Porsche 982 Cayman GTS Yokohama A050s vs 981/982 GT4 Cup 2 / RE 71RS

[donR]

Though I'd start a new topic which extends on from the tyre discussion at the end of this thread here:
https://porscheforum.com.au/topic/18135-bmw-vs-porsche-supersprint-at-sydney-motor-sport-park/#comment-381179

This is my test/review of Yokohama A050s:

In the first wet session I was second fastest in Group 2 and this was with a damper failure so my car was bouncing all over the place. A050s impressive wet weather tyre and much more grip than Cup 2s, maybe even more grip in the wet than road tyres, e.g., PS4S.

Second Session - damp conditions with puddles - A050s still faster as shown in video below. 982 GT4 is on Cup 2s and 981 GT4 is on RE 71RSs (slightly faster than Cup 2s). 

Later Sessions - still some water but mostly dry - A050s still a little faster given the GT4 guys are usually a second or more faster than me depending on the track so I put it down to the additional speed/grip of the A050s.

You can see on the last lap the track gets a little greasy and the GT4 spins off the track.

Final times were: 982 GTS: 1:12.038, 982 GT4: 1:11.172, 981 GT4: 1:12.350. My previous best was 1.13.82 on Cup 2s in Feb 2021 in dry conditions. All things considering A050s maybe 1.5s faster than Cup 2s on this circuit.  

Interestingly, Paul in the 981 is usually faster than both Neville and myself so perhaps his tyres were going off a bit but in general shows that the RE 71RS is also a very fast tyre and a good option for GT4s if you can go down to 19". 

[edgy]

Very nice mate! Well done on the PB, and thanks for confirming my thoughts that I made a mistake not going A050's again this year

Interesting to me the reclassification that happened earlier this year, you're a class 3 car running competitive times with class 1 (1E sub) cars... there is almost nil class 2 cars now as a result.

That being said, looks like you've got class 3 championship in the bag, well done!  

[donR]

Thanks. Yes, edging closer and closer to 1E thanks to the new tyre set up. Shame there is not another GP cct event as that would be the true test. Although there are few other guys like Mathew Greenwood and Warwick Morris who are still fair way in front. 

Earlier this year with Alex Ugov in 3p I'd sometimes beat him on the more unfamiliar short courses by a tenth but with him on A050s I had not chance on the GP circuit. Of course he has gone to 1E now so not too much competition now. 

How did you pull up on the Cup 2s. Ended up being a great day for tyre testing! 😅

[mc968cs]

Nice laps, thanks for sharing. Interesting comment on the Tyres too.  
As a complete aside, your car’s got some grunt. Pulling near 230 down the straight on that circuit is a very good top speed. 996 and 997 gt3 straight line pace. 

[Beau]

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just a question - what phone holder are you using?  Amazing that the phone didn't budge during all those high-G sections!

[edgy]

20 hours ago, donR said:

Earlier this year with Alex Ugov in 3p I'd sometimes beat him on the more unfamiliar short courses by a tenth but with him on A050s I had not chance on the GP circuit. Of course he has gone to 1E now so not too much competition now. 

It was only a matter of time before he handed in the safe certificate...  

20 hours ago, donR said:

How did you pull up on the Cup 2s. Ended up being a great day for tyre testing! 😅

Mate I sat it out due to the weather forecast, I concluded I dont have the bandwidth to cop another wet track day, seems like a lot of others had the same chain of thought, which in fact it turned out to be good afternoon, not that I did anything enjoyable with my Sunday! At the least the pool & yard is looking nice? haha 

[donR]

On 12/10/2022 at 13:30, Beau said:

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just a question - what phone holder are you using?  Amazing that the phone didn't budge during all those high-G sections!

It's a Scosche Magnetic Vent Mount. It grips very wll in the Porsche vent and I have the magnetic plate tucked in the back of the phone cover. 

P.S. I had another look and it is actually a SPIGEN Kuel QS11 Air Vent Magnetic. They look very similar though, but the Spigen one is definitely very secure in the Porsche vent and strong magnet. 

[TwoHeadsTas]

9 hours ago, Beau said:

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just a question - what phone holder are you using?  Amazing that the phone didn't budge during all those high-G sections!

Beau, I can highly recommend the Quadlock mounts which have a positive locking plate, and a mount you can fix to the car.  Much more secure than a purely magnetic mount.  In fact, I'm really unsure why MA would allow magnetic or suction mounts, I would have thought they would be too unsafe, particularly in their current nanny state phase.....

[donR]

On 11/10/2022 at 21:26, mc968cs said:

Nice laps, thanks for sharing. Interesting comment on the Tyres too.  
As a complete aside, your car’s got some grunt. Pulling near 230 down the straight on that circuit is a very good top speed. 996 and 997 gt3 straight line pace. 

Yes, these modern cars have plenty of power and torque. Although what I've noticed is unless there is a Mclaren 720S or something similar the straight line speed differential on the main straight in more modern performance cars with 380-500hp isn't very noticeable. I guess having less aero on the GTS also reduces drag. However, I notice with a good driver the corner exit speed in a 991 or 992 GT3 is so much more such that by they end of the straight they can be doing 250kph. 

Still I'd be tempted to try a simple ECU flash which bring the hp up from ~380 to 440hp, but not sure if it would make a big difference to lap times without additional aero. Maybe a little faster on the straight. 

[mc968cs]

Porsche officially quotes .2 seconds improvement per lap on the average lap for a cayman GT4 for every 5 hp increase.  

[donR]

On 12/10/2022 at 13:30, Beau said:

Thanks for sharing!

 

Just a question - what phone holder are you using?  Amazing that the phone didn't budge during all those high-G sections!

