IMS Solution

[yangin]

Hi all,

I have been quoted approx 5k for a IMS solution replacement. Does this sound reasonable? Note it is for the LN solution, not just bearing retrofit.

Also, what should I expect to pay to have RMS, clutch + fluids done at the same time? Looks like I should be budgeting about 7k total?

Seems steep for a car I paid 40k for... any suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks.

[firstone]

Which model do you have?

[D2000]

Sounds about right. I had solution and RMS done and it was somewhere around the $5k mark. The price of doing it is why you only had to pay $40k for your car!

[Philbee]

You can buy a roller for $30k but an air filter still costs you $2k. It's more about the original  RRP not your buy price, you should gauge the value I reckon...

what car & model r we talkin'?

[Pokiou]

that sounds WAY to expensive. Once you drop the gearbox its right there... If you have a 1997-1999 Porsche 0996 you possibly have the dual row. Which are pretty reliable aslong as you keep the service up to date. 

[yangin]

Which model do you have?

1998 model 996

that sounds WAY to expensive. Once you drop the gearbox its right there... If you have a 1997-1999 Porsche 0996 you possibly have the dual row. Which are pretty reliable aslong as you keep the service up to date. 

the solution itself is 1.7k USD. So basically I have been quoted 2.5k of labour i am guessing

https://lnengineering.com/products/featured/ims-solution-for-single-row-ims-my97-01.html

 

[Pokiou]

so let me ask you, why do you need to do your IMS. 1998 models like mine came with a dual row IMS which are pretty much the best ones.

[yangin]

so let me ask you, why do you need to do your IMS. 1998 models like mine came with a dual row IMS which are pretty much the best ones.

Didnt know the 98s were the best, i actually though they may have been one of the worst effected for IMS.

Reason I am looking into this is I recently took my car for a service and there is some oil leaking from around the RMS. Mechanic suggested I change the seal, i figured might as well do IMS at the same time.

There were no metal shavings in the oil filter nor do i have any other IMS symptoms

[firstone]

A new ims bearing would be cheaper and good for 60k klms so if you not keeping it forever maybe consider that approach. 

[LeeM]

 

Reason I am looking into this is I recently took my car for a service and there is some oil leaking from around the RMS. Mechanic suggested I change the seal, i figured might as well do IMS at the same time.

Correct. If you're hanging onto the car for a while you may as well do it now. Can be a selling point to a buyer in the future knowing it's been done

[yangin]

A new ims bearing would be cheaper and good for 60k klms so if you not keeping it forever maybe consider that approach. 

i did mention this to the mechanic and he said dont waste ur time/money on this. I dont plan to keep the car beyond 50k kms...

[firstone]

Do a search on the matter. Heaps to boggle your mind if you don't read between the lines. Some good threads on here with useful links.

 

[DT]

After countless hours of reading on the subject, I decided on my 99 the IMS bearing wasn't worth worrying about. The early dual rows appear to have about a 1% failure rate compared to about 5% (I think) for the later single rows. The way the car has been driven appears to play a role, they don't like to be babied, spirited driving and high engine speed is better. So the revvier 3.4 may be helping the early cars. Tiptronics may also be more prone than manuals and this again may be due to the higher engine speeds in the manual (if driven as intended). In other words if you have an early 3.4 manual with a decent amount of k's that doesn't look like a show car, in my opinion you have nothing to worry about with the IMS bearing. Nor would I be worrying about a slight weep from the RMS. If you/the PO used Mobil1 you might want to try changing to Penrite HPR5 5W 40, it stopped the light weeping on my RMS. Unless your clutch is on the way out and/or the RMS is dripping, I would leave alone. Instead, if you're getting fluids done anyway have them check your cam deviation, variocam pad wear on the early 5 chain 3.4 is a much more worthwhile thing to worry about than IMS bearing failure, in my opinion.

[Avon]

I had my 187k kms dual row IMS yanked and replaced earlier this year (engine had to come out anyway for variocam solenoid replacement and new brake lines over engine so it was relatively cheap).  It was as good as new. Not sure I did the right thing replacing it because of the Waddington Effect

[ANF]

After countless hours of reading on the subject, I decided on my 99 the IMS bearing wasn't worth worrying about. The early dual rows appear to have about a 1% failure rate compared to about 5% (I think) for the later single rows. The way the car has been driven appears to play a role, they don't like to be babied, spirited driving and high engine speed is better. So the revvier 3.4 may be helping the early cars. Tiptronics may also be more prone than manuals and this again may be due to the higher engine speeds in the manual (if driven as intended). In other words if you have an early 3.4 manual with a decent amount of k's that doesn't look like a show car, in my opinion you have nothing to worry about with the IMS bearing. Nor would I be worrying about a slight weep from the RMS. If you/the PO used Mobil1 you might want to try changing to Penrite HPR5 5W 40, it stopped the light weeping on my RMS. Unless your clutch is on the way out and/or the RMS is dripping, I would leave alone. Instead, if you're getting fluids done anyway have them check your cam deviation, variocam pad wear on the early 5 chain 3.4 is a much more worthwhile thing to worry about than IMS bearing failure, in my opinion.

