D-banger Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 OK, can someone tell me if this one at $47k has something wrong? Is it just year, mileage, tip + color combo making it entry level 993? At that sort of price it seems more desirable than a 3.2 with an extra 100k on it, even with the auto. I pulled this post by coastr from another thread. Not sure what car you are referring to coastr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Well, just trying to get a handle on 993 prices, they seem to vary widely. Decent impact bumper 3.2 s seem to be advertised up from 40k up to about 60k. 993 prices seem to start in the high 40s and go vertical from there. I understand that the s models are sought after and go for big money, but the cooking 993s - surely one of these would be just as good as 3.2, even in an auto? The way I see it you're getting a bigger motor and a well sorted car for about the same money, with a few creature comforts thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Oh I posted a link in the other thread, but it appears not to have appeared. It's a white 993 tip for 47k on car sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBayChris Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 I recently picked up my first porsche - a 94 993 coupe tip. Had been looking for a while when a black/black. Full service history. BOught it same day from interstate unseen (no ppi). Decided to buy it as mother in law was dying of cancer and said not to waste time as life too short). Took it to 9+ in Richmond (great place) and it cost be a couple of thousand dollars to get roadworthy. They were amazed at the price and the condition. Is being used as my daily driver (damn hot today) and am loving even km. So, tell me, how can I buy this for approximately $45k including switching back to original wheels, roadworthy, stamp duty etc, where other 94 tips are in the 60s and 70s? Mine has done 125,000 km. Are they almost twice as good? I also missed one in Feb2012, a 94 white tip in qld . Sold for $42 if I recall due to divorce. Mine cam from wholesale. Or perhaps the sellers don't really want to sell? Chrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 I recently picked up my first porsche - a 94 993 coupe tip. Had been looking for a while when a black/black appeared for$39k. Full service history. BOught it same day from interstate unseen (no ppi). Decided to buy it as mother in law was dying of cancer and said not to waste time as life too short). Took it to 9+ in Richmond (great place) and it cost be a couple of thousand dollars to get roadworthy. They were amazed at the price and the condition. Is being used as my daily driver (damn hot today) and am loving even km. So, tell me, how can I buy this for approximately $45k including switching back to original wheels, roadworthy, stamp duty etc, where other 94 tips are in the 60s and 70s? Mine has done 125,000 km. Are they almost twice as good? I also missed one in Feb2012, a 94 white tip in qld . Sold for $42 if I recall due to divorce. Mine cam from wholesale. Or perhaps the sellers don't really want to sell? Chrid you did a good deal there! Heres my take on it. 993's are the last of the air cooled Porsches. Good ones will always command a premium price ie: FSH, above normal condition, clearly cherished. But, there is a heirachy and the c2 tips are at the bottom as they are less desirable to enthusiasts, due mainly to the sometimes perceived disconnected experience when driving a tip. It would be not uncommon for a lovely 1987-89 Carrera 3.2 or 964 Carrera 2 manual to sell for more than a c2 tip 993. Moreso the 964....with a rebuilt engine to fix oil leaks etc... At the top of the heirachy are the S models, in particular the manual C2's. Its a purist's choice for all round luft kuhlt perfektion. Although some may argue a C4S is at the top, which it may well be. The C4 normal is also desirable. Why are some tips alot more expensive than others? Perhaps people don't really want to sell and if they were to sell, they want top Dollar.......as you have demonstrated, Thats not gonna happen, ever. I have driven a few tips and, they are'nt for me as I don't drive my Porsches daily and get very frustrated when something doesn't do as I tell it......the upside is that it is impossible to over rev a tip and are less likely to have sufferred at the hands of a driver error. I would prefer a manual 911 of any vintage (except 996/997s) over a tiptronic car. I just don't like them. Then again, I didnt really like the 991 Carrera S PDK I recently drove either......so maybe I am a bit crazy? Porsches are largely enthusiast drivers cars, with that, makes the manual ones worth more...... (My father loves tips.....we argue about it all the time, Ferdinand Alexander 'Butzi' Porsche had a 993 Speedster that was a tip, so they must be ok right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 You make my point exactly Chris. What we are really talking about here is not 40k 993 tip vs a 70k 993 manual - its tip vs tip. I get that manual 993s are rare and thus worth more. And all else considered, I would prefer a manual porsche. But it seems to me that picking up a keenly priced 993 and driving it for 10 years, then looking at a manual conversion at some point would be a better bet than picking up a 3.2 for the same type of money and having to schedule in an engine rebuild at some point. Old converted sports cars seem to have about the same value as original manuals (concours market aside), so I think a tip now must be the right way to get into 993 ownership, and you can always do a manual conversion if that's what you want. The cost of converting to manual should drop as more donor cars appear through wrecks and write offs, and no doubt the aftermarket suppliers will start appearing. I think I will have to drive a 993 and see what I think. They are beautiful cars, and are now