Correction, it is a SPIGEN Kuel QS11 Air Vent Magnetic. The Spigen one is definitely very secure in the Porsche vent and strong magnet.

1 hour ago, mc968cs said:

Porsche officially quotes .2 seconds improvement per lap on the average lap for a cayman GT4 for every 5 hp increase.  

That's interesting and seems like a considerable improvement, ie., 12sec for 60hp gain, but I guess it depends on how long the lap is?

[Joz]

2 hours ago, donR said:

.That's interesting and seems like a considerable improvement, ie., 12sec for 60hp gain, but I guess it depends on how long the lap is?

Sure?

I got 2.4 secs?

But I’ve had a few drinks now 🍺 

[mc968cs]

Ha…more sure of my post than your math…..😝!

 

3 hours ago, donR said:

That's interesting and seems like a considerable improvement, ie., 12sec for 60hp gain, but I guess it depends on how long the lap is?

 

[donR]

Thanks 2.4s seems more like it! 😆

[donR]

Just as a follow up to the A050s. Had the opportunity to test on the SMSP GP/Gardiner cct the other night.

This was an advanced group night session although still alot of traffic so difficult to get consistent laps and two cars with engine failure so had limited runs, but did manage this reasonably clean lap improving my PB on Cup 2s by 1.9s so quite a margin just with tyres! Tread was getting a bit low with third track cycle but they still seem reasonably grippy. 

 

[Peter John]

Thanks for sharing! I’m awaiting next year for fitting a050’s but currently am using up last of my a052’s (rear at least) which I’ve been very happy with. I’ve not tried cup2 on track as took them off the car prior but I’m intrigued to see the difference between 50 and 52! 

[edgy]

Very nice @donR was this a PCSS night event? 

[donR]

On 02/12/2022 at 15:02, Peter John said:

Thanks for sharing! I’m awaiting next year for fitting a050’s but currently am using up last of my a052’s (rear at least) which I’ve been very happy with. I’ve not tried cup2 on track as took them off the car prior but I’m intrigued to see the difference between 50 and 52! 

I believe A052s are reasonably fast and on par with Trofeo R so still slightly faster than Cup2. Yes, let us know how much faster you find the A050s, I'm still thinking at least one second depending on the track. A050s are a little more expensive than other tyres but good if you are competing in supersprints or just want to get more out of the car. I had considered Hankook Z221s mediums which are supposedly just as fast and much better value but the rear tyre is a little small in 30 profile. The other choice is the Direzza 03G but they are also very expensive. I think the Zestino 07R in the soft or medium compound is also worth considering given great value for money. 

On 12/12/2022 at 14:04, edgy said:

Very nice @donR was this a PCSS night event? 

Thanks, this was a public Driving Solutions night so hard to get a clean lap but fun all the same. Hopefully I can replicate at the next supersprint!

I had a couple of mates on A050s as well and they also posted PBs with those tyres. 

[cafe_racer]

So am I right that A050's are going to be faster than Cup 2 R?

[LeeM]

With respect to all who are experienced drivers here, a lot of 'best tyre' opinions are just that...opinions.

 What suits one driver/rider/car/bike may not suit another, as most experienced people will tell you its all about 'feel' and having the confidence in a particular tyre.

 I know for me when I raced bikes, Michelin had superior grip yet no 'feel' to them, and they'd snap loose real quick when on the limit. I was riding for a team who were sponsored by Dunlop, yet I felt they didn't have the same grip level, but had 'feel' to be able to know where the grip limit was, but I used to shred softer rears in a few laps so they got binned pretty quickly, yet my team mate raved about Dunlops and was doing the same times as me, yet he had a completely different riding style and bike set up...and he was 20kg or more lighter than me. I switched to Pirelli which had both feel and grip, and my lap times came down because I had confidence and predictability in the tyre. The team boss wasn't overly happy with the higher priced tyres though 😅

 Saying that, I often spoke to other riders and they hated Pirellis and used Michelins or Dunlops, as they instilled confidence where Pirelli didnt. 

 See my point? 

 Unless you have 3 or 4 sets of different brand tyres available on the same day to try with the same temperature and track conditions, you can't really make a definite conclusion as to what's 'best' for you. Let's not forget car/bike set up, pressures etc also changes a tyres characteristics...

Blah blah blah 😁

[donR]

On 15/12/2022 at 09:27, cafe_racer said:

So am I right that A050's are going to be faster than Cup 2 R?

Sorry I had missed this post which I just noticed as in my search for increasing gains I was curious about that "5hp extra corresponds to 0.2s/lap" although they don't say what lap length, so not sure how useful that statement is from Porsche. 

Anyway, based on my experience I'd say A050s are very close in performance to Cup 2 R, maybe even faster. As noted above on A050s I am almost 2s faster than a 1.46.5 Cup 2 lap, and probably another 0.5s in it or so. I'd say a Cup 2R on the GP circuit would be 2-3s faster but maybe some of the 3RS drivers could chime in as they would have the most experience on Cup 2Rs.

As Lee points out above it is difficult to compare given the variability of conditions, although my set up has remained very constant. 

I actually did test K1 spec Cup 2Rs on my car but they did not have the durability for me to get used to those tyres and I could not get the most out of them managing only a 1.47.2 on GP cct, but during slower track conditions. Although on their last run (3rd track day) an instructor did do a 1.45.2 which is pretty good for worn Cup 2Rs so maybe in the 1.43s with fresh Cup 2Rs and a good driver. From what I've heard they are very good for a few sessions then start to drop off.  My experience was the Cup 2Rs also didn't have the durability of the A050, but then the latter does not come in 19" or 20" so most GT cars cannot use them anyway.