This sounds like the correct way to proceed to me. With such a low failure rate it means that lots are going good distances, also the replacement "solutions" have a much shorter lifespan than the original bearing. There seems to be a lot of noise in the US about it, so I wonder if very cold conditions have an impact?

I agree that with such a low failure rate external forces/ conditions must come into play.

[yangin]

After countless hours of reading on the subject, I decided on my 99 the IMS bearing wasn't worth worrying about. The early dual rows appear to have about a 1% failure rate compared to about 5% (I think) for the later single rows. The way the car has been driven appears to play a role, they don't like to be babied, spirited driving and high engine speed is better. So the revvier 3.4 may be helping the early cars. Tiptronics may also be more prone than manuals and this again may be due to the higher engine speeds in the manual (if driven as intended). In other words if you have an early 3.4 manual with a decent amount of k's that doesn't look like a show car, in my opinion you have nothing to worry about with the IMS bearing. Nor would I be worrying about a slight weep from the RMS. If you/the PO used Mobil1 you might want to try changing to Penrite HPR5 5W 40, it stopped the light weeping on my RMS. Unless your clutch is on the way out and/or the RMS is dripping, I would leave alone. Instead, if you're getting fluids done anyway have them check your cam deviation, variocam pad wear on the early 5 chain 3.4 is a much more worthwhile thing to worry about than IMS bearing failure, in my opinion.

The rms seems to be dripping slightly, i would estimate about a drop every few days... i will try penrite next time see if this helps.

Looks like the consenus is to leave the bearings until there is some cause for concern.

Appreciate the insight all.

[quasio]

5k is fine and about right, i'd probably do it when the clutch is going and do both at the same time.

Depends on you and how risk adverse you are, i did it as a precaution and i hope to keep the car for awhile, and it's a good selling point anyway. You probably don't have to go the whole hog, but the labor here is so expensive anyway you might as well.

Mine's single row, and when it came out it looks fine to me, however in the other ims thread, someone took theirs and he felt like it's on the way out.

 

 

[DT]

I had my 187k kms dual row IMS yanked and replaced earlier this year (engine had to come out anyway for variocam solenoid replacement and new brake lines over engine so it was relatively cheap).  It was as good as new. Not sure I did the right thing replacing it because of the Waddington effect

Good to hear Avon. Did they check/replace the variocam pads when they did the solenoid?

This sounds like the correct way to proceed to me. With such a low failure rate it means that lots are going good distances, also the replacement "solutions" have a much shorter lifespan than the original bearing. There seems to be a lot of noise in the US about it, so I wonder if very cold conditions have an impact?

I agree that with such a low failure rate external forces/ conditions must come into play.

I think Yangin is talking about the 'IMS Solution' which is a plain bearing, the designer of said bearing gets very upset when people refer to his design along with all the other 'solutions'. And I have to admit it does appear to be the best way to go if all the IMS bearing talk is making your bowels quiver. Not sure if the cold has any impact on precipitating IMS bearing failure, perhaps more so bore scoring.

[Avon]

Good to hear Avon. Did they check/replace the variocam pads when they did the solenoid?

 

No - apparently they were just fine.  Mechanic couldn't contact me so it was their decision.  As they know more than me I have to trust their judgement

[DT]

No - apparently they were just fine.  Mechanic couldn't contact me so it was their decision.  As they know more than me I have to trust their judgement

That's good to hear too. Interesting to know if they're the originals or have been replaced at some stage. Any record of prior replacement?

[Pokiou]

I like this waddington guy, What he says is true.

[Zelrik911]

IMO all IMS bearings are going to fail. It will be just dumb luck if it happens to you either while in Warranty or if you sell the car before it happens.

You cannot properly gauge the wear on the IMS bearing unless you cut it open (& destroy it) to inspect. It is silly to not replace it whenever there is an opportunity.

 

[Pokiou]

Sorry Zelrik911, but do you have any documentation supporting the claim that all IMS bearings will fail. I'd be interested in reading more on it.

[WOKA]

There was a bloke here on the forum who to and fro'd with replacing his IMS - meanwhile, his suffered catastrophic failure and a massive hit to the back pocket.  

You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't..  

When I bought my 996 (I was shopping with around 40k) I factored in the IMS and clutch replacement for absolute piece of mind, so my end budget was actually closer to 50k.  18 months ago I was reckoning on 7k for IMS Solution and clutch, so your quote sounds reasonable enough..  As it turned out I happened on a car with all having recently being done.  I wouldn't have not had / got a car without the upgrade.  Good insurance, and as mentioned helps resale down the line.

Wrestle with those demons and good luck.!

[quasio]

yeh in the end it's the risk you're willing to take on, the only numbers out there are something like 5% for 996.2's and 1% for 996.1s from that class action in US, (and that's only america with a different range of fuels/climate/oils etc.) 

I would probably say it isn't a sure-fail part, but i would say it isn't the strongest part of the engine. Also i reckon that most that would've failed, would've failed by now. 

I'm similar to Woka, factored the cost in when i was buying, and wanted to do the clutch anyway, so was a good time.

My total was 8.5k with clutch/engine mounts/rms and ims solution.  UK car was a touch harder to work on and i'm in WA, and everything is more exp in WA.