High kilometre P cars

[jakroo]

So, as per my ‘introduction’ post, I have the following dilemma…..

 

 

 

I’m currently driving my yellow Lancer Evolution 9 and have done this daily for almost 10 years.  It’s currently sitting at 275k kms ie an average of 27,500kms pa.  I’d like to replace it with something similar ie reasonable performance and reasonably priced.

 

I can see a couple of options available to me including skipping a Porsche completely until I can buy something newer.

 

I could buy one of the new Ford Focus RS rocket ships @ $60k

 

 

I could buy the missus an Isuzu MUX, I take on her C200 as a daily driver and get a weekend Porsche @ $60k for both ie get an older 911 or 928…..

 

I could buy a 7 – 8 year old Cayman for $50-55k and put approx 25-30k kms on it a year for at least 5 years (so if it starts with 60k kms on it, it could end up with ~200k kms on the odo in 5 years time and be 13 years old)

 

Each option has it’s own benefits as well as it’s own detractions, ranging from brand new and all the benefits of that to being part of the P car club, and of course the cost of running more and more cars with rego and insurances being a major downer.    I will be borrowing ~80% for the car.

 

The major thing I’m trying to grapple with is a high kilometre Cayman.  One of the main things with the Evo is that I have kept it stock and driven it as a daily ie the occasional spirited drive but not really ever flogged it.  I get approx. 55k kms out of a set of tyres ($175 per corner), I’m on the third set of brake pads and second set of discs (albeit due for another set of pads and discs at $1k).  Belts every 100 kms are approx $500, 5 or 6 oil changes and other servicing items per year is approx $1.2k.  It’s still a very tight chassis and the engine is in great condition.  What I’m trying to say is that it’s been a great car and has been cheap to run, and I’d expect to get another 50+k kms out of it before anything major like the turbo would need replacing.

 

I understand that a German Porsche Cayman is not a Japanese Mitsubishi Lancer but it’s also not as stressed as the Evo (which is 200kw from a 2 litre engine, the Cayman is 195kw from a 2.9 litre engine).  They are both sports cars at the top of their game and obviously have very different styles and starting prices!

 

I’m not afraid of putting on high kilometres on a well designed machine, and as far as I can tell the Cayman is one of these.  What I am afraid of is a big repair bill just because the engine or gear box won’t get to do a lot of kilometres without needing more than oil/fuel/tyres etc.

 

I can see that there are a few high distance (> 200k kms) 15+ year old 911’s, so how much would have it cost to get them to that point – simple servicing etc or major mechanicals and if so at what sort of odo reading and $$

 

Obviously resale value is impacted but I'm buying a car to get from point A to B in relative comfort and sportiness and if I own it long enough, it won't really owe me anything.

I realise that this is PFA, but I’d appreciate your input to whether you believe they’ll do it ‘easily’ (or not), or if you have experienced high kilometre P cars…..

 

[TrevMcRev]

I think the P-car should do the klms ok, but it will just cost a shit-ton more in service and maintenance than the Evo did... It's called Porsche Tax!

 

[Coastr]

I think any modern car will do that sort of mileage as long as you stick to the services religiously and don't abuse it.  It's not like a Ferrari that needs regular engine out services or anything like that, though you might need to factor in a clutch at some point, and that is not trivial.

You will crush the resale of a Cayman dropping it into the resale market with 300k on the odo, because it will be competing with 'third cars' that are lucky to do 5k per year.  It's great that you intend to drive instead of garage a car - just factor depreciation into the mix.

Over the years Porsche has had some hits and some misses with engine longevity.  The engine in a 2008 Cayman is mid- life cycle and while there were some question marks over reliability I think you'd be ok buying a good one with good service history and a thorough PPI from a specialist.

the service costs will be higher than your Mitsubishi - parts prices are higher and labor for Porsche specialists are higher.  The best thing to do is find a good independent in your area and go have a chat before buying.  They'll give you the details on that engine/gearbox combo and indicative service schedule and price.

[MFX]

As mentioned servicing is going to be a killer. One thing in your favour is that Porsche engines (and probably most engines for that matter) do a lot better when they are driven regularly. Often people go for super low mileage cars, but they come with their own problems. As mentioned the depreciation will be a big one. I would guess that you would have to factor in somewhere around 20% discount over the rest of the market if you were trying to sell a 250k km Cayman, but everything will sell for the right price.

[LeeM]

I could buy the missus an Isuzu MUX, I take on her C200 as a daily driver and get a weekend Porsche @ $60k for both ie get an older 911 or 928…..

