One less place to drive your Porsche

[Gavn]

Just a heads up to those who have not heard yet.  Pending any appeals, Wakefield Park is now pretty much dead as a race or trackday venue.  Essentially noise concerns from a half dozen people or so.  Having said that, I've not read through the judgement.  If there's any help in the Porsche community to be found...now's the perfect time.  Track is 2.5 hours from Sydney and 20min from the town of Goulburn...basically not close to anything. Still found to be too much of an imposition on society and is now not able to operate.  Beyond sad.

 

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/07/14/court-decision-delivers-hammer-blow-to-wakefield-park-future/

[MFX]

It is completely ridiculous that it could be essentially shut down. It really is in the middle of nowhere with nothing around. It is definitely going to hurt Goulburn in general as there is a whole lot of trade that came through and spent money in the town that will no longer be there.

[LeeM]

 They should post up the names and addresses of those who are having a sook about it.

 What a joke these people are

[Gavn]

The names are readily viewable in comments section of media articles.  Interestingly, those people also complained about the negative comments they were attracting (and that they track was not doing enough to protect them) - go figure.

I'm not sure if it's an age thing or a general reflection on society's current direction - I just feel like it's getting harder and harder to actually enjoy anything.  To think I can drive 2.5 hours away (and will happily do so) with a trailer in tow and STILL not be far enough away to enjoy a car (which can legally be driven on the road) on a track...just seems beyond belief.  There were literally 7 people complaining and that's been enough to shut the track.  I've been watching the process for two years now and it's been an interesting exercise in local politics....watching councillors nod off as they consider noise evidence by scientists (and still fail to understand the log nature of db measures)

None of the complaining parties impacted by noise lived there prior to track operation.  Stunning.

Unfortunately my professional background is useless in this area but if someone has contacts....lets see it!  You can't help but feel this could happen anywhere...

25 minutes ago, MFX said:

It is completely ridiculous that it could be essentially shut down. It really is in the middle of nowhere with nothing around. It is definitely going to hurt Goulburn in general as there is a whole lot of trade that came through and spent money in the town that will no longer be there.

Yes - I won't be visiting again.  In fact, if I ran out of petrol at Goulburn I'd happily hitch an hour down the road just to avoid the joint now.

14 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 They should post up the names and addresses of those who are having a sook about it.

 What a joke these people are

Out of respect for this forum I won't post them here..... they're easy enough to find elsewhere.

[tomo]

Yeah Fkn Councils and there strange attraction to people that have got fck all in their life, I live in a private Crt surrounded by old age folk and care facilities,   Beautyful part of the town I live in sea views and all that shit So what's Council do ? Stick one of those   OTR shit holes  right in the middle yep must agree they have not a clue .

[Dalai]

51 minutes ago, Gavin (CliffToCoast) said:

None of the complaining parties impacted by noise lived there prior to track operation.  Stunning..

^^^This. Bet they got the land cheaper because it was close to the track. Now with the track basically closed... 🤑

Happening everywhere unfortunately and is shameful. People buying apartments close to pubs playing live music or buying houses near airports then requesting curfews, even local to me was a limestone quarry that had a new housing estate built nearby and new resident's complained about the blasting! Quarry since closed!

[Raven]

9 hours ago, MFX said:

It is completely ridiculous that it could be essentially shut down. It really is in the middle of nowhere with nothing around. It is definitely going to hurt Goulburn in general as there is a whole lot of trade that came through and spent money in the town that will no longer be there.

Every time I Compete down there I spend money on accommodation , meals , fuel etc ,,,,such a shame that society in general bends over for the screaming minority these days , very tragic news indead 

I could almost put money on it that something else is going on behind closed doors ,,eg like a land developer who wants to put in a housing estate close by and wants the track gone , those 7 complaintents are most likely the ones who will benefit from this deal financially  and of course the council will get its kick back ............GRUBS $$$$

[LeeM]

 I'm sure the rest of Australia have had it happen, yet some iconic music venues here in Adelaide have had either severe noise restrictions put on pubs with live music, or been told to stop it entirely due to new housing being built, or warehouses converted to accommodation. 

 That's caused loads of grief to the venues owners, and surrounding businesses, or forced them to close, and a lot of the time it's affected a musicians livelihood. 

 I know The Bend had 1...ONE...very vocal farmer nearby who objected building the track, as the noise would scare his cows enough to not produce milk! 😅 Now really, are these f...ing idiots that stupid to think a bit of noise is going to ruin their boring, humdrum lives every now n then? 

 No matter what the topic is, its always the minority with the biggest voice, and by the sound of it, the businesses in Goulburn who probably rely on Wakefield Park being open will be the ones who are affected the most.

 Some people just need to shut up and disappear 

[Gavn]

9 hours ago, LeeM said:

 I'm sure the rest of Australia have had it happen, yet some iconic music venues here in Adelaide have had either severe noise restrictions put on pubs with live music, or been told to stop it entirely due to new housing being built, or warehouses converted to accommodation. 

