German engineering, WTF!

[SimonN]

For me, one of the pleasures in working on your own car is the opportunity to better understand the thinking behid=nd how every little part ws designed and the whole package put together. Many years ago, I started my ownership of "interesting" cars with the best of British (yes, there is such a thing). Although I went through a number of marques such as Healey and Jaguar, I spent maybe too long with Triumphs and in particular, the TR range (I had a 3a, 4a, 5 and 6). This era ended due to my frustration at just how badly thought out the car were and the number of times I found myself saying WTF did they design it like that.

Then I went on to classic German engineering with a  succession of BMW's (2002, 2002 Turbo, 3.0CSi, 3.0CSL) and I spent most of the time in wonder at just how ell thought out the cars were.

So now I have started to work on my Porsche, having done very little to my RS. I understand the issues from building an air cooled flat 6, but what a bit of engineering, until today, when I had my first serious WTF moment. I decided to replace the spark plug lads, a job I must have done on many a car and one that goes down in the "beginner" category of car mechanics. I began, marveling at the smart way in which the existing wires were joined by blocks and bolted in place to keep them out of harms way. After undoing all the bolts, I began pulling the leads off the plugs, impressing myself by being able to (just get my hand into some pretty tight spots. That done, all that remained was to pull out the old leads and feed in the new ones, so I started pulling. 2 out of the three right hand leads moved, but one was locked solid. After feeling around, I became convinced it must have got trapped/pinched against something, but what, I could not tell because it was right under the air conditioning compressor (the more experienced will know what is coming!).

After another hour or so of feeling, pulling and still no movement, I decided the only way forward was to remove the compressor and a while later, it was loose but, this did not free the lead, so I had to undo the bots totally so I could push it to one side.

Which comes to the point of this. What stupid German engineer/designer thought it would be a good idea to bolt the lead down to a point that can only be reached by unbolting the compressor? WTF! I know that not all cars are sold with aircon, but by the time of the 3.2's it was pretty common. Surely somebody should have spotted that what should have been a quick and easy job, was stupidly more complex than it needed to be. Sure, it's not hard once you know what you are looking for, but surely we expect better. 

So, that's my WTF moment (for now). Who has their own stories to tell, and maybe we will get a little collection going that can serve to help others.

[Harvs11]

Here's a thought.  How often in the service life of a car do the leads need to be replaced?  I'm guessing this is the first time in car that is perhaps 25 years old.  An hour to remove a compressor is a small inconvenience for a once in a generation job.  

[jnr356]

compressor should take about 3 minutes to remove bracket maybe 10(blindfolded) ,what's the big deal

btw ,compressor removed everytime you do the tappets (every 20,000k's)

 

[turboT]

Best not to get technical on this forum Simon. Tried it several times and got exposed for being a dunce within milliseconds...

[clutch-monkey]

I feel you on the British cars.. I have a triumph spitfire and I modified/changed almost everything on it until it at least started to make sense, and it's still not a patch on my 2002. I immediately stopped with British cars as I foresee them being expensive for me!

[SimonN]

I think in your eagerness to prove what great mechanics some of you are, you seem to have missed the point f the thread....or maybe I didn't make it clear enough. Where did I say that undoing the compressor was either difficult or time consuming? The point I was making is that it is totally illogical and unnecessary to hide a fixing for the leads under the compressor. There is no reference to it in any workshop manual and it would take somebody telepathic to know it was there. In short, it doesn't matter how easy it is to work around, it is a poor piece of design. Maybe if I had previously moved the compressor I would have seen the fastening, but I would suggest that nobody would look at the job and assume you needed to undo other components just to change the leads.

So the point of this thread was to see, with the great wealth of knowledge and experience I am sure there is on this forum, what other things people have found that have not been obvious when starting a job, that isn't mentioned in the workshop manual - the sort of thing where you have undone everything obvious but you still cannot move the part, only to eventually discover some "hidden", not so obvious bolt. Maybe by pooling together some knowledge we can save each other some time and frustration.