 This ^

 Just go into Porsche ownership armed with LOTS of prior research online, advice from the honest experts, (not those that just want your money), and from those that have experienced these cars first hand over a period of time who know the regular maintenance costs

 Eye's wiiiiide open mate

[Stew F]

If you want something similar to the Evo what about a WRX?  Focus RS is an awesome car.  Forget the Focus ST. It has wicked torque steer to the point of fighting it to keep it straight under hard acceleration in lower gears.   I bought a RenaultSport Megane Cup 265. Great car, handles, brakes, accelerates, comfy, yadayadayada.. But I do some mileage with my job. Just clocked up 30000 since January last year.  

My next car will probably be a Cayman.

[jakroo]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

 

In terms of a similar car to the Evo, I'm still thinking of keeping it as well if I decided to buy a Porsche.  Suggesting a WRX instead - wash your mouth out :-)  The STI would be the right equivalent but it's like suggesting someone swap between Coke and Pepsi, or use Reebok instead of Nike, drive Ford instead of Holden.  It doesn't mattter which camp you start in, swapping is not done in polite circles LOL

Yes, resale could be a problem for either car.  If I look at the Evo, it would probably sell for 16k instead of 25-30k but mine's stock and the others would have had significant money spent on them tuning them to whatever stratospheric number they were chasing, and they will not be as quiet and tight as mine.  I don't mind the value being what it is as it really has served it's useful life and owes me nothing.  If I keep it for another 5 years, it will go up in value - it's bog standard and hence rare.  If I only drive the Evo every now and again, eventually the kms would come back to an appropriate range for age.

One other idea would be drive both Evo and Cayman approx 15k kms each year.  Boy racer or gentleman racer - I pick as the mood suits!  That might be better so I would not have to worry about getting a yellow wrap on the Cayman - blue and yellow or red and yellow.

I'll go and have a chat with a couple of independents as suggested-   BWA in Seven Hills, and Autohaus Hamilton....anyone else perhaps in the Hills district??

 

And of course there are you guys, keep on sending the advice through, this place should be able to give me the answers as well......

 

 

[Whytar]

The following comments are just my opinion and hopefully I dont get shot down:

Although Porsches are generally very reliable sportscars and will do miles with little trouble (provided they are well maintained) they do tend to lend themselves to more 'occasional' use as servicing isn't as cheap as more high volume cars, and they will depreciate with lots of odometer action.

I personally drive a Nissan Navara diesel as a daily (which was under $9000 second=hand) and this makes a great commuter and workhorse, then I use the 911 as a special occassion car. I really see no point in using a Porsche as a daily driver as 1. it gets knocked around and deteriorates no matter how well you care for it, and 2. it becomes less special to drive when you drop your backside into it every morning and afternoon.

I will always recommend the 'cheap daily/expensive toy' model as it preserves the condition and aura of the Porsche, while giving you piece of mind on driving a daily into the ground and not worrying about the consequences...

[Al]

Think outside the box and go a Volvo XC90 with the reliable Yamaha V8 engine. Japanese reliability and Swedish class as a daily.

Then do this (crank the volume and enjoy):

Oh.. and an old 911 as a sunday cafe racer. 

[bear924]

I've enjoyed this thread as your dilemma is similar to mine. I drive 40k km every year... mostly highway (country road) driving. I've been doing this now for 9 years and have followed Whytar's principal of purchasing a cheap daily (falcon in my case) and then keeping the Porsche's for special occasions. My falcon is now approaching 300k km and I''ve been throwing around ideas similar to yours. One option you didn't mention is to purchase an older Porsche (thinking 944/ 928), spend some money sorting it out.. then use it as a daily. After driving it for a few years give it a birthday and then start again.  There are a bunch of drawbacks to this approach however is an alternative approach. To me the largest negative is that I want to to drive my daily without the need to tinker.. prefer to exhaust my tinker energy on my 'fun'cars.

I do suspect that driving most Porsche's daily could take the gloss off the relationship though... perhaps alternating the Porsche with the Evo might work?

[Macca]

I blessed mine at PFA track day for a 200,000kms birthday - it is my daily (3hrs run total a day) , my kids smear macca's and kfc without fail but every time I turn the key I feel occasion and I have not lost any love for her. Two cars with two rego and running costs = one P daily car  

Life is short - enjoy

[Pokiou]

High KM in a Porsche is like dating a Victoria Secret Model who has had a few boyfriends... who cares... 

[jakroo]

So far, I think just about all scenarios I've thought of have been recommended by at least one person....just goes to show that my inability to choose one would be the same for any number of people.

I do like that crackle and pop on the Volvo! 

My commonsense side would take Whytar's suggestion, although I didn't show this side of me when I bought the Evo and decided to drive it every day.  The Evo drivers I canvassed at the time also had the same opinion - buy a daily and keep the Evo for special times.

What I did do previously with the Evo, was the same as Macca's approach - one car for all occasions and deal with the consequences at the time.  This time though it is different, this time it will be about the same money ($55+k) but I'll be buying a second hand car that is already a handful of years old.  It's clear from your responses that service can be costly, and history is so important (my Evo has 55 service dealer stamps in it, 1 every 5k kms....impeccable), so that sounds like it is will be one of the first things I look at.