 That's caused loads of grief to the venues owners, and surrounding businesses, or forced them to close, and a lot of the time it's affected a musicians livelihood. 

 I know The Bend had 1...ONE...very vocal farmer nearby who objected building the track, as the noise would scare his cows enough to not produce milk! 😅 Now really, are these f...ing idiots that stupid to think a bit of noise is going to ruin their boring, humdrum lives every now n then? 

 No matter what the topic is, its always the minority with the biggest voice, and by the sound of it, the businesses in Goulburn who probably rely on Wakefield Park being open will be the ones who are affected the most.

 Some people just need to shut up and disappear 

Two separate accomodation businesses in Goulburn watched a combined 20k cancel for this weekend alone.  Sad thing is...most of those impacted are probably not in favour of seeing the track close in any case.

[Raven]

I can not believe it is effective as of the 17th and from that date on they can only hold 4 meetings per month , typical bureaucratic nonsense 

[Gavn]

28 minutes ago, Raven said:

I can not believe it is effective as of the 17th and from that date on they can only hold 4 meetings per month , typical bureaucratic nonsense 

 Just a sad joke.  

[jakroo]

14 hours ago, LeeM said:

..... had 1...ONE...very vocal farmer nearby who objected building the track, as the noise would scare his cows enough to not produce milk! 😅 Now really, are these f...ing idiots that stupid to think a bit of noise is going to ruin their boring, humdrum lives every now n then? 

 ....

I think you'd be surprised at how noise can be off putting to animals.

Ask a chicken farmer about noise such as gun shot, engine misfire or emergency vehicle sirens. They could end up with thousands and thousands of dead birds.

Ask anyone who lives near high tension power lines about the noise emitted from them when it's rainy, foggy or even really humid. They buzz and buzz and buzz.

Ask anyone who lives near a pub that's always raucous. 

The list of opportunities for noise pollution are almost endless.

Where I live, sometimes the local dirt bike noise is okay, other times it's annoying.  No one can ride closer than 500m from me given how large my block is - it's always muted and it's carried by wind.

In the case of Wakefield, it's well established and supports a lot of local businesses.  For it's supporters, it is very unfortunate that this has occurred but if they're able to have 4 meetings then it's probably better than 0 and of course not as good as 10. But I fear that 4 is the beginning of the slippery slope to 0....

 

[LeeM]

 Fair enough re the animals I s'pose, yet if people buy a house near high tension towers, what do they expect? Would they buy a house on a main road and cry about the cars, trucks and buses? Probably 🙄

 When music venues have been going gangbusters since the 70's, then some millenial uni students and/or retirees move in near the venue, they kick up a stink because of the noise and get it closed or severely restricted. Bloody idiots with nothing better to do than try and have their lives all nice and quiet to do their studies or knit some jumpers, whilst killing someone's business 🙄

 Talking of stink. The Adelaide Mushroom farm had been there for donkeys years, yet when the new development got built, all the new resident sooks moaned about the smell on some days. They knew it was there, they knew the potential for smell yet they still bought there. Of course, they whinged enough to force the owner to spend a lot of cash to reduce the smell. It's still there, so they must've done something right to shut them up. 

 How about a local golf course that has housing lining the fairways. A mate was working there as a greenskeeper, and he told me some dickhead retiree bought a house there, then gets the sooks on and demands mega high fencing be installed to stop wayward golf balls coming into his yard. Not smashing his windows, just landing on his lawn, so he confiscates the balls. ITS A GOLF COURSE YOU TWAT!  Reckon I'd purposely do a mega slice to hit his house just to piss him off. Wanker 😅

 Obviously I'm having a sook/whinge here, yet this sorta thing and those sorta people give me the shits. It wouldn't be profitable enough to keep Wakefield park open whe they're that restricted, and I'm sure given time, they'll kick up a stink again and close it for good. I'd say that writing is already on the wall though 

[YellowDieselGolf]

The "animals" haven't had a few years to get used to the noise? 

[jakroo]

I hear you Lee and I agree with many of your points, but we do evolve our understanding as time goes on and often things change as a result. It's why asbestos, operating machinery while intoxicated, lead in paint and smoking are all banned or severely restricted. It's also why we have different fuel types (and more to come), numerous milk alternatives and a multitude of diets. Some may seem odd to us but not to those who can't use the original for whatever reason.

Existing user rights can apply and take a lot to over turn.

Operating at less than 70% will probably kill WP and eventually it'll fall in to disrepair and it'll become a development opportunity and then there will be a new housing estate. And that will be a shame as I do enjoy using it's facilities.

[Dalai]

I'm with Lee. People buying next to existing music venues, race tracks or even Mushroom farms shouldn't be allowed to lodge noise or smell complaints!

[tomo]

2 minutes ago, Dalai said:

I'm with Lee. People buying next to existing music venues, race tracks or even Mushroom farms shouldn't be allowed to lodge noise or smell complaints!

Yeah , But the old saying first  in best dressed seems to have disappeared , You can even relate it to work these days, First  person employed was always last to go, That's just a fart in the wind these days.

