness. I don't know what that entails, but I was just going to go to a specialist installer and find out. It's going to be more than running a bolt through the sheet metal though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonR Posted 27June, 2014 Report Share Posted 27June, 2014 I've been researching this one as well (3.5 and 5.5 year olds) ... Lap belt is cool to restrain a booster seat and in Queensland they actually recommend a lap belt and a combination of the kids equivalent of a racing harness over a lap/sash. My plan was to have anchor points engineered into the parcel shelf behind each seat for the harnesses. I don't know what that entails, but I was just going to go to a specialist installer and find out. It's going to be more than running a bolt through the sheet metal though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAM_911 Posted 28June, 2014 Report Share Posted 28June, 2014 I usualy say "hide when I say so. And dont say a word. If you don't I will reverse my seat until you are mince meat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted 29June, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 29June, 2014 It's going to be more than running a bolt through the sheet metal though ... You might find with the right thickness backing plate, that is fine. That's basically all we do in the race cars for the harness eyelets. These are the last ones I used from Demon Tweeks in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonR Posted 30June, 2014 Report Share Posted 30June, 2014 Perfect -- thanks Cal. Gotta protect the little monkeys from the drunk mothers in their Audi Q7s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 23July, 2014 Report Share Posted 23July, 2014 Bringing up this topic again... I had a conversation with a Import/Compliance place today - they mainly specialise in Skylines and other weird Jap imports, but it was local and I had to start somewhere. He is telling me that I need to pay for a 'blue plate' which indicates that child restraint anchor points have been fitted in accordance with the regs. (QLD regs) The fittings look similar to those posted - a larger steel plate that sits under the parcel shelf, then a bolt and the hooking mechanism. Two questions if anyone can answer: 1) Has anyone got photos of the Australian Delivered standard anchor points for an SC/Carrera? What do they actually look like? 2) Does anyone know if the 'blue plate' has to be done, or can you just get them fitted. I ask this because it's an extra $220 just for the guy to affix the plate. As the car in question is legally registered without child restraint anchors, I wonder if there is really a need for that. I guess a further question would be if anyone knows anyone in SEQ who is able to do this type of work and has actually seen the business end of an air-cooled vehicle before, as opposed to a weird nissan van thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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