The great wheel dilemma

[wilburforce]

OK so before the weekends festivities at Sandown, I was told in no uncertain terms that the tyres on my car are probably the worst ones you can get...  In fact one of the guys at Driver Dynamics told me (as I'm lined up on the dummy grid for my first track session ever - on a semi-wet track) that if anyone's going to leave the road today it's most likely going to be my car with those tyres.  While that didn't instill a lot of confidence - it certainly put me in the right mindset to be safer than sorry on the track!  On doing some research into my Maxtrex Maximum M1's - his advice was certainly on the money.. Having said that my ability/ambition on the day didn't exceed the tyres too much so i'm happy having left in one piece.

I had plans to redo tyres and wheels at some stage as i am running quite large spacers (43mm on rear and about 30mm on front).  I'd rather get the right wheel offset (built or off the shelf) to fit under the widebody guards of my 79 SC.  Currently I have 17x8x10 wheels running 235/45 and 275/40 rubber.  On my calcs and research this is a little bigger OD/Circ than standard but i'm happy enough with that.  This is what I currently look like:

Without any restriction on wheel size or tyre selection i've been trying to put together my best options - however i keep getting stuck at the tyres, as what I estimate I need in sizing doesn't seem to exist or be made anymore.  I'm hoping someone out there has been the hard yards and can point me in the right direction.

Wheels.  I'm tossing up between 15" and 17" - with 15 looking better but ultimately i think 17 having a better driving experience with better tyres available.  The 15's i am looking at are Minilites and Campagnolo replicas - both in matte gold. I want to keep 8 front and 10 rear, for no good reason other than I like it.  I want plenty of dish on the rears.

The 17 options are fuchs replicas (or get my current ones remade in correct offset) or BBS RS with Gold centres.

 

So my car as std came with 205/55r16 and 225/50r16 which have a Circumference of 198.4.  Currently i am running 201.9 on front and 204.7 on rear.  I can find similar (yet very limited options) of 17 rubber for agreeable tyre widths, however 15 seems near impossible. Most tyres i can find are far smaller circumference.  My calcs tell me 235/55r15 and 265/50r15 are the way to go.

Is anyone running 15x8x10 wheels and what rubber are you running? Same for 17x8x10.

Can anyone comment on the differences between riding on 15 and 17 rims?

Am I being stubborn staying at 8 and 10's? Should i consider 7/9?  Is an 11 on the rear too silly?

[hugh]

Wheels are one of the hardest decisions...............

I wouldn't be going anything bigger than 16's, I get why people do it but I'm just not a fan at all. I'd suggest putting in a call with Cameron (classic wheels Australia) and see what he can do in terms of a set of repo Fuchs - not sure of your long term vision but worth throwing that into the mix. 

I'm a fan of the Capag's and Superlite's but more so for race/track looking cars. If yours is going to be more of a street rod then the BBS or Fuch's would get my vote. 

[09ELF]

I have a set if those top wheels if you are interested.

Just make me an offer.

They are 3 piece compomotive dage 3 in 16s. So its decent wheels

 

[wilburforce]

I have a set if those top wheels if you are interested.

Just make me an offer.

They are 3 piece compomotive dage 3 in 16s. So its decent wheels

 

Are they off a widebody (front and rear) SC?  Keen to get something with the correct offsets so I don't need spacers. Also what widths are they?

 

[KBGr4]

With the 15 and 16" rims that you like, theres not much in the way of suitable rubber available anywhere at all !!

I would be interested in what tyres you have found are available ?

Apart from Michellin TB 15's that is .

[clutch-monkey]

in 16"s there is no choice at all for widebody size tyres.

15"s and TB15's it is.

[BlitzKonig]

TurboT got some Trofeo R 245 R16 rears (can't remember the aspect ratio) on the 16" Fuchs he has. 

Street tyre choice is limited and of course a large reason many shift to 17s.

Have you thought about fifteen52 wheels? Theyll give you a 15x10 at the time specs, just send Magnus a msg, Im sure hell happily provide you with the offset for the wheels. 

 

[Simonk]

If you can go for a narrower wheel like 7 and 9, then current offerings for 245/45/16 with matching 205/55/16

Pirelli P Zero Rosso

Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R (r spec)

Continental ContiSportContact

Bridgestone RE-11 (not available in Aus but in stock at tyrerack)

Toyo R888 (r spec)

Toyo do make the T1R in 245 but don't make a 205. They do make a 225/50/16 which would suit 8" wheels.

The Toyos were the only tyre I could get in time for the track day. New stock of the Continentals is apparently due late Feb. Didn't research further into the Pirellis other than the people I asked couldn't get them and I didn't want to deal with Porsche Melbourne or Brighton.

As for wheels, I love the look of the Campagnolos.

[wilburforce]

Thanks for the feedback guys - @BlitzKonig I have had a look at the fifteen52 wheels. They look great but no my thing i dont think

[MFX]

 

 

Am I being stubborn staying at 8 and 10's? Should i consider 7/9?  Is an 11 on the rear too silly?

