Greetings Porsche people

[Orion03]

Greeting to you all.

 

I've been driving an Lotus Elise S1 for the last 14 years, and I've finally said good bye, and put her up for sale... it's been a long time, so it's time to try and make a dream come true... Time to buy a Porsche...

 

Now to the hard part....

 

Cayman, 993, or 997 ?

 

I was super keen on the 993, but that's getting old, then I bounced onto the 997! what a lovely looking car!

 

Fantastic, then started reading up on the internet..... huh? I thought when I bought a Porsche I'll get reliability?

 

What's all these talk on D shape cracks on the Cayman engines? Cylinder Scoring on the 997 engines, and IMS failures?

 

I am not keen to take up more potentially expensive issues... considering the Elise was a "Project" car already..

 

So what do you guys think? Just a case of the Internet making mountains out of molehills? or real problems?

 

Suddenly the 993 starts to look good again! Unless those blow up too? Surely not?

 

And can someone please help me, where's the good Porsche workshops around Melbourne? and how much are you guys paying for insurance and who are you guys insured with?

 

Thanks all for help.

 

I look forward to starting on a journey down Porsche land.

 

oh and my wife thinks I have to grow some chest hairs, unbutton my shirt and have gold chains in order to drive a Porsche....

[T-Man]

Decisions, decisions, decisions.............

Welcome aboard Orion.

Three very different beasts you have been looking at, and yes you will read and hear all sorts of things about issues surrounding the different models.

The 993s tend to need top end rebuilds at about 150Kms I hear. Something about the valve guides being made of cheese!

But, I purchased mine with 113kms on the clock and it has now ticked past 130kms. So I'm thinking about not driving it or selling it to an unsuspecting buyer for more than what I paid!!!

Seriously though, each of these cars are so very different to each other. You need to drive each one and make up your mind as to what suits you.

I am obviously biased for the moment. The 993 is an almost bullet proof example of the 911.

You are on the right brand at least.

[T-Man]

Oh, and tell your wife that these days Porsche owners "manscape" their chest!!!

[clutch-monkey]

oh and my wife thinks I have to grow some chest hairs, unbutton my shirt and have gold chains in order to drive a Porsche....

she is confused with corvettes i think..

 

you'll break any car if you try hard enough! you'd have to be unlucky to break a 997 or cayman.

[GC9911]

I had a 997.2 & it was a brilliant car, sold to buy a 991. If you're looking at a 997 go for the series 2 as these are the DFI engines & don't have the IMS issues of the M96/7 engines. Can't fault the 993 either.

[Caver]

...and ditch the gold chains too!

[Bully69]

All of them have their own idiosyncrasies - choose the one you like the best for your budget and enjoy with the knowledge that your path has been trod many times before...

[Orion03]

I have driven the 944,928, Boxster, Cayman, and 993

 

Loved the Cayman, Loved the 993.

 

At the moment I am leaning towards the 993 as it's got 4 seats.... so I can take the 3 year old in the back to child care, and pick up the 7 year old and friends from pottery classes etc.

 

But the 993 is getting old? how much does a top end rebuild cost?

 

e.g. what do you think of this? http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=SSE-AD-2203395

 

so I was thinking 997 now, skipping the 996 as I don't like the nose......

 

e.g. http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/dealer/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=AGC-AD-14310168

 

Is the 997.1 reliable?

 

Are the internet stuff just overblown?

 

Who are the recommended mechanics in Melbourne?

 

What are the service costs? and I see 997 recommended service is 2 years? wow that's long !

 

Which insurance company is giving the best rates?

 

Thanks all

[Hounddub]

From my understanding the early 997.1 cars were the big issue regarding engine issues....especially IMS.

But all the cars built from July 2006 onwards had the revised larger IMS and aren't an issue. Mine is a Nov 2006 build and is not affected and has run perfectly.

997.2 is obviously an improvement but I can attest to the .1 being a bloody good car. Good maintenaance, good care, Porsche quality.....nothing to be scared about.

[hugh]

Hi Orion03,

 

Maybe worth checking these threads and sending some of the commenting members a PM;

 

There is not so much info on people chasing 997's but there are a few members on here that may be able to help.