in the awkward middle years for a car when they are neither new nor yet classic. But still the last air cooled Porsches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Couldnt see conversion parts droping or becoming more prevalent... if anything they will become harder to source...dont forget its not just a box you need to look at but wiring loom, pedal assembly, speedo, starter motor, ECU etc... its a lot more work then one may think... and financially would make more sense to spend the extra and buy a manual to start with especially if you plan to keep it for 10 years or so.. alternatively if it comes down to $ then 993 Cabs in a manual box are cheaper then their coupe cousins.... I've been down the tip track before, and its ok for a daily beater but i wouldnt do it again...simply doesnt reward and engage you like a manual does And for anyone considering a tipper, please .. please do not put an exhaust on it... nothing sounds worse than a sludge box with a set of pipes !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randall Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 The cost of converting to manual should drop as more donor cars appear through wrecks and write offs, and no doubt the aftermarket suppliers will start appearing. Conversion cost is not cheap- a $17K exercise according to this add from AH. So your 40K tip becomes a 60K manual. .............This car was first delivered with a tiptronic gearbox and was then converted to manual in late 2006 at a cost of approx $17,000 ( receipt provided )........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBayChris Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Agree. I use mine daily in city traffic with a three year old in back seat (he loves it). I find the tip an easy option for stop start driving, and for being distracted by Mr in the back at every 10 seconds. Is it possible to over rev in manual tip mode, or have they blocked that? No pipes coming on mine. Intend to keep it as original as possible for better resale in the future. Plan to upgrade to c2s manual when I have a garage to store it. This one is kept on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Conversion cost is not cheap- a $17K exercise according to this add from AH. So your 40K tip becomes a 60K manual. $17K......on a good day!!! I'm with Bad930 on this. Conversion prices will go up if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 And for anyone considering a tipper, please .. please do not put an exhaust on it... nothing sounds worse than a sludge box with a set of pipes !!! let's leave the auto's with farty exhausts to the falcodores and kiadai's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 let's leave the auto's with farty exhausts to the falcodores and kiadai's Oooh, thems fighting words for some on this forum. Not to mention one particularly nice 993S which happens to be a tip with Fister Stage-2s. I think you guys may eat a little humble pie next time you are behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 12December, 2012 Report Share Posted 12December, 2012 Oooh, thems fighting words for some on this forum. Not to mention one particularly nice 993S which happens to be a tip with Fister Stage-2s. I think you guys may eat a little humble pie next time you are behind it. How about a Sound Nacht SMT to really get the debate going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Been some interesting posts in this thread which if I am totally honest arent making me feel all that good. I guess I am beginning to understand what it must be like to be a minority race living amongst others who have this mistaken believe of superiority... :( Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 How about a Sound Nacht SMT to really get the debate going? I'm not 18 any more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Been some interesting posts in this thread which if I am totally honest arent making me feel all that good. I guess I am beginning to understand what it must be like to be a minority race living amongst others who have this mistaken believe of superiority... :( Chris Fair call Chris. The reality is that most 993 delivered to Australia, keeping the Turbo/RS aside, were Tips. Porsche were obviously more than happy to produce the 993 with this option. I own a manual because that suits me and what I want out of my car, however I have had the pleasure of driving Chris's S and as much as its a different approach I have also found it difficult in my C4 to keep up to him at times through the twisties. As for the exhaust sound on his car. Sensational.....I should know as I fitted the mufflers. Now what you guys may not know is that he has also owned a 930 for a number of years. Gee, going from that to a 993S Tip....I reckon he's pretty happy based on the smile on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Fair call Chris. The reality is that most 993 delivered to Australia, keeping the Turbo/RS aside, were Tips. Porsche were obviously more than happy to produce the 993 with this option. I own a manual because that suits me and what I want out of my car, however I have had the pleasure of driving Chris's S and as much as its a different approach I have also found it difficult in my C4 to keep up to him at times through the twisties. As for the exhaust sound on his car. Sensational.....I should know as I fitted the mufflers. Now what you guys may not know is that he has also owned a 930 for a number of years. Gee, going from that to a 993S Tip....I reckon he's pretty happy based on the smile on his face. Well said Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J. Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 i guess unless you've driven or owned a tip you cant really comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Been some interesting posts in this thread which if I am totally honest arent making me feel all that good. I guess I am beginning to understand what it must be like to be a minority race living amongst others who have this mistaken believe of superiority... :( Chris Not following here -care to elaborate? I get the conversion costs are bigger than I thought, I didn't know about some of the other thighs. But then I haben't seen a manual 993 for anything less than 80k either. If you want to get into 993 ownership then the manual premium is a massive step up if you're on a budget. I guess my point here is less about man vs tip 993 but more about c3.2 vs tip 993. You lose on the transmission front, but you gain on the kms, the mod-cons and the displacement, but you still haven"t bought a steamer. I will have to drive both but right now I'm leaning towards tip 993 as a value proposition based and love of the look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-banger Posted 13December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Hi Chris, Back to the subject on hand. It's a personal choice based on each persons' individual parameters. Pros: Tip 993 - last of the air-cooled - more modern look - A/C that works - more modern safety features - more horses - solid motor/drive train - resale value (I don't know, sounds like they are still falling???) Cons: Tip 993 - less driver involvement, if thats your thing (heel & toe, double clutch... Pros: 3.2 - last of the classic 911/classic IB style - simpler to work on for DIY mechs - rawer car, no power steering/ABS (some see this also as a Con) - solid motor/drive train - resale value relatively stable, but drifting down with economic conditons Cons: 3.2 - Std A/C terrible - probs not that good in peak hour stop/start traffic I am sure there are more factors that can be added to the list, but I thought this might be a good starting point. I think if you are using the car as a DD the you might lean to the tipper, but having said that there are 3.2 drivers on this forum who use their car as a DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Not following here -care to elaborate? I get the conversion costs are bigger than I thought, I didn't know about some of the other thighs. But then I haben't seen a manual 993 for anything less than 80k either. If you want to get into 993 ownership then the manual premium is a massive step up if you're on a budget. I guess my point here is less about man vs tip 993 but more about c3.2 vs tip 993. You lose on the transmission front, but you gain on the kms, the mod-cons and the displacement, but you still haven"t bought a steamer. I will have to drive both but right now I'm leaning towards tip 993 as a value proposition based and love of the look. If you are prepared to wait there is the occasional DEAL on a 993 manual. I walked away from a '94 Adventurine Green with rebuilt motor for about $50K. The deal was on the table but it was interstate and.........long story, but they do exist. Be patient and you may be surprised. There are certainly some concessions you will need to make though, high kms, needs a bit of TLC etc.... I'm not certain if the on going maintenance is much different in terms of dollars though between the 3.2 and 993. No doubt the 993 Tip can be exceptional value for money in the narrow body version. Put a Steve Wong chip in it and exhaust and you'll be all smiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 High kms in 993 tend to be 150k. High kms in a 3.2 tend to be 300k. Where do these deals show up? Is it wholesale market, auctions, that sort of thing? Or do occasionally private cars,come up for sale where urgent cash is required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 I've watched the 993 tip market with a keen eye for quite a while with bad thoughts of a maunal swap. Even doing the job myself I still think you are looking at a 15k price tag. To make the pain of the swap worth doing I think you have to get the donner car at a very good price. Looking at the 3.2 v 993 debate I can't see it as anything other than Apples V Oranges. While they are both 911's they are very very different cars. Also just for the sake of it I'll throw this one out there. For the same money you can buy a tip 993 you can buy a 6 speed 996. I know I know not the same thing but stick with me here. Now instead of chucking 15 to 20k at putting a 6 speed in a 993 place 15 to 20k into building a stroker motor for the 996 while fixing the IMS/RMS problem and you would have a very fast car. Interesting hey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 That's a really interesting idea. You could build something quick and bullet proof. I know ther is a guy in WA getting around in a very quick 993 Tip which has a TPC supercharger in it. 10K and you are Turbo quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 13December, 2012 Report Share Posted 13December, 2012 Coastr, Doug's response is a very good one as he has just sold a 3.2 to get into a manual 993. So it does give you a good insight to what he was thinking about other than the Tip option which he wasn't considering. Uncle's view is also good one and I agree they are very different cars other than the shape, but both great cars..... The best advice I can give is drive a few of each, if you can. Get to know what they feel like. How they accelerate, how they stop, how they go around bends. Comfort, air con etc etc. Once you have done this then you can decide on what is the best fit for what you are looking for. Treat it as a learning exercise and have a bit of fun with it. Read as much as you can and talk to owners of both, you will find out heaps. Have fun and let us know how you are progressing in the search. I look at Carsales every day. I not looking to buy but its always interesting to see whats there and whats happening in the market. Cheers C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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