But then there is the cost of all of this.  A MUX, a C200 and a Cayman - 3 cars = lots of rego, insurance etc and it's not like I have a money tree growing in my 25 acres (although I should have started my Christmas tree 'cash crop' a long time ago).  Not to mention being under a lot of pressure (from both my wife and son) to keep the Evo.  Perhaps I need to ditch the C200 as well.

There is no doubt that how you drive something also has an major impact.  You can thrash something and even though you may spend all the money needed to keep it going, it will still not be as good as one that hasn't been thrashed.  This is harder to spot as you can disguise this to a fair degree....hence a good PPI I presume.

Resale of high odometer machines is a little more difficult due to potential owners being concerned over engine longevity but at that point, it could well be a candidate for a track weapon and then the engine, clutch and brakes will be freshened up and be part of the new owner's purchase plans.  And if I don't keep the Evo, this is my target purchaser.

This is not easy, thank goodness I have time to think about it now and not need to purchase anything until later this year.

 

[brian in buddina]

do a public spread sheet on 3 scenarios. 

clarify your assumptions

include the cost of money, depreciation &&&

publish the results.

[sleazius]

If you can afford it, get an older 911 coupe in manual (sunroof delete a bonus). If you're worried about depreciation that is the best way to guard against it. Far as servicing goes long as you stick with the independents you'll pay less than servicing a late model euro through a dealer. If you can drop the oil yourself, do that, you'll save a couple of hundred every time.

Buying a fun car is an emotive purchase. They almost never make sense financially.

[jakroo]

Buying a fun car is an emotive purchase. They almost never make sense financially.

Yes, you're right which is why Brian's post above yours won't fly.....what he didn't include was the 'fun factor' variable and by tweaking it, one could make any car price much more palatable and therefore turn it in to a 'you'd be an idiot if you didn't buy it' result :-)

[clutch-monkey]

 

I do suspect that driving most Porsche's daily could take the gloss off the relationship though... perhaps alternating the Porsche with the Evo might work?

this is what i found.

put the km's on the daily, only put fun km's on the 911.

 

[ANF]

I cannot see the point of having a Porsche and then driving around in a "shitter" as a daily, goes against why I would buy a quality car ..... if you don't want to wear out the Porsche  get something else that is still high quality......

[clutch-monkey]

apart from paying premium service costs on a nice car to sit in traffic being a waste of money; with the quality of driving skill in this country, there is nothing more care free than getting around in something you don't care about at all. i never have to worry about people opening doors into my car, or where i park it, or if i get rear ended..

[LeeM]

I cannot see the point of having a Porsche and then driving around in a "shitter" as a daily

Makes the Porsche feel even better if you're driving a junker during the week  

[ANF]

Sorry I just don't get it. The reasons I buy are Porsche are the same ones I buy my Mercedes, while it does not provide the driving thrill of the Porsche it is still extremely well engineered and designed, has a quality and well designed interior, exterior, mechanicals, brakes, handling and crash protection - one thing that you do need to combat all the morons out there on the road. Maybe it is just me but I want quality ALL the time

Plus having one Mercedes save my life I would never put myself or my family in anything cheap ever again.

And the service costs of my Mercedes are no worse than anything else out there.

[clutch-monkey]

Sorry I just don't get it. The reasons I buy are Porsche are the same ones I buy my Mercedes, while it does not provide the driving thrill of the Porsche it is still extremely well engineered and designed, has a quality and well designed interior, exterior, mechanicals, brakes, handling and crash protection - one thing that you do need to combat all the morons out there on the road. Maybe it is just me but I want quality ALL the time

Plus having one Mercedes save my life I would never put myself or my family in anything cheap ever again.

And the service costs of my Mercedes are no worse than anything else out there.

sounds nice and all, but my shitter rodeo was a hoot when flicked down the beach or a gravel road at 11/10th's, and if it ends up in a ditch, just walk away.

never underestimate the thrill of a shit car driven outside it's envelope!
i could never waste money on a premium level daily driver. it's just a tool to get to and from work, 25 min total per day. the 911 is for proper driving.

[ANF]

 and if it ends up in a ditch, just walk away.

My point being that you may well not! Even more so if one of the morons on the road helps you into the ditch.

but each to their own

 

[clutch-monkey]

My point being that you may well not! Even more so if one of the morons on the road helps you into the ditch.

but each to their own

 

 

in fairness, it's a rodeo- it feels fast but you're not actually going that fast
am now in a land rover, i'll never get a speeding ticket again in that thing.

[Al]

no look you have it all wrong. There is only one make that exceeds Porsche in everyway.. Volvo!

I travel daily in a safety cage of Boron Steel (not boring steel).