 

In relation to local mechanics, I can personally recommend Harrisons RRR, not such a fan of the 'major' operations but that's just me. Best of luck, there is plenty on helpful information on here - hopefully you can make sense of it all.

 

I personally like both the 997 & 993, both quite different cars. A 'good' 993, manual, 2wd etc. is getting hard to come by and if found are worth $$$ (there is a reason for that though!).

 

Cheers, Hugh.

[Orion03]

But all the cars built from July 2006 onwards had the revised larger IMS and aren't an issue. Mine is a Nov 2006 build and is not affected and has run perfectly.

 

from what I am reading, e.g. http://www.imsretrofit.com/ims-101/  seems like the 06 onwards version went to a bigger higher rated ball bearing, which lasts longer, but can still fail.

 

Hmmmm

 

so atm if I bought a 2005 997 i.e 997.1, I better do the IMS bearing ASAP 

 

From somewhere else in the forums someone posted that it cost them around a $2K ?

 

 

In relation to local mechanics, I can personally recommend Harrisons RRR,

 

Thanks.

[Uncle]

The best advice is read,read and read some more. Cleary you are doing this but it really is the best course of action. I'd take some of what you read with a grain of salt. The IMS issue is an issue and if I had a 996 or a 986 etc I'd be doing it just so I felt better about driving the car like so many others have said.

 

Long term I think the 993 will hold it money better than the 997 just for being oil cooled. If I had to be in the car every day I'd rather be in the 997.

In the end buy the car you like the most then look at the problems that go along with that model and address them.

Just like any other car maker Porsche have always had their weak points. Early pre 77 cars rust, 2.7's and 3 ltrs snap head studs etc etc they just do. No need to be put off you just need to understand them and work with it.

[Orion03]

Thanks Uncle,

 

At the moment I am leaning towards the 997, but check IMS condition before buying..... and factor in an IMS bearing change immediately.

 

Funny enough from this article:  http://www.imsretrofit.com/preventing-an-ims-failure/

 

Also, make sure you drive your Porsche as it was intended to be driven! Keep the engine’s RPM above 2500 rpm – your IMS bearing will thank you! The faster you spin the IMS bearing, the longer it will last and less it will wear.

[Harvs11]

oh and my wife thinks I have to grow some chest hairs, unbutton my shirt and have gold chains in order to drive a Porsche....

By the time most can afford their first Porsche, there's already too much body hair and the shirt just won't button up anymore.

 

Oh, and tell your wife that these days Porsche owners "manscape" their chest!!!

only those with noisy white coupes

 

...and ditch the gold chains too!

Sell the chains to a Fezza owner (they don't drive 'em) and put the $$ towards the Porsche.

 

Welcome to the forum and good luck with the search.

[Doish13]

Harvs you are a crack up.

My advice is get a 911 SC, shave your head and get some serious ink work done.

Welcome to the forum mate, your in good company here.

[Harvs11]

Cheers D.  A few of the threads were getting a bit heavy lately so I thought I'd join in a bit of 5H*t slinging. 

 

btw. what bits have you had shaved and inked?  (you'd better find a different forum for the pics.)

 

 

 

maybe I need to go hang in the naughty corner aka PF

[Doish13]

No comment

[Russ]

Cheers D.  A few of the threads were getting a bit heavy lately so I thought I'd join in a bit of 5H*t slinging. 

 

btw. what bits have you had shaved and inked?  (you'd better find a different forum for the pics.)

 

 

 

maybe I need to go hang in the naughty corner aka PF

 

i'm a bit slow and it took me a while to work out you're that harvs from pf......

[withers]

Thanks Uncle,

 

At the moment I am leaning towards the 997, but check IMS condition before buying..... and factor in an IMS bearing change immediately.

 

Funny enough from this article:  http://www.imsretrofit.com/preventing-an-ims-failure/

 

Also, make sure you drive your Porsche as it was intended to be driven! Keep the engine’s RPM above 2500 rpm – your IMS bearing will thank you! The faster you spin the IMS bearing, the longer it will last and less it will wear.