Of course, if you actually enjoy finding this sort of thing and doing jobs that are far harder than they need to be, you shouldn't be working on Porsches but instead, go by certain British cars (Triumphs are really good for this)

[jnr356]

well it's not a difficult job,so why is it a bad piece of engineering

[StevepGT3]

here you go, piss easy to work on

[Harvs11]

here you go, piss easy to work on

Wrong thread, Steve.  I think that photo belongs here  

[SimonN]

well it's not a difficult job,so why is it a bad piece of engineering

Again, missing the point. It's not an difficult job, unless you don't know there is a hidden fixing. So do you think it is good engineering to have a hidden fixing, that not only can you not seen but which you cannot get a hand to? Do you really think it is good engineering to make you need to remove the compressor to do something as simple as change the leads? It really does break all the rules for good engineering.

But as i said, all this misses the point. The title was an attempt at humour, because of German efficiency and the fact that more than most, German cars do not have these annoying little idiosyncrasies. This thread was intended for me to say "If you are doing this job and you haven't had the compressor off before, note that there is a hidden attachment point and that you need to unbolt the compressor." Armed with that knowledge, my life would have been easier and therefore I hope others would be as well.

I should have realised that i must be stupid, not being able to anticipate a hidden attachment point and that everybody else on this forum is blessed with either xray vision or perfect intuition. 

I had hoped that little tips like that could be collected and passed on, because I personally like to help where I can and appreciate others doing so as well. I hadn't realised that the normal mode on this forum was to try to belittle people and to brush off all attempts to pass on even little snippets. At least i now know where I stand. Back to Rennlist and Pelican.

[Stew F]

Remember though that the ignition leads are an essential part of the engine that was designed from day dot, whereas the ac compressor is an add on for some but not all cars. 

[Harvs11]

I think the only one sitting in the corner wearing a pointy hat here is @turboT.   I get the point of the initial post and was only trying to put some perspective on that particular design flaw,  not trying to belittle any one for sharing their experiences. 

[TINGY]

Good on you for posting this up Simon, it will probably help someone in the future. I got where you were coming from mate and the frustration certainly came out in your post, maybe some more people will post up the PITA jobs to do on their P'cars as well and I hope you are around to read them.

[Harvs11]

For the sake of contributing appropriate responses.  WTF do 911 front brake lines have a rigid pipe which has to be disconnected from the closed tab on the strut whenever you want to move the caliper away from the rotor? 

Why not use an open slot which can allow the lines to be loosened and moved without opening up the brake lines. 

[turboT]

I think the only one sitting in the corner wearing a pointy hat here is @turboT.   I get the point of the initial post and was only trying to put some perspective on that particular design flaw,  not trying to belittle any one for sharing their experiences. 

Deferring to others who clearly know more than me has served me well Harvs....although come to think of it completely winging it has probably brought me more success  

When it comes to German engineering I have blind faith. Even if something goes wrong it is usually expensive enough that someone out there has studied for a considerable amount of their adult life to be able to fix it  

 

[jnr356]

[Harvs11]

Deferring to others who clearly know more than me has served me well Harvs....although come to think of it completely winging it has probably brought me more success  

When it comes to German engineering I have blind faith. Even if something goes wrong it is usually expensive enough that someone out there has studied for a considerable amount of their adult life to be able to fix it  

 

a wise man knows his own limitations.  

[G5032]

Hey Simon, I for one didn't think anyone was have a crack at you, or trying to be little your knowledge...I for one am happy see these type of posts rather than continuing reading about market values or anything non technical...we need more of this on PFA!

 

 

 

 

[Blue964]

here you go, piss easy to work on

hahaha, but i'm sure some folks would find something to bitch about when it comes to servicing this beast:)

[Russ]

I feel you on the British cars.. I have a triumph spitfire and I modified/changed almost everything on it until it at least started to make sense, and it's still not a patch on my 2002. I immediately stopped with British cars as I foresee them being expensive for me!

you should see the Rover Meteor on the Centurion tank. 10,000 hour filters above 100 hour replacement parts!

[Airhead]

hahaha, but i'm sure some folks would find something to bitch about when it comes to servicing this beast:)

Why is that grill in the way? I can't get to the exhaust widgit.

[WOKA]

here you go, piss easy to work on

Its only got one pedal..  

[StevepGT3]

Its only got one pedal..  

that`s the starter motor

[WOKA]

that`s the starter motor