[sleazius]

1 hour ago, tomo said:

Yeah , But the old saying first  in best dressed seems to have disappeared , You can even relate it to work these days, First  person employed was always last to go, That's just a fart in the wind these days.

You can blame workplace laws for that. If a business’ only opportunity to punt people is via redundancy the lowest performing employees are always going to be made redundant first. Seniority means nothing.

Similarly why are businesses only employing casuals these days? Hrmmmm I wonder why?

Back to the topic at hand, Goulburn has been dying since the bypass went in. I’m sure taking another reason away for people to leave the highway won’t have any negative impacts. What could possibly go wrong?

[Joz]

Similarly in the next suburb over from us in parts of StKilda. Well you could say some streets get quite busy after hours.

So some residents bought homes in these streets at bargain $$. 
Only then soon start to complain why the council allows the trade to continue.

Caveat Emptor

🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[tomo]

13 minutes ago, Joz said:

 

Caveat Emptor

🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

But that's always been the rule for a lady of the night

[Gavn]

17 hours ago, jakroo said:

I hear you Lee and I agree with many of your points, but we do evolve our understanding as time goes on and often things change as a result. It's why asbestos, operating machinery while intoxicated, lead in paint and smoking are all banned or severely restricted. It's also why we have different fuel types (and more to come), numerous milk alternatives and a multitude of diets. Some may seem odd to us but not to those who can't use the original for whatever reason.

Existing user rights can apply and take a lot to over turn.

Operating at less than 70% will probably kill WP and eventually it'll fall in to disrepair and it'll become a development opportunity and then there will be a new housing estate. And that will be a shame as I do enjoy using it's facilities.

I reckon 4 days per month is more like operating at 15 - 20%, which is clearly not sustainable for any business or enterprise.  It's death by any name.

Lets not forget that for the past couple of years they have been very stringent on the 30m 95db limit. Two strikes and you're sent home (which is happening to cars that have oem exhausts). Now it might be worth considering, how much 95db would diminish over a distance of .....say 1.5km (which seems to be the most appropriate distance in this case)?  Well a doubling of distance is generally held to be good for 5db.  So if you have 10 cars on track all producing exactly 94db (at 95 they'd be asked to leave).....what would this cumulatively amount to?  Well we have 6 'doublings'...which would pull the impact of a single car down to 65db.  That is equivalent to restaurant conversation....or an aircon unit 30m away.  That's assuming each car makes peak db continuously and there are always 10 cars on track, which is obviously not the case.  Cmon.  The noise level at 1.6km is simply negligible in an acoustic sense.  Yes....it might be annoying compared with bucolic bliss ,but if you can't have an established racetrack in the middle of nowhere...then where the hell can you put it?  If anyone who is complaining purchased there in the last 5 years or so...they should simply be shown the door (IMO)...zero merit in that stance.  

[Joz]

It seems like the whiners have the council’s fooled.

must remember that zero Db noise level doesn’t exist out side of a controlled environment.

Also just because you can hear something in the distance doesn’t qualify it as noise pollution. It may only stand out as a non natural sound for that environment.

if anyone has an SPL meter you could measure the noise from a distance both on and off race days and find minimal difference. There would be more differences due to a brisk breeze most likely.

But of course many cars at 95db contribute an accumulated level of noise. Lots of factors to consider, but unless you live very close to a track it generally shouldn’t be an issue.

 

https://www.noisequest.psu.edu/noisebasics-basics.html

[dobbo]

I agree with Raven. I bet it's about the land and when it's closed a new housing estate will appear. I live in the hunter valley area and whole towns, hundreds of locals complain about noise,dust and blast fumes from the open cut mines and the councils and government side with the mine owners. MONEY is always trumps.   

[LeeM]

 Yet were the open cut mines there before the urban sprawl? 

 That seems to be the main issue when Ken's and Karen's start having a cry when their peaceful serenity they've bought into is interrupted. Then of course you have the developers and the investors who don't care about motorsport or whatever, as their only drive in life is to make money. 

 Look at the recent announcement of Pukekhoe track closing in NZ. That's being redeveloped to concentrate on the horse racing, as it brings in more money. It's bound to happen to Sandown eventually too, as that's basically the same scenario

[Raven]

1 hour ago, dobbo said:

I agree with Raven. I bet it's about the land and when it's closed a new housing estate will appear. I live in the hunter valley area and whole towns, hundreds of locals complain about noise,dust and blast fumes from the open cut mines and the councils and government side with the mine owners. MONEY is always trumps.   

That view of mine is just speculation I have no proof of that , but being someone who recently made huge financial gains from property sale next to the new Badgerys creek airport , I know from my dealings over past several years with Council and the Developers that I sold to how these people  operate , lets just say morals , ethics , and what is right over wrong dose not mean anything to these Development Groups ..

When Hundreds of Millions of dollars are set to be made nothing gets in the way of what Multi Million Dollar interests want ,,,, As you said MONEY is always trumps , local Councils are an easy buy for these types of Groups and part of the process of them running their business..