Ok, I have been through this recently and learn from my mistakes. Tyres for 17x8's are easy to get. Heaps of choices, no problems. Tyres for 17x10's are a nightmare! I had to look all over the place to find something (anything) that fit. They just don't make tyres in that size. I eventually found Falken 453's (I think that was what they are called), in a 275/40R17. 

If I were in your position, I would find tyres first, then look at wheels. Wheels you can get in pretty much any size you like, but that doesn't mean there are tyres that will fit them. If you are going 17's, I would go 17x8 or 17x9 on the front and either 17x9 or 17x11 on the rear. The 17x11's actually have a lot more choice of tyres than the 10's.

Either way, I say again, find the tyres first.

[DHE11]

If you like the gold centre BBS style with a deep polished rim, have a look at the Simmons OM-1. They are slightly heavier that the Simmons FR series 5 spoke but for a street wheel if its the look you like it shouldn't bother you.

You can get them made in SYD to custom offset/widths and give you a deep dish if that's the look your after. If you can find a second hand set Whitehorse (metal spinners australia) in MEL make custom rim halves to modify Simmons.

[wilburforce]

Ok, I have been through this recently and learn from my mistakes. Tyres for 17x8's are easy to get. Heaps of choices, no problems. Tyres for 17x10's are a nightmare! I had to look all over the place to find something (anything) that fit. They just don't make tyres in that size. I eventually found Falken 453's (I think that was what they are called), in a 275/40R17. 

If I were in your position, I would find tyres first, then look at wheels. Wheels you can get in pretty much any size you like, but that doesn't mean there are tyres that will fit them. If you are going 17's, I would go 17x8 or 17x9 on the front and either 17x9 or 17x11 on the rear. The 17x11's actually have a lot more choice of tyres than the 10's.

Either way, I say again, find the tyres first.

Did you ever try or consider 265/40r17 on the 10" rear instead of 275?

I love the idea of 11" but to be honest my car doesn't (and won't) have the power to justify that much rubber.  Would 11s have a negative impact on the drivability given its a std 3.0L?

[BlitzKonig]

Im a little bit confused about this restriction for only certain tyre widths will fit certain wheel widths. Ive got a 225/50R16 on a 7 and 245/50R16 on an 8. But then also have 235/50R17 on an 8. Youll be able to fit 225 on a 7 no issues as this is what the factory had on the rear. What Im trying to get at is, you do have a range for your tyre size with regards to wheel width, there is not just one size.

Would 11s have a negative impact on the drivability given its a std 3.0L?

Youre adding more wheel and more tyre, which in turn is also rotational mass, so yes, youll notice a difference. Even when I jump from the Fuchs (225/50R16 on 7 and 245/50R16 on 8), to my Work Equips (235/50R17 on 8 and 255/45R17 on 9) which weigh a noticable amount more, the car feels completely different. It feels so much more agile and nimble (playful even) with the Fuchs than the Works and the traction different isnt that large.  

[clutch-monkey]

As per the 16" tyre choices above, 245 is the limit.. it's a widebody, anything under 275 is a waste of wheel arch space!

However as per blitz' post a skinnier set of wheels for some trips can actually be more responsive than the wider ones.

[Mike-S]

If you email Minilite in the UK they'll be able to advise you on the correct offset and make you a set to suit, just be aware it may take some time as they only cast at certain times of the year. I had a set of 6x13's made a few years ago with a different offset for our Spitfire, shipped they were very reasonable and they're very light, much better than the Superlites made here in Aus and *much* stronger.

The campags are also a great looking wheel, personally I think they look better on the wide body 911than the Minilite (and that's from someone who thinks the Minilite is the best wheel in the world!)

[MFX]

Did you ever try or consider 265/40r17 on the 10" rear instead of 275?

I love the idea of 11" but to be honest my car doesn't (and won't) have the power to justify that much rubber.  Would 11s have a negative impact on the drivability given its a std 3.0L?

I tried everything from a 265 to a 295, calling every tyre place I could find and searching everywhere online. Have a look, they just aren't available. The rolling diameter of these is actually bigger than I wanted. I would have preferred 35's on the rear to be closer to standard, but they just don't make them. I had to look for anything that fit onto the rim, I wish is was as easy as just a slightly different profile or width... 

As for 11's on the rear, 10's will more than likely be overkill for your car as well. At least with 11's you might be able to get some choice of tyres. I ended up going through St George Tyres in Sydney and they had the best range I could find. With 11's you can get a few different 315's for the rears.

[SimonN]

Why are you so against using spacers? There seems to be some who are against them and I never understand why. Many of the cons put forward are simply incorrect. Porsche has used them on race cars and I know a number of race focused specialists who fit them without any issues. What am i missing?

