SENSORS FOR CROSSING BROKEN LINES

[OZ930]

There you go, unfamiliar road, slippery and with the  rain, was unable to clearly sight the centre line.

[StevepGT3]

They are much better at working out how to take money and dignity away from us than than we are at hanging on to both. 

[Niko]

Thanks Gary, I didn't want to obviously nominate anyone involved.  

But I thought it was prudent to let our members know what had happened, to the best of my knowledge, so they could be aware of what is or isn't out there.

Great that your contesting it.   Be interesting to see if it goes any further than your application to contest.

I would think you would also have corroboration from the other person involved re the story given by the officer should you need it.

Thanks for errrr "coming out" (Can I still use that term)

It certainly put a dampner on the 3 dayer for all of us.

Good luck with it.

ps...

I reckon he was still setting up when the majority of us went past.  

 I think he may have also mentioned to the other person pinged, that the tapes or whatever they are, had been set up the day before, they had left them set up over night, only to find they had been removed/stolen when he had arrived that morning.

So he had to re set up some new ones..... just in time for us......

[Eddy]

I am the lucky one because 11 cars in front of me at least 20 mins away and 2 cars behind me also 20 mins or more. I am driving slow because I believe 2 cars behind me will catch up then we can cruise together.

I am confident the 2 cars are innocent.

[garypgt3]

Yes you are correct Niko. The police had a good day the day before (was lovely weather) and they inadvertently left the tapes installed overnight for the next day. Saturday morning and they were complaining to me that someone had removed the tapes overnight. They must have just setup again after the large group went by. In some ways they were a little apologetic and could not give us a warning as their sargeant would get suspicious of a reading but no recorded infringement!

[Raven]

Every one on the thread is off no doubt that this is an appalling act of revenue raising that has gone to far and that those involved are just victims of being simply in the wrong place at the wrong time  ..................The question is if you choose to fight the infringement and have your day in court how does one prove with out a doubt your being wrong done by ...The officers who issued the infringement will not be present and the police prosecution will have the fraudulent data to justify the fine ............How to you cast doubt on the data ...

[Troubleshooter]

 

2 hours ago, garypgt3 said:

OK. I own up. I was one of the 2 drivers.  I was advised by one of the officers that there had been several head on crashes on bends (particularly motorcycles) and Vic Roads had contracted the  Highway Patrol to enforce driving on the left. Supposedly tapes placed to the right of the centre line (broken lines at that) on the exit of a tight narrow left hander. Not driving too fast as the area had been subject to a heavy downpour and associated road debris. The road from the corner dropped down about 50 feet to a right hander. Police were parked in a pull over on that corner. The infringement was for "Fail to keep left of a dividing line".  Please note that the lines are not double or solid lines. If I had my right indicator on, then the move would be legal. He did not want to know if I was avoiding something on the road. Whilst the officer pointed out the location of the corner amongst the trees, there is no way he could visually sight the tapes. He would see the car through the trees so I assume that some audible sound from his equipment was made. There was no physical proof of an image or reading shown to me on their equipment in the car. My co offender who had been there some 5 minutes told me later that the officer was nowhere near the equipment when he  moved to wave me in. As I was the only car in either direction, he would have clearly heard me coming . That's it. No drink driving/drug tests. No registration checks. No RWC inspections. No Permit log books checks. Job done. Thanks very much. I drive on roads like these nearly everyday in the Dandenongs and  it is very unusual that I drive out of a left hand corner on the wrong side of the road.

In hindsight, I should have taken up the offer of walking back to sight the tapes and asked for some proof of the offence but is was raining, was about 100 or more feet up the hill and the rest of the tour group were ahead waiting.

I am seeking a review of the infringement.

1984 indeed. Did the police person reference you as Sir, Madam, Ze or Xe .... If the points and/or principal are worth your time and effort fighting for, as Trev said above - ask this guy about it: http://trafficlaw.com.au/

Otherwise, begrudgingly hand over your hardearned and another increment of your self respect, and put it in that ever growing corner of your mind that we all have, where we compartmentalise the increasingly unjust infringements of our rights and actions....

[Peter M]

What are these lane sensors?  How are they temporarily affixed to the centreline safely? 

This isn't an easy thing to do.  It's hard enough doing transverse tubes for traffic counts and they're not subject to sideways scrubbing forces a lane sensor would be at the location described.  Also on a road with little sight distance, the Police or the roads authority would need to temporarily close the road to do the installation safely.  How would they ensure the sensor strip doesn't come loose and create a hazard to motorcyclists particularly?  Epoxy to the top of the lane marking? Both aren't cheap or quick exercises that one Highway Patrol car could do.

Knowing VicRoads there would a specification to cover such equipment and a Traffic Control Plan for the safe installation and removal.  A Google search doesn't bring up anything.

When have the Highway Patrol ever "contracted" to VicRoads?  They "partner" on road safety initiatives, but not contract.

My moneys on bullshit and the Police have used binoculars or bluff. Or if there were raised pavement markers (reflectors) on the centreline, they used their ears.  

[OZ930]

On 30/03/2018 at 8:17 PM, DJM said:

is today 1 April.......?  

Today is though.

[Redracn]

If the sensors did not offer the same or better grip than the normal road surface then I reckon a charge of reckless endangerment could be made against the cop and if it contributed to an accident then jail time would be justified for the person who decided to put them there. 

My money is on this being a bluff and they have their fingers crossed no one takes it to court where the cop will need to show up and make his case and face cross examination.  The equipment/methods etc would also be placed under close scrutiny. Without direct line of sight of the entire road or video they have no solid evidence an offense was committed given there are many legal reasons to cross a dotted line.

I would like to follow a cop along that road with a camera. I bet he would need to hand in his badge at the end.