 

If you end up with a early 997, I would be looking at the IMS Solution not the retrofit bearing which has a limited lifespan itself.

 

I am having Weltmeister fit the IMS Solution to my 987 Boxster next Monday. Cost is approximately $1000 more than the retrofit bearing, however the IMS Solution is designed to last the life of the engine and has no moving components. It is also fed by a external oil feed to lubricate the bearing.  

 

IMS Solution is also developed by LN Engineering with Flat 6 Innovations. The same people doing the retrofit bearing. In fact, the IMS  Solution was in development prior to the retrofit ceramic bearing.

 

This solution only works for the single row ims bearing tho. There is no plan for them to develop the dual row bearing. Also, past 2006 the IMS Bearing is not serviceable.  Only way to know which one you have, is to pull out the clutch/flywheel and have a look too.

 

I've done extensive research on this for my car. And I'm not mechanically minded, so I've shown this IMS Solution to all and sundry - my mechanic brother thinks its the best way to go, as do all of my other petrol head friends.. and of course PFA. 

 

The weakest bearing is the single row IMS.  So much so that the USA have a class action against Porsche for the failures. It is estimated that somewhere in the 7 - 10% of single row bearings have failed.

 

In saying all that tho. I LOVE my 987.  Love everything about it.. there is no other car I'd rather own, with exception of a brand new 981 which I can't afford for 7 more years  so I'll put up with this 'risk' and do what I can to avoid it. 

 

So if you weren't confused already.....    here's more info on the above!

 

http://www.theimssolution.com/

 

 

Go drive a bunch of different cars, see what you like the most. Then work out the rest.... 

[withers]

I've been thinking for a while that maybe a sticky post with all the different P shops listed might be handy ie state by state.

 

Anyhoo in no particular order 

 

Victoria

 

Jocaro

Weltmeister

Harrison RRR

Auto Coupe 

Spyder 

Motion Automotive

Auto Art

 

 

Thats all I can remember now

[Jimmy]

Amanda, what made you decide to go with Weltmeister and not the others ?

[edgy]

Welcome! 

 

There is another way of avoiding IMS issues in water-cooled 911's, look at Turbo/GT3 & GT2 

 

If that isn't an option, I think the 997 C2S is a great car if you want a late model. 

[withers]

Amanda, what made you decide to go with Weltmeister and not the others ?

 

Experience Jim.  They have already done a handful of these installs. They also had the information on this solution before any of the other independents did. I have chosen them based on this alone... I figure I want a shop to do this work that knows all about it, has experience and also have a relationship with Charles Navarro from LN Engineering. Weltmeister have all of this.

 

EDIT:  Also, whilst James would warranty the supply of the LN Engineering retrofit bearing, the actual importer of the bearing into Aus wouldn't offer a warranty.  This is because in recent times there has been 2 failures of the single row retrofit bearing in this country.  The importer had to pay for a engine rebuild.  He strongly believed that failure was due to incorrect installation. Although, it could also have been due to a faulty product. 

 

I wasn't willing to take this risk. When I rang around to get info on what options I had.  It was Weltmeister that had the most information. 

[Jimmy]

Experience Jim.  They have already done a handful of these installs. They also had the information on this solution before any of the other independents did. I have chosen them based on this alone... I figure I want a shop to do this work that knows all about it, has experience and also have a relationship with Charles Navarro from LN Engineering. Weltmeister have all of this.

 

EDIT:  Also, whilst James would warranty the supply of the LN Engineering retrofit bearing, the actual importer of the bearing into Aus wouldn't offer a warranty.  This is because in recent times there has been 2 failures of the single row retrofit bearing in this country.  The importer had to pay for a engine rebuild.  He strongly believed that failure was due to incorrect installation. Although, it could also have been due to a faulty product. 

 

I wasn't willing to take this risk. When I rang around to get info on what options I had.  It was Weltmeister that had the most information. 

 

Well done Amanda, goes to show that you can never do enough research.

I have also heard of the LN failures.

So research, research and more research.

[Orion03]

That's great Amanda, thanks for all that information.

 

How much did it end up costing, parts and fitment?