[wilburforce]

Why are you so against using spacers? There seems to be some who are against them and I never understand why. Many of the cons put forward are simply incorrect. Porsche has used them on race cars and I know a number of race focused specialists who fit them without any issues. What am i missing?

My mail is they're not unsafe if used properly.  They apparently do prematurely wear the bearing  - and (mostly) to check your wheel bolts you have to jack the car, remove the wheel and check the spacers first.

For the record I'm not completely against them - but I'm all for getting the right wheels so i don't have to sorry about it!

[MFX]

I am not against them either, but the RTA is. That said, I have them on my car, I just hope the fuzz doesn't notice as they are illegal. The premature wear of the bearing would happen just as quickly with the equivalent offset. 

The other benefit of going offset in place of spacers is DIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSHHHHH!  

[Carrera28]

Why are you so against using spacers? There seems to be some who are against them and I never understand why. Many of the cons put forward are simply incorrect. Porsche has used them on race cars and I know a number of race focused specialists who fit them without any issues. What am i missing?

This has been discussed a few times.  If you put hub centric spacers from a reputable manufacturer they are a well engineered solution that should be safe. The cheap spacers that literally just slide on over your existing wheels studs do I believe increase the chance of breaking one or more of the wheel studs.

Unfortunately, the road rules do not provide a differentiation between hub centric and non hub centric spacers, and just provide a broad prohibition. The Victorian rules are:

VS8 Victoria - "Guide to modifications for Motor Vehicles" - page 7

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/media/files/documents/safety-and-road-rules/vsinumber8guidetomodificationsformotorvehicles.pdf?la=en

"Spacers between the wheel and hub are not permitted unless provided by the vehicle manufacturer as original equipment"

[SimonN]

It gets very frustrating when construction/modification rules differ between states!. Why can't all cars in Australia be subject to the same rules. It seems that i can drive a car in NSW that I cannot drive in Vic or Qld and, no doubt the other way around.

I looked into the wheel spacer issue and it seems to me to be clear cut in Vic and Qld but less clear cut in NSW. The only reference I can find in NSW is that you cannot use wheel spacers when "wheels and tyres outside the manufacturers recommended range are fitted to a vehicle" unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer. Maybe I haven't tried hard enough, but I cannot find any rule that states you cannot use wheel spacers with original wheels! Most forum post on the subject refers you to the document I have just quoted from but a few state that spacers are allowed on original wheel up to a certain size, but without a link to any documents.

Then it seems that they can be fitted if signed off by a suitable engineer. 

I give up trying to make sense of all this. 

[JV911]

Then it seems that they can be fitted if signed off by a suitable engineer. 

I'll ask next time i speak to mine. Might need to run some on the Rx2, albeit only 3mm shims and only on the front. 

 

[Carrera28]

It gets very frustrating when construction/modification rules differ between states!. Why can't all cars in Australia be subject to the same rules. It seems that i can drive a car in NSW that I cannot drive in Vic or Qld and, no doubt the other way around.

I looked into the wheel spacer issue and it seems to me to be clear cut in Vic and Qld but less clear cut in NSW. The only reference I can find in NSW is that you cannot use wheel spacers when "wheels and tyres outside the manufacturers recommended range are fitted to a vehicle" unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer. Maybe I haven't tried hard enough, but I cannot find any rule that states you cannot use wheel spacers with original wheels! Most forum post on the subject refers you to the document I have just quoted from but a few state that spacers are allowed on original wheel up to a certain size, but without a link to any documents.

Then it seems that they can be fitted if signed off by a suitable engineer. 

I give up trying to make sense of all this. 

I thought the rules in NSW are pretty similar:

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/standards/vsi-09-rev4.pdf

Page 4 - Additional requirements for replacement wheels: "The fitment of wheel spacers (or adaptors for dual wheel conversions) between the wheel mounting face and the road wheel is not permitted unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer."

I presume that you can get spacers engineered to be legal, but I have no concept of hard or otherwise that would be.

 

[JV911]

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/standards/vsi-09-rev4.pdf

Additional requirements for replacement wheels: When wheels and tyres outside the manufacturers recommended range are fitted to a vehicle the following requirements must be met:

Which begs the question, what if they are standard, not replacement, wheels? Similarly, what if they are replacement wheels, but within manufacturer's range?

[Carrera28]

Which begs the question, what if they are standard, not replacement, wheels? Similarly, what if they are replacement wheels, but within manufacturer's range?

Pretty sure the term replacement and alternative are used interchangeably in the document and the meaning is that any wheel other than that which the car came with.

The rules state "An important requirement for all replacement wheels is that the wheel track must not be increased by more than 25mm beyond the maximum specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle." Which presumably would mean the dimensions of any wheel that was an OEM option for the car in question, so at face value I would think any wheel within the dimensions of the OEM options for the car are legal.

If the car in question was sold with spacers as an OEM option the question is whether that complies with the term "fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer". Most people on forums seem to think if spacers were an option on your car then you can fit spacers even if it was not sold with them when new.