[OZ930]

Why would an officer offer to leave his post to walk up this road, that has limited visibility, on a crap day, to show you the set up, creating a dangerous situatuation and potentially missing more revenue?

They haven't in the past, in fact going to extremes to stop people from finding their hide.

Then the equipment is down the road and another person witnessed the officer being nowhere near this equipment when he pulled over a second vehicle for the same offence.

Hmmmmm

[Niko]

I'm betting that when Gary submits the application to go to court, it will be withdrawn..

If it does go ahead, then the truth will come out, but hopefully we may learn more earlier, now that it is out there.

So, if you belong to any other car clubs etc it might be worth finding out if anyone else has been pinged in this manner and what was the end result.

I'm hoping we (me) are not crying wolf, and causing undue stress, when you should be out enjoying your cars, but we (me) can only call it as it happened.

I guess in the long run, until we get clarification, you make your own minds up as to your driving style.

And thanks again Gary for clarifying what happened to you.

[TrevMcRev]

I asked on Barrister Sean Hardy's Trafficlaw forum and got the following response from him:

if the police have video of it, or saw it, then they have a good chance of winning.
You will find out if your chance of winning is any good after you get the police brief. The difficulties the prosecution will have if they rely on sensors are significant.

[TrevMcRev]

And a reply from someone else on there:

Yeah I've read about this setup elsewhere

Apparently they are putting rubber strips on the road to detect vehicles, the kind we normally see used for traffic counters. Those strips can detect direction of travel. They may or may not be connected to a camera.

So if you run across them in the wrong direction then a photo is taken and then the armed money gatherers are positioned up the road to collect your payment information, which makes everyone safer.

[Niko]

1 hour ago, TrevMcRev said:

And a reply from someone else on there:

Yeah I've read about this setup elsewhere

Apparently they are putting rubber strips on the road to detect vehicles, the kind we normally see used for traffic counters. Those strips can detect direction of travel. They may or may not be connected to a camera.

So if you run across them in the wrong direction then a photo is taken and then the armed money gatherers are positioned up the road to collect your payment information, which makes everyone safer.

Phew....Thanks for that, now I feel much better and safer.   I will be able to sleep like a baby at night.

As long as I don't have a home invasion..

[tazzieman]

Before long all roads will have sensors that enable all the networked smartarsecars to talk to each other (in binary) and thus avoid all accidents.
Meanwhile you can sit back and spread the newspaper across your lap(s).
Hang on , will they have newspapers then?

Frank Birtles is spinning in his grave

[OZ930]

1 hour ago, tazzieman said:

Before long all roads will have sensors that enable all the networked smartarsecars to talk to each other (in binary) and thus avoid all accidents.
Meanwhile you can sit back and spread the newspaper across your lap(s).
Hang on , will they have newspapers then?

Frank Birtles is spinning in his grave

 

 

http://www.nma.gov.au/collections/highlights/sundowner_bean_car

Thanks Tassie, interesting history.

[tazzieman]

Nearly finished Warren's book. A must read , unbelievable exploits.

[Troubleshooter]

17 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

Nearly finished Warren's book. A must read , unbelievable exploits.

That's a great clip Tassie geez those blokes must've had gonads of steel " Birtles returned to Fremantle, Western Australia, and on 26 December 1905 left to cycle to Melbourne, an achievement which attracted widespread attention as it was the first west to east bicycle crossing of the country. in 1927 the first man to drive a car from England to Australia. Birtles had set a speed record driving from Darwin to Melbourne the previous year." etc etc etc........

In the video I had to laugh at "now run along young fella" his lips said F off or P off

[tazzieman]

42 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

.In the video I had to laugh at "now run along young fella" his lips said F off or P off

I'll have to find the quote in the book that mention's Frank's legendary swearing.
The book is well worth a read ; I guarantee you will always feel guilty about slight discomfort in any guise afterwards!
Death adder in your swag? No worries!

 

[Troubleshooter]

13 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

I'll have to find the quote in the book that mention's Frank's legendary swearing.
The book is well worth a read ; I guarantee you will always feel guilty about slight discomfort in any guise afterwards!
Death adder in your swag? No worries!

 

Extremely important that guys like this' historic lives (the world over) are never forgotten 

[OZ930]

I thought it was funny when he burnt his hand on the radiator 

[tazzieman]

4 hours ago, OZ930 said:

I thought it was funny when he burnt his hand on the radiator 

He was nearly burnt to death twice in his life. The last time it involved many litres of petrol. He was in the habit of removing the exhaust & manifold from his cars as he believed they just reduced power. Important when you load up a 1920s car up with 300L fuel and many many kg of supplies.
The fact that flames shot of the engine and that he was constantly covered in thick grass seeds and driving through thick scrub did not really reduce his chances of a fiery death.

[Harvs11]

On 4/2/2018 at 4:59 PM, TrevMcRev said:

And a reply from someone else on there:

Yeah I've read about this setup elsewhere

Apparently they are putting rubber strips on the road to detect vehicles, the kind we normally see used for traffic counters. Those strips can detect direction of travel. They may or may not be connected to a camera.

So if you run across them in the wrong direction then a photo is taken and then the armed money gatherers are positioned up the road to collect your payment information, which makes everyone safer.

back on topic...

My motorcycling mate had a good look at the rubber strips attached to the road at this particular corner.  He believes they were the old style amphometer rubber tubes nailed down at 90 degrees to the centre line.   They got his attention as he didn't want to run over them in the wet slippery conditions.  (imagine the shit-storm  if they'd caused a crash)  His recollection is there was line-of-sight to the HP setup down the road.  

[tazzieman]

Watch out for batons ,  pepper spray and a